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#308648 - 02/22/08 09:38 AM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Adveser]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
 Originally Posted By: Adveser
That is not to say that some of us haven't been confused at some point in their life, but if one must change any aspect of their behavior to be a Satanist, you aren't a Satanist.


If you change your behavoir to be a Satanist, then you are not one. Change of behavoir can be done because you've fallen into a bad habit. If essentially you revolve around the philosophy and in turn end up living as a Satanist you are one. Even Satanists make mistakes, some make worse mistakes than others. It's what you do about your mistakes that matters rather than the mistake(in most cases with the exceptions of rape or something of that nature). I know some things are just so unacceptably stupid that they would deny a person membership.

That's my understanding from what some of the Priests and Magisters have said.

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#308672 - 02/22/08 11:28 AM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
We do share 98% of it with chimps, but from there, how do you build a Satanist?

For example, Magister Nemo and I are both Satanists. But, each of us is different. So, how do you determine which traits or especially, which genes determined our Satanism, and which ones merely complemented it, or had no effect? That's tricky.

Then, you have to remember that the experiences we've had have also shaped us. Even having a supposedly pristine genetic code is no guarantee.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#308737 - 02/22/08 03:59 PM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
andy3004 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 90
Loc: Germany
 Originally Posted By: Autophilius
Greetings to all Satanists!
I have a question. I'd be grateful if you might take the time to answer.
I have been thinking about the slogan "Satanists are born not made".
Innate attributes are encoded in the DNA. As Satanists are a small minority, that would mean, that a Satanic character is encoded by one or, more likely, several recessive genes.


My view is that this has nothing to do with genetics and DNA. Certainly, the genes we inherent from our ancestors do have an influence on what we are. But what actually forms our 'personality' is based on what we experience in very early life.

The first two years of our life is the time when we are able to learn the most. It is the time when our physical brain is still malleable. It is the time and place where the identity of what we are is constructed.

However, during those first two years, we are utterly unable to exist on our own. So, while we have already been 'born' in a strict, physiological way, we are still not complete.

The things we experience and encounter in those primal years of our life, is what shapes the person we later become.

And I think it is this what those lines you mentioned are supposed to mean: Those foundations built in the early years of our lives are almost impossible to destroy later in our life.

Therefore, looking for some particular gene responsible for turning people into what they are or what they ain't is quite a futile endeavor, methinks.

ja ne,

-andy

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#308793 - 02/22/08 08:42 PM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: Autophilius
Oh, I didn't know, you could select your religion or opinion by just a deliberate decision with no regards how you feel about it. Hm, maybe some people do and are just playing theatre, and that's what LaVey meant, when he said, many so-called Christians are just faking, but in fact act Satanic? Did I understand you right?


What I'm saying is, a person CAN for example become a Buddhist, or a Catholic, or a Wiccan, or whatever, by 1) saying "I want to take this up as my religion", 2) accepting the metaphysical dogma on faith (this miracle happened, these deities exist, etc.), 3) adhering to the moral behavior codes (do this, don't do that), and 4) taking part in any required ceremonial duties such as a baptism, weekly services, and other rites.

In contrast, you don't become a Satanist via religous devotion. To quote the FAQ in the COS information pack, "To try is to lie". It doesn't start with "Gee, I really want to be a Satanist". We say right out that this religion isn't for everybody. Plus, there is no dogma in Satanism that is faith-based. There's a reason why the Statements are "Statements" and not "Commandments". And self-sacrifice is not part of Satanism. As for Satanic ceremonies, they are performed only when and as desired. So you can't be "made" into a Satanist the same way that one might be "made" into a Buddhist or Catholic.

 Quote:
As all other genetically coded attributes which don't show up in every generation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recessive_gene

Like I said earlier, we've seen Satanic couples who had offspring who weren't Satanists. Do I have to draw a Punett square? \:\)
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#308794 - 02/22/08 08:43 PM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
If evidence was found in DNA that set Satanist apart, and this was found to be missing from your own DNA, would you live your life any different?

Would a Satanist need any scientific evidence to justify the way they live on a daily basis?

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#308797 - 02/22/08 09:06 PM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Bill_M]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
You know, I actually drew a Satanic Punett square once, for fun. I couldn't decide if Satanism was dominant (S) or recessive (s), though.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#308842 - 02/23/08 04:52 AM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
Fenriz Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/25/05
Posts: 807
Loc: Washington
 Originally Posted By: Autophilius

Really? Don't we share 98% of it even with the monkeys?


Sharing 98% of DNA with chimps does not prove one way or another that Satanists share a genetic code.

To go back to something you said in your original post:

 Originally Posted By: Autophilius

If a person has the gene, that would be a better proof of her Satanic nature than membership or anything else.


Is there any need to prove or validate one's Satanic nature, or to prove or validate that one is a Satanist? No. Either you're a Satanist or you're not.


Edited by Fenriz (02/23/08 04:54 AM)

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#308880 - 02/23/08 10:53 AM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Satanists are born goes much further then you think.

True Satanic qualities can be measured by something called "Medichlorians" that are in our blood stream.

I hope that one day, testing will be necessary at birth. This way we can find potential Satanists, and train these younglings in the ways of Magic, so that we, the Satanic Community, may further smite our enemies, the Christians, the Jews, the Masons, the Illuminati, and the Seven Spears of Stegfalfadesh.

On a less silly note...


I think this statement "Satanists are born, not made." is simply...well, looked into a little too deeply. I find that is a common issue with many things 'round here, it gets read into just a little too much. It is good perhaps, to stimulate thought, but can be dangerous if it starts straying away from the statements original intention.

"Satanists are born, not made." is to me at least, extremely straight-forward. (as is the rest of TSB.) As Warlock Fenriz put it, you either are, or you're not. Whether it has anything to do with genetics, DNA, or any of that, is an interesting THOUGHT of course, but I don't think, a necessary one.

If you read TSB, point your finger and say, "That's me, that's me!" have no need to "adapt" the material presented, and don't have to change YOUR life to CALL yourself a Satanist, then, that's it. It is natural to you, always has been...thus, you were born that way.

One cannot go from a criminal god-believing, irrational moron, however, to "become" a full fledged Satanist. It won't happen, there is no point to even try. Many do, and WILL, of course, because "SATAN IS MY DRAK LORDS AND HE WILL BURN EVERHTING IN TEH FLAMES OF HELL HAIL SATIN!" but eventually, the fad might wear off...or at least, they won't get any recognition from the CoS, or any real Satanist out there.

Science is not necessary to prove those who ARE, from those who will never be.

Sometimes a quick browse through their Myspace page, or reading a few of their posts here can do that just fine \:\)

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#308944 - 02/23/08 03:52 PM what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Pleasure. ;\)
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#308950 - 02/23/08 04:05 PM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10129
It generally just means "If you ain't one you won't ever be one."

Genetics doesn't really have to enter the picture, though obviously there are genetic factors that could play into it.
_________________________
"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#308970 - 02/23/08 05:22 PM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
I'mPerfecting Offline


Registered: 02/03/08
Posts: 221
Loc: Florida
Do you plan to make a study of it ?

Is it something your curious to find out, or just want to converse about?

I wonder if it's just the strict physical phenomenon in the blood cell, or the circumstances of the environment in which we evolved.

As Bill_M pointed out with evolution in music certain things had to happen prior for things to be what they are. Like LaVey for example and the TSB. We all would have wound up as something else. ( I don't dear think what ).

Or looking a the state of society something else may well have come along to fill the void.

I think Phosis is right what your looking for is "mitochondria" an abnormality in the blood that causes "magic" an idea that inspired Parasite Eve, Akira, and Science to find the source in people that makes them special. So they could no doubt profit from this Mana and restore equality, or take over the world with super soldiers.

Hypothetically speaking of course.


Edited by Shandra Rose (02/23/08 08:06 PM)
Edit Reason: typo

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#308999 - 02/23/08 07:46 PM Sorry but... [Re: Autophilius]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
You really need to read up on it.

You are missing the critical point quite clearly.

Have fun!

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#309716 - 02/26/08 08:49 AM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: TheDegenerate]
Autophilius Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/14/07
Posts: 90
Loc: Germany
Good evening!

 Originally Posted By: Phosis
Satanists are born goes much further then you think.
True Satanic qualities can be measured by something called "Medichlorians" that are in our blood stream.


Lol! You're really great!

 Quote:

If you ... don't have to change YOUR life to CALL yourself a Satanist


Ah, that's the point! Thanks you for sharing your thoughts with me.
Thanks also the all the other people who replied to my postings, you were really a great help

Best wishes

Autophilius
_________________________
This sentence is a very clever slogan, which I have selected as My signature, because it's very appropiate to represent Myself and My attitude towards Satanism.

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#310051 - 02/27/08 11:47 AM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Autophilius]
Empiricist Offline
Banned

Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 14
I think the "satanists are born not made" is a slogan and just a slogan. A piece of satanic propaganda appealing to us satanists because in the end of the day we have all become interested in satanism for personal gain and due to egocentricity. Any subjective perspective (in my subjective perspective hehe)is shaped by our experiences. For instance LaVey himself was quoted as saying "I am a Christian refugee", suggesting that his views on christianity (which are some of the defining characteristics of Satanism) were shaped by his past experiences! So satanists are made not born and we should all be weary of propaganda in every avenue of our life even those which we think to be our refuge.

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#310054 - 02/27/08 12:03 PM Re: Satanists are born not made - what follows from this? [Re: Empiricist]
Magister_Harris Offline

CoS Magister

Registered: 07/01/01
Posts: 1851
Loc: Long Island
Could you make it any more obvious that you're here looking to pick a fight with people?
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Hail the Citizens of the Infernal Empire!
Hail Satan!
Magister David Harris
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http://www.hatespeechradio.com

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