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Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: RaSc] #309863
02/27/08 02:12 AM
02/27/08 02:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 192
Colonel Kurtz Offline
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Colonel Kurtz  Offline
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Posts: 192
Your signature on the contract is really all that matters.

Also a bonus check in the mail helps.

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Colonel Kurtz] #309870
02/27/08 02:20 AM
02/27/08 02:20 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 485
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RaSc Offline
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You are correct, sir. ;\)

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: RaSc] #309892
02/27/08 03:31 AM
02/27/08 03:31 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 33
Durham, NC
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Bizzaam Offline
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Bizzaam  Offline
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Durham, NC
When I reenlisted in 2007 (Air Force), there were two people in the room. When the officer reached the last line of the oath, I put my hand down and smiled. It didn't take much to comprehend that I wasn't going to say it. As far as I could tell, no feelings were hurt, not that I cared about that anyway. Remember if anyone gives you grief about not saying it, there is always your Military Equal Opportunity office or an equivalent for your branch of service that will back you up for any type of discrimination.

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker] #309933
02/27/08 06:12 AM
02/27/08 06:12 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 1,015
Haysville, KS.
Citizen Jonesy Offline
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Citizen Jonesy  Offline
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Haysville, KS.
So Help Me God=So help me Jonesy. ;\)


Heel Setuon!
veqlargh rI'!
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Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker] #309987
02/27/08 12:32 PM
02/27/08 12:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 68
Canada
Remo razz Offline
Remo razz  Offline

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 68
Canada
I have been in the Canadian military for almost 20 years. I know for a fact that there is other kind of "oaths". They involve loyalty to your government, sovereign or what ever rules the country you are in.

It all comes down to this: they are just words and don't mean the same for everyone... To you, when you say them, what do they mean? I pledged allegiance to god, dont you? I love my god and I treat him with respect, my god would like to eat breakfast right now...

Cheers

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Bizzaam] #309990
02/27/08 12:56 PM
02/27/08 12:56 PM
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RaSc Offline
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RaSc  Offline
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Those are good avenues of defense... if you can prove that you are being harassed because of your religion. The difficult thing is proving it.

BTZ boards, EPRs, Quarterly award packages, job positions, etc. can all be affected by such a thing as someone not liking you. You won't be told that it is because of your religious preference (to say so would be idiotic), but it can and does happen.

Disfavor can be shown in any number of ways - all unprovable to the MEO.

Consider yourself fortunate that the officer didn't care. There are those who can and will cause damage. Believe it or not, but officers are not immune to juvenile, herdish behavior.

Consider the OTS application (AF Form 56): The religious preference was removed from the form for obvious reasons. However, you are required to include your VMPF record, which includes your religious preference. The board scores are not releasable to the public or applicant. The Colonels who rate your package don't have to justify their decisions so their own religious bias can play free if they so allow.

You give them too much credit, sir.

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: RaSc] #310200
02/28/08 03:07 AM
02/28/08 03:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 192
Colonel Kurtz Offline
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Colonel Kurtz  Offline
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Posts: 192
My policy when dealing with these matters, goes like this, "Don't ask! Don't tell!" It works for gay service members, if followed properly.

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Colonel Kurtz] #310418
02/28/08 10:27 PM
02/28/08 10:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
Metairie, Louisiana
Mister Breaker Offline OP
Mister Breaker  Offline OP

Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 4
Metairie, Louisiana
Thank you all much for your input. I really appreciate it. Bizzaam, I thought your idea was good enough that I used it, and much the same as you, I put my hand down and smiled. There was a few seconds of silence until the Major administering the oath realised I wasn't going to say the last part. In the end it all worked out anyways because like VonDeth said, my signature was already on the contract. Anyways, again, than you all for you input.

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker] #310447
02/29/08 12:10 AM
02/29/08 12:10 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 192
Colonel Kurtz Offline
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Colonel Kurtz  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 192
GIVE 'EM HELL!

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Colonel Kurtz] #310478
02/29/08 01:22 AM
02/29/08 01:22 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 100
North Carolina
Hixem Offline
Hixem  Offline

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 100
North Carolina
When I reenlisted (US Army), I spoke the words but didn't really give them must thought. I didn't feel that I was swearing fealty to God. To me it was just the comfortable trappings of ceremony that is so familiar in many military functions.

A close friend of mine, who is a charismatic Christian, asked the officer performing his reenlistment to omit the "so help me God" phrase at the end of the oath for religious reasons. To him, it seemed blasphemous to use God to affirm an earthly promise.

The officer performing the ceremony had no problem dropping the last bit. The ceremony is really for the enlistee and the unit. It is more esprit de corps than a contractual requirement. Your signature is what the Corps is really concerned with.

If you're concerned with exposure, simply ask to officer to drop the clause because, for religious reasons, you don't think its appropriate to use God's name that way. Let him interpret that as reverance for God if he wishes. You'll have the ceremony celebrating your commitment to service for another hitch without any of the conflicts of conscience, and it shouldn't really raise any red flags causing undue scrutiny to your religious beliefs.

And thank you for your service.


Be the White Rabbit.
Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Colonel Kurtz] #310483
02/29/08 01:39 AM
02/29/08 01:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 485
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RaSc Offline
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RaSc  Offline
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Posts: 485
PA
My policy is to play Devil's advocate from time to time.

I never thought about just smiling and not saying anything. That's a good idea - not fun, but effective.

Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: RaSc] #310493
02/29/08 02:15 AM
02/29/08 02:15 AM
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 192
Colonel Kurtz Offline
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Colonel Kurtz  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 192
"And now you know! And knowing is half the battle!"

(This was typed with the G.I. Joe theme song Playing in my head)

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