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#309809 - 02/26/08 05:21 PM Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment
Mister Breaker Offline


Registered: 12/26/07
Posts: 4
Loc: Metairie, Louisiana
I have a question as it pertains to both the Oath of Enlistment for the Armed Forces, and the Oath of Office as it pertains to Law Enforcement or any public official. I've spent the last 16 years in the Marines and am getting ready to enlist in the Louisiana National Guard. In addition to that, in a few months time, I will be swearing in as a Deputy Sheriff, also in Louisiana. I not sure if there are any other members of the military or public office here, if there are maybe they can help, but my question is in regards to the last four words of both these oaths; 'so help me god'. Being a Satanist, I can't swear an oath to a god I don't believe in, so how do I handle that part? I've been considering simply shutting my mouth when it comes time to recite that part. Anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

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#309814 - 02/26/08 05:33 PM Your god [Re: Mister Breaker]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: Mister Breaker
Being a Satanist, I can't swear an oath to a god I don't believe in, so how do I handle that part?


Is there a god you do believe in?

Hint: "As Satanists, we are I-theists". ;\)
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#309818 - 02/26/08 05:51 PM You call that a "hint"??? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12572
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Might as well tell him to look in the mirror!

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#309820 - 02/26/08 05:53 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2208
If that's what you have to say in order to advance in your desired field then by all means do it.

It doesn't mean you really have to believe in this "god". It's just a word. ;\)
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#309821 - 02/26/08 05:58 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
What do you have to lose?

If swearing by a non-existing entity helps you get a job, go ahead.

It's like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. Even people who don't believe in "blessings" can do it, because it's just a commonly established ritual that had become part of good manners.
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
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#309822 - 02/26/08 05:59 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Pay lip service to God.

It's hardly going to affect you, or at least it shouldn't and, it will curtail any problems you are likely to have if you 'take a stand'. It's important to understand that there is no 'us v.s. them' dynamic in Satanism and, there is no tribunal of Satanists to rain down fiery punishment on your head for playing 'by the rules' of 'polite' society.

Pride, is only as good as the positive change it produces for you. When pride begins to interfere in a negative manner you can be assured that counter-productive pride is looming on the horizon.
_________________________
"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a personís faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#309823 - 02/26/08 06:00 PM Re: You call that a "hint"??? [Re: Nemo]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: Nemo
Might as well tell him to look in the mirror!


Now you know why the kids like it when Uncle Roho hides the eggs.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#309824 - 02/26/08 06:02 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Old_Pig]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: Tha_Pig

It's like saying "bless you" when someone sneezes. Even people who don't believe in "blessings" can do it, because it's just a commonly established ritual that had become part of good manners.


I say "Bless you" when someone sneezes.
Someone once thought they "got me" and said, "Aha! And WHO are you asking to bless me?"
I said, "Me".
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#309834 - 02/26/08 06:44 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
 Originally Posted By: Mister Breaker
Being a Satanist, I can't swear an oath to a god I don't believe in...


You said the oath a few times in sixteen years. Why stop now? I've said the oath three times, and all I could think was, "hurry up! Please."

Don't let minor obstacles prevent what may be a worth while career.

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#309838 - 02/26/08 06:49 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
I like what Tha_Pig stated about if it gets you into a good career. Dr. LaVey said it "it's allright to conform to someone else's standards as long as it ultimately benefits YOU".

When I joined the service we had the option to say "I hereby AFFIRM", for those who didn't want to say "GOD" or "SWEAR".

A funny side note to the ritual of saying "Bless you", when people say that to me I always reply- "Too Late!".

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#309840 - 02/26/08 06:54 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: DickSteele]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
 Originally Posted By: DickSteele
When I joined the service we had the option to say "I hereby AFFIRM", for those who didn't want to say "GOD" or "SWEAR".


That was a long time ago.

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#309847 - 02/26/08 07:24 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Colonel Kurtz]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
1993

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#309850 - 02/26/08 07:40 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: DickSteele]
Colonel Kurtz Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/09/07
Posts: 192
1994. The oath seems longer now.

I'll be repeating the oath for a fourth time 18 MAR 08.

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#309854 - 02/26/08 07:50 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Colonel Kurtz]
ConquerOrPerish Offline


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 228
Loc: DC Metro Area
they should make a "men of satanism" calendar


Edited by ConquerOrPerish (02/26/08 07:50 PM)
_________________________
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#309859 - 02/26/08 08:02 PM Re: Armed Forces and the Oath of Enlistment [Re: Mister Breaker]
RaSc Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/17/07
Posts: 484
Loc: PA
 Quote:
I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same. That I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.


You also swear to defend the Constitution and part of that is the first amendment. Interesting, isn't it?

My take on the oath (16 years Air Force) is that it is easy enough to recite it all. Every bit of the oath is binding and punishable if I fail to perform... except the last part. There are no lightening bolts that strike, no judgment forever more. The last part is a guilt trap to act as a catch all. You see, the majority will falter if they attempt to circumvent the oath because they believe in some sort of deity. I do not - therefore saying the last part is meaningless whether I say it or not.

I do, however, say it all because the officer swearing me in is most likely a Christian who can cause waves. Others might disagree with my thought process, but I am not concerned. Either way I walk away with a smile on my face and they are none the wiser.

Or...

You could say Dog and say it was a Freudian slip if asked.

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