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#312109 - 03/04/08 10:37 PM Re: Question concerning "Greater Magic" [Re: Nemo]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Very finely put, Magister Nemo!
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#312141 - 03/05/08 12:23 AM Re: Question concerning "Greater Magic" [Re: Nemo]
AurEum Offline
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Registered: 11/16/07
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Loc: Australia
Thank you for taking the time to write that. It was a pleasure to read.
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#312195 - 03/05/08 09:31 AM Re: Question concerning "Greater Magic" [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline


Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1644
Loc: 611 Calif. St.
 Quote:
If you apply Lesser Magic effectively you may never find any need for Greater Magic at all. Ever.



Magister Nemo I have a question in respects to this particular subject.

Would you say that the more capabilities in Lesser Magic are aquired the more potential and depth in the capabilites of Greater Magic can be possessed? What I mean is, the better someone is at Lesser Magic the more in depth they can utilize Greater Magic? The Balance Factor comes to mind.
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#312203 - 03/05/08 10:23 AM One possible answer concerning "Greater Magic". [Re: Unknown]
Linguascelesta Offline

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Posts: 2352
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 Quote:
Magister Nemo I have a question in respects to this particular subject.

Would you say that the more capabilities in Lesser Magic are aquired the more potential and depth in the capabilites of Greater Magic can be possessed? What I mean is, the better someone is at Lesser Magic the more in depth they can utilize Greater Magic?


While I'm not Magister Nemo, I'd like to add a response, if I may, for what it's worth:

Lesser Magic could be described as "applied mind control techniques".

Can you see how this might be beneficial for the practice and application of Greater Magic?

I certainly can

I don't think this was entirely the point to which Magister Nemo was alluding, however.

He will clarify further though, I'm sure.

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#312206 - 03/05/08 10:31 AM Re: One possible answer concerning "Greater Magic". [Re: Linguascelesta]
Unknown Offline


Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1644
Loc: 611 Calif. St.
Makes sense. ;\)

Thanks for the response Warlock!
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#312213 - 03/05/08 10:58 AM Re: Question concerning "Greater Magic" [Re: Nemo]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
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Registered: 03/10/05
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Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: Nemo


If you apply Lesser Magic effectively you may never find any need for Greater Magic at all. Ever.




I agree!
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#312268 - 03/05/08 01:42 PM Re: Question concerning "Greater Magic" [Re: Unknown]
Bill_M Offline
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Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11460
Loc: New England, USA
Again, this question wasn't addressed to me either, but...

 Originally Posted By: Unknown
Would you say that the more capabilities in Lesser Magic are aquired the more potential and depth in the capabilites of Greater Magic can be possessed?

In short, I'd say no. Despite a few overlaps, I think these two fields ultimately require two completely different skill sets.

I've seen some people who just had a natrual knack for lesser magic, but were way too self-conscious to be able to put themselves in the necessary intellectual decompression mindset for the ritual chamber. And I've done rituals with some people who were incredibly commanding in front of the altar, possessing a natural aptitude for ceremonial expression, but in real life were just too socially retarded to get their lesser magic together. In short, I've seen some who "get" The Satanic Witch but not The Satanic Rituals, and vice versa.

Again, there are some overlaps of sorts: understanding the balance factor, charisma (especially for group rituals), etc. But excelling at one is no guarantee that you'll excel at the other.
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#312285 - 03/05/08 03:05 PM I do not have to say so. [Re: Unknown]
Nemo Offline
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Registered: 10/06/02
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Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
 Quote:
Would you say that the more capabilities in Lesser Magic are aquired the more potential and depth in the capabilites of Greater Magic can be possessed?


I do not have to say so.

Anton LaVey already said so:

 Quote:
"The more readily one can apply the principles needed to effect a proficiency in Lesser Magic, the greater one's chances of attaining through the use of ritual - or ceremonial - magic." -page 21 of The Satanic Rituals


But read it in context. Context is always everything.

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#312295 - 03/05/08 03:33 PM Re: One possible answer concerning "Greater Magic". [Re: Unknown]
Nemo Offline
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Registered: 10/06/02
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Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I agree with Warlock Linguascelesta.

As I keep mentioning, context is everything.

If your mastery of Lesser Magic causes you to rigidly deny the possibility of Greater Magic actually working to produce results in the external world, then that would tend to undercut the principle of being able to truly suspend your disbelief for performing Greater Magic in the first place. You could enjoy ceremonial ritual and perhaps benefit from psychodrama for its own sake, but attempting real magic would be difficult and probably pointless.

For example, Penn & Teller seem to have a vested interest in debunking the possibility of Greater Magic actually working. They are both fantastic masters of Lesser Magic. However their need to prove a non-magical worldview undercuts the possibility that (1) they would ever seriously attempt such a thing or (2) being able to pull it off even if they did try.

However is that really a problem for them? Are they not both entirely successful, world-renowned entertainers?

So this example points to the issue I personally hold to be true. Those attracted to the practice of Greater Magic are those who are attracted to the mysteries of life more than just the results they would normally desire in life. Lesser Magic can address almost all of these normally desired results with greater ease and faster reliability.

I would never choose to try to argue with someone who feels that real magic is just bunk any more than I would try to argue a dog into acting like a cat.

Satanism throws a wide net over all of these issues and for the Satanist there is plenty of choice. This flexibility is enjoyable and in accord with the nature of each of us.

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#312342 - 03/05/08 06:38 PM Re: One possible answer concerning "Greater Magic". [Re: Nemo]
fire_vixen Offline


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 90
Magister Nemo, just want to say that I am really looking forward to reading your new book. Magic is quite an interesting topic.

However I don't know if Greater Magic is harder than Lesser.
For me, Lesser Magic is probably at least as hard.

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#312364 - 03/05/08 08:54 PM Re: One possible answer concerning "Greater Magic". [Re: fire_vixen]
Nemo Offline
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That's interesting. Why do you think so?

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#312445 - 03/06/08 08:36 AM Re: One possible answer concerning "Greater Magic". [Re: Nemo]
capistrano Offline


Registered: 10/18/07
Posts: 37
Loc: Baguio City, Philippines
"I've seen some people who just had a natrual knack for lesser magic, but were way too self-conscious to be able to put themselves in the necessary intellectual decompression mindset for the ritual chamber. And I've done rituals with some people who were incredibly commanding in front of the altar, possessing a natural aptitude for ceremonial expression, but in real life were just too socially retarded to get their lesser magic together." -Bill_M

This answers a lot, really. Thank you for giving out this answer. And thank you for having asked your question, Unknown. Very helpful reads. \:\)
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#312479 - 03/06/08 12:12 PM Re: One possible answer concerning "Greater Magic". [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline


Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1644
Loc: 611 Calif. St.
Wow Magister Nemo, thanks for the expanded answer.

This inborn potential you speak of, I think I know what you mean.

The grammar school I attended was built over an Indian burial ground. I was always curious about this so I would find myself going into the bathroom and turning the lights off staring into the mirror. I would almost project my feelings into the mirror and would experience emotional sensations. I don't know if that could be considered as an indicator about what you're speaking of but I know as a child, I was always curious about the mysteries of this world.

I really am looking forward to your book.
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#312480 - 03/06/08 12:21 PM Re: Question concerning "Greater Magic" [Re: Bill_M]
Unknown Offline


Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1644
Loc: 611 Calif. St.
 Quote:
Again, there are some overlaps of sorts: understanding the balance factor, charisma (especially for group rituals), etc. But excelling at one is no guarantee that you'll excel at the other.


I see.

I suppose depending on the nature of the Ritual, it does offer another question then. Once a Ritual is done and the results begin to manifest, how would one without Lesser Magic be able to handle such results?

An example: "Johnny" doesn't have a job. So "Johnny" stmbles upon The Satanic Bible/Rituals and gives it a go to secure a job. He fills out a few applications and then lands a job. Not just any job but a job he Ritualize in specific.

How would "Johnny" be able to appreciate the results if he doesn't have the Lesser Magic capabilities to keep it or enhance it? Or would the Ritual then be a complete failure because he wouldn't be able to handle the results?

I hope this question makes some sense.
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#312481 - 03/06/08 12:26 PM Re: One possible answer concerning "Greater Magic". [Re: capistrano]
Unknown Offline


Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1644
Loc: 611 Calif. St.
 Quote:
This answers a lot, really. Thank you for giving out this answer. And thank you for having asked your question, Unknown. Very helpful reads.


You're welcome.

Learning is such an essential element, especially when it comes to Greater Magic!
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