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#315349 - 03/17/08 02:27 PM Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
We men are familiar with the situation. We go out, we get drunk, get beer goggles, and then come on to a girl who we probably wouldn't have were we sober. The next morning we think "What the Hell did I do?" Then all our friends laugh at us and it's called a questionable hook up if our friends happen to be nice. However, when the exact same situation happens with a woman it's called rape.

I've found that about 75% of women feel that, if a woman drinks and then sleeps with a guy, he took advantage of her and it's rape. It doesn't matter if he was drunk, sober, or whatever. I think this is just a blatant example of people in our country passing off the responsibility for their own actions.

Let me head off the "what ifs" that always come up in this sensitive subject. What if a guy slips a drug or roofie in her drink? That's rape. What if she's so drunk she's passed out? That's rape. I'm not talking about any of these situations. I'm talking about a situation in which a woman knowingly and intentionally gets drunk or high and then comes on to a guy. My personal feeling is that, in that situation, the woman needs to take responsibility for her own decisions and actions.

I've also heard the argument that alcohol makes women horny so they can't be held responsible for what they do when they drink. Ask any man whether we get horny or not when we're drunk. You'll get a pretty consistent answer.

Why does this bother me and what is the relation to Satanism? Satanism is all about taking responsibility for your life and control of it. Also, this double standard sets back women's rights. It gives the idea that women are weaker than men mentally and aren't as capable of making decisions under the influence of drugs or alcohol as men are. As long as double standards like this continue to exist, sexism will continue to exist.

I'm interesting in hearing what other people think of this situation. I realize that it's a sensitive and emotional subject, but I do ask that responses be well thought out and rational.

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#315353 - 03/17/08 02:46 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
The responsible thing would be not to go out and get drunk then sleep with people you don't know, and don't let anyone who's drunk sleep with you before you know them!

The worst kinds of woman are in clubs and bars, avoid them.

The best kind of woman wont go out unless they're going out with friends and then they wont be interested with beered up guys talking crap at them when they're trying to enjoy themselves.

No matter what kind of guy you are you will be put in that category even if you aren't drunk.

Don't complain about things you need not subject yourself too, thats what I think this relates to in regards Satanism.

Sorry but I haven't ever been in this situation, I have checked a woman out in a club but never took it further than that but I have asked around about her and got to know her friends to even think about a sexual or any other relationship.

Join a book club or go to night school if you have it, the quality of woman there is far beyond a drunken night out.

Clubs are in my experience a "meat market" if all you want is meat thats an excellent place for it, but don't expect the meat to be intelligent.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#315356 - 03/17/08 02:57 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Evergreen Offline


Registered: 02/27/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Britannia
The social scenario that you describe is one that allows women to claim rape, yet inhibits a man to do the same thing when faced with the same situation. You say that this suggests women are weaker. Women are swimming with the current on this one I'm afraid - and this makes them stronger.


Edited by Evergreen (03/17/08 03:25 PM)
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#315359 - 03/17/08 03:09 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: shadowraven213]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I've been in this particular situation, but the girls who had been drinking were girls who I had known from before, not strangers from a bar. Neither of them accused me of taking advantage of them, but I confided a personal situation involving one of them to a female friend of mine and was strongly admonished about taking advantage of this girl even though she came on to me and it still took her an hour and a half (during which she was with me and not drinking) before I went to bed with her! I agree with avoiding the women at bars and clubs and I don't usually go to those anyway. Still, I didn't mean this post as a commentary on my personal experience, but as a more general commentary on society, responsibility, and sexism in general.

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#315361 - 03/17/08 03:15 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
Responsibility can start with going out and not getting so drunk that you don't know what you did the night before.
This is far from being responsible, it's weak and stupid and thus very un-Satanic.
Smart decisions will never be made under the influence of alcohol and drugs... not by man and not by woman.
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#315363 - 03/17/08 03:20 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Well I think you have your answer there, society is not responsible and anyone can be sexist.

In fact people have had a lot longer to be subtle about being sexist so they can hide it better than say racism, thats why most people are shocked when they find out someone is sexist.

Think about it's the oldest conflict, that of men versus women.

Of course there are things women can get away with and men cant, thats just the way things are.

Unless you are a Satanist and you know exactly how these things can be used by people and by yourself to your own advantage, then the games become interesting to exploit.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

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#315364 - 03/17/08 03:22 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
These topics are so unnecessary.

I have some questions for you.

Why bother discussing a topic that is outright common sense? Why bother discussing WHO should be responsible and WHY they should, when they probably won't anyways? Why bother "making sense" of something that only the stupid would have to attempt to "make sense" OF in the first place?

"We men" also sounds like your referring to something I am NOT familiar with. Being generalized in your definition of what being a man unfairly stereotypes men as that which they are unfairly depicted of on a regular basis. (football watching beer drinking retards, which me, and all of my male friends, are NOT.) I am unfortunately, not familiar with being an idiot who gets wasted, and hits on girls who I wouldn't normally fuck on a bet. If I did sleep with a girl who my "friends" did not agree was "hot", I wouldn't give a shit about that in the first place. I have standards that are important to ME, I don't care what anyone else thinks about said standards.

This subject is as over-discussed as it is pointless. Don't let it bother you, just don't be an idiot; don't worry about what the other idiots are doing.



Edited by Phosis (03/17/08 03:24 PM)

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#315365 - 03/17/08 03:25 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: shadowraven213]
Nicolette Offline


Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 192
Loc: Deutschland
The only guys who make it a point to complain about this are guys who like to complain about women in general anyways.
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#315366 - 03/17/08 03:26 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
C.F. Kane Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 257
Loc: Bat City
 Quote:
We men are familiar with the situation. We go out, we get drunk, get beer goggles, and then come on to a girl who we probably wouldn't have were we sober. The next morning we think "What the Hell did I do?" Then all our friends laugh at us and it's called a questionable hook up if our friends happen to be nice.


Please do not assume that all men are this brutish, idiotic, and alcoholic. This is a truly moronic way to open a post.

 Quote:
However, when the exact same situation happens with a woman it's called rape.


Since when?

 Quote:
I've found that about 75% of women feel that, if a woman drinks and then sleeps with a guy, he took advantage of her and it's rape.


Do you know, and did you ask all women?

Judging by your post I'd assume the women you know drink about as much as the men you know, is this correct?

 Quote:
Let me head off the "what ifs" that always come up in this sensitive subject. What if a guy slips a drug or roofie in her drink? That's rape. What if she's so drunk she's passed out? That's rape.


Geez, thanks so much for the clarification. [Sighs, extremely relieved.]

 Quote:
I've also heard the argument that alcohol makes women horny so they can't be held responsible for what they do when they drink. Ask any man whether we get horny or not when we're drunk. You'll get a pretty consistent answer.


"Pretty consistent," eh? Well, that's good enough for me. I say, "let's burn the bastards!!!"

 Quote:
Also, this double standard sets back women's rights. It gives the idea that women are weaker than men mentally and aren't as capable of making decisions under the influence of drugs or alcohol as men are. As long as double standards like this continue to exist, sexism will continue to exist.


No, actually, you do by posting this ignorant dribble.

People of all shapes, sizes, and colors fail to take responsibility for their actions everyday. Should we be ranting and raving about it? Should WE the reponsible ones start whining about double standards? Like, "It's not FAIR, I HAVE health insurance, and I PAY my taxes. It's not FAIR that I pay into the system and only to see others with LESS drive and vitality REAP the benefits of MY hard work. WHAH! WHAH! WHAH!"

If it really bothers you try DOING something about it.
_________________________
"This is my body which is broken for you, this do in remembrance of me." - I Cor. 11:24

"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

"Maybe I'll make some teeth and whiskers." -C.F. Kane


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#315368 - 03/17/08 03:30 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Unknown User Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1511
If you have to rely on drugs( yes, alcohol is a drug) for dates/trysts then don't complain about the lack of quality you get.

I don't drink and really don't associate with those that do.

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#315369 - 03/17/08 03:51 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: Unknown User]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
I am no prude. I enjoy a gin and tonic from time to time, or a Strongbow. But to get thrashed, drink twenty beers, and slobber all over some poor girl is not becoming of me, by any means.

I don't go to bars because they are filled with the kind of people I would sooner toss into a fire then share a conversation with.

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#315371 - 03/17/08 03:55 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
 Originally Posted By: ModernTantalus
We men are familiar with the situation. We go out, we get drunk, get beer goggles, and then come on to a girl who we probably wouldn't have were we sober.


Hmmmmm, not seeing a lot of myself in this statement, it must be said.

Checks inside underwear

Yep, testicles definitely present.

 Quote:
I've found that about 75% of women feel that, if a woman drinks and then sleeps with a guy, he took advantage of her and it's rape. It doesn't matter if he was drunk, sober, or whatever. I think this is just a blatant example of people in our country passing off the responsibility for their own actions.


Your circle of female friends clearly consists of women who want to act like sluts but don't like being called one. My female friends are happy to indulge their sexualities without calling date rape on their post-shag mistakes. Guess which group is taking responsibility for their actions?

 Quote:
I'm interesting in hearing what other people think of this situation. I realize that it's a sensitive and emotional subject, but I do ask that responses be well thought out and rational.


I'm really not sure what response you expected to get. You seem to presume that a lot of people here (even the majority) fit some of your assumptions about what male and female behaviour should be. As you can see from the responses this isn't the case. As a man who doesn't drink and therefore only has himself to blame when his dick does the thinking for him I don't really relate to much of what you say, nor do I really care about the people who do (drunken fuckwits that they would be). Indeed, as has been made clear by others, who is taking less responsibility? The slutty wannabe women or the men who let themselves be hauled into court by spurious date rape charges because they didn't drink sensibly?

Finally I think your attempt to define date rape is pretty crude and doesn't really do the subject justice. Actual date rape (or indeed conventional rape) can be a complex issue and not simply a "oh my god what did I sleep with last night?" reaction.
_________________________
All Hail Satan, for I shall ever be his mouth in this blessed and righteous Kingdom of the United!

"Don't you see? If the gays can get married then the whole institution of marriage will be destroyed! Society will crumble! Rivers will run red with blood! And Nazis will walk the earth riding dinosaurs!" Princess Clara, the unsung voice of the Christian right.

www.vampiretemple.com - are you one of us?

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#315372 - 03/17/08 03:57 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
75% of women are absolutely fruity-buggo. It's why I tend to prefer the company of men, with only a few notable exceptions. (And yes, you were generalizing, and so am I.)

I tend to believe that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If a man can reasonably be expected to bounce back from (or, even better, avoid!) an ill-advised or poorly-thought-out sexual encounter, then so can a woman. If a certain act is legitimately considered rape, or, to a lesser degree, coercion or trickery, when done to a woman, then it probably ought to be considered the same when done to a man.

If you want to be considered a respectable adult human being who is equal to other respected and respectable adult human beings, you have to act like it, through and through, and hold yourself to the same standards to which those others are held.


Edited by TrojZyr (03/17/08 04:09 PM)
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"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#315373 - 03/17/08 03:58 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: Scion]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Agreed. Thank you Scion, for bringing a little more sense into a senseless potential debate...as well as the "third side" (Not a guy who digs chicks, not a chick who digs guys.) that we so prominently seek to find.

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#315376 - 03/17/08 04:04 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: TheDegenerate]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
 Originally Posted By: Phosis
Agreed. Thank you Scion, for bringing a little more sense into a senseless potential debate...as well as the "third side" (Not a guy who digs chicks, not a chick who digs guys.) that we so prominently seek to find.


You're welcome Phosis, although I'd point out that men as myself aren't that hard to find (check the notches on my bedpost for evidence of that).
_________________________
All Hail Satan, for I shall ever be his mouth in this blessed and righteous Kingdom of the United!

"Don't you see? If the gays can get married then the whole institution of marriage will be destroyed! Society will crumble! Rivers will run red with blood! And Nazis will walk the earth riding dinosaurs!" Princess Clara, the unsung voice of the Christian right.

www.vampiretemple.com - are you one of us?

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