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#315377 - 03/17/08 04:09 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: Scion]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Fair enough.

I can't relate to the notches on the bedpost...though I did have a spider killing bokken for when I lived in a friends basement. Racked up damn near 100 notches on that thing...spiders as big as the palm of your hand, no shit.

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#315378 - 03/17/08 04:09 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: TrojZyr]
sjuk Offline


Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 9
Loc: W. Yorkshire, United Kingdom
I agree with you TrojZyr.

If a woman can not act responsibly they do not deserve respect, especially when it involves alcohol and sex.

This does also apply to men aswell, if they can not act responsibly then they do not deserve any respect either.

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#315386 - 03/17/08 04:53 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
I can proudly say that the scenario you've described is one that I've never experienced.
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#315387 - 03/17/08 05:08 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: C.F. Kane]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
My original generalization about men was made to demonstrate a specific situation. I'm not a large drinker, but in the US at least the phenomena of questionable hook ups and beer goggles is common enough that, even if you're not a guy who gets drunk and sleeps with anything that moves, you're probably familiar with that situation and have heard of it at some point.

As far as doing something about it goes... What would you propose I do other than make other's aware of the situation, initiate intelligent debate about it, and provide an opportunity for other's to examine the situation and how people feel about it?

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#315391 - 03/17/08 05:15 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Nicolette Offline


Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 192
Loc: Deutschland
Since Satanism advocates indulgence and NOT compulsion, I can imagine that you just picked the wrong crowd for a discussion like this. I would propose you ask the sort of people who wear beer goggles, sleep with people and later regret it, and then instigate law suits over the matter.
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#315396 - 03/17/08 05:19 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
Thanks for the responses so far. I'd like to take this point to clarify some of my generalizations. I'm not saying here that all guys are alcoholic hornballs with no respect for women, but the situation that I initiate my post with is common enough and, in the USA at least, present enough in pop culture, that we're all aware that it happens.

When I say that 75% of women feel a certain why what I'm refering to is people who the conversation has come up with for whatever reason. I don't expect the responses here to be typical of the majority of people which is why I specifically bring the topic up here.

The effects of ethanol on sex drive (and, unfortunately, performance) are well established and physiological in nature in both men and women. To claim that ethanol consumption won't increase sexual desire is to demonstrate an ignorance of physiology. While I'm on the topic of ignorance, ethanol is the technical name for drinking alcohol.

What initially started me thinking about this subject wasn't a personal situation, but something I saw on Dateline or some such show a few years back. A college guy slept with a drunk girl who came on to him in his dorm. At least, that was his claim. The next day she accused him of taking advantage of her drunkenness although her was also intoxicated. Her and the feminist group on campus banded together to protest and try to get the university to expel him and the local prosecutor to press charges. The issue wasn't resolved at the time this program aired, but it did make me think of how a man can get dragged into a situation like that and have his life ruined. Since then the topic has come up from time to time in my own life.

I seek feedback here for a couple reasons. 1.) The people here are, I would hope, of above average intelligence and have a strong sense of personal responsibility. 2.) Awareness and open discussion of social problems is the only way to change them. Communicating ideas is the only way of resolving social problems unless you control a large army and don't mind killing dissidents.


Edited by ModernTantalus (03/17/08 05:20 PM)

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#315397 - 03/17/08 05:19 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
x9x Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/10/04
Posts: 958
Loc: Flanders - Europe
You can tell on the reactions so far that a lot here are not interested in hanging around and meeting up or sleeping with drunk/stoned losers, right? How is this important for you to examine?
You want to initiate an intelligent debate? Pick another subject!
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#315398 - 03/17/08 05:21 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: shadowraven213]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
Ah... A pragmatic approach. Very respectable.

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#315399 - 03/17/08 05:22 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
ConquerOrPerish Offline


Registered: 11/29/07
Posts: 228
Loc: DC Metro Area
 Originally Posted By: ModernTantalus
Also, this double standard sets back women's rights. It gives the idea that women are weaker than men mentally and aren't as capable of making decisions under the influence of drugs or alcohol as men are. As long as double standards like this continue to exist, sexism will continue to exist.


It also passes along the double standard that women aren't that sexual. You can't say you're sexy and sexual, you're in control of your body, you deserve freedom, and then run to the Women's Center crying because someone say "nice legs". LaVey wanted his witches to be with as many or as few men/women as they wanted. He was both for sexuals and asexuals.
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"Making a difference makes sense only if you are convinced that you have mastered the subject at hand to the point where any difference you might make would be for the better." -Thomas Sowell


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#315401 - 03/17/08 05:26 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
C.F. Kane Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 257
Loc: Bat City
 Quote:
I'm not a large drinker, but in the US at least the phenomena of questionable hook ups and beer goggles is common enough that, even if you're not a guy who gets drunk and sleeps with anything that moves, you're probably familiar with that situation and have heard of it at some point.


Okay, you have established an assumption that I am aware that idiots sometimes get drunk and behave in a dubious fashion.

 Quote:
As far as doing something about it goes... What would you propose I do other than make other's aware of the situation, initiate intelligent debate about it, and provide an opportunity for other's to examine the situation and how people feel about it?


Now, you would have me become more aware of that which I am already "probably" familiar with. Also, intelligent debate requires intelligent input from both sides. Not, "drunk chicks are lame."

That aside, what a welcome opportunity to examine people perpetuating a cycle of irresponsibility!

Boy, I just can't thank you enough for this RARE and pleasant experience. You should totally teach a "fox trap" awareness class, because, like, totally EVERY ONE of my bro's and dudes I know has had to chew their own arm of at one point. Cuz, like, you know dude, you get wasted and, like, shit happens.

Party on, Dude!

You can do better.
_________________________
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"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

"Maybe I'll make some teeth and whiskers." -C.F. Kane


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#315404 - 03/17/08 05:33 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: C.F. Kane]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
If your responses are going to be sarcastic and provide nothing of value to the discussion please save yourself the time of posting and me the time of reading it.

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#315406 - 03/17/08 05:37 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
C.F. Kane Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 257
Loc: Bat City
Hmmm...

Does that mean we are even?

I'm sorry that you haven't gotten anything out of them, but some of US have had quite a chuckle.

Toodles!
_________________________
"This is my body which is broken for you, this do in remembrance of me." - I Cor. 11:24

"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

"Maybe I'll make some teeth and whiskers." -C.F. Kane


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#315407 - 03/17/08 05:38 PM You are quite right. [Re: ModernTantalus]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
I agree with the main bulk of your post, although the topic has been "done to death" somewhat, over time.

A personal bugbear is people who cannot take responsibility for their actions.

I've never slept with anyone that I later regretted. However, if I did, I'd accept that it was a decision I made, even if I had been inebriated to some degree. If you have, then such was your own responsibility, I trust you agree?

I recognise, however, that the other way around, that's not how most people see it, particularly with drunken girls. Thus, I have always been inclined to leave drunken girls to stagger in the gutter, and take the sober ones home instead.

Naturally this requires a degree of discrimination as to how inebriated someone is. Personally, I find that if their motor functions are gone to the alcohol (clumsier than usual) then:

a) they're too drunk and should be turned down
b) they're probably starting to make themselves look unattractive by now anyway

On the other hand, I've bedded drunken guys (as a teenager anyway - I've only done sober ones for years), including ones who claimed to be hetero. But, I have found men will tend to be, well, men about it.

A sexist observation? Perhaps, but an observation nevertheless.

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#315411 - 03/17/08 06:08 PM Re: You are quite right. [Re: Linguascelesta]
Scion Offline



Registered: 10/15/07
Posts: 753
Loc: London, UK
 Originally Posted By: Linguascelesta
On the other hand, I've bedded drunken guys (as a teenager anyway - I've only done sober ones for years), including ones who claimed to be hetero. But, I have found men will tend to be, well, men about it.

A sexist observation? Perhaps, but an observation nevertheless.


Hmmm, not so sure. I've also bedded some "straight" men and they can be pretty loathe to actually take responsibility for what they're doing. There was one guy I was seeing casually who said he was bi and not sure if we wanted to be having sex with men blah blah blah but would meet up with me and then afterwards get all closed off and run away quickly... but then return when he was horny for some dick another time. Then there was the guy who slept with me but within minutes of orgasming suddenly started feeling crap about the fact that he'd just cheated on his girl friend and excused himself quickly (funny how she hadn't crossed his mind before that point).

Sure, you could argue it's another issue, but at the centre of it is the same point - people failing to take responsibility for their own desires and actions, and subsequently not being willing to live up to the consequences. With the shoe on the other foot I've slept with a few people who, looking back on it, I think I would have preferred not to, but no-one was forcing me and you chalk it up to experience.

Just in case anyone now has the impression that everyone who has sex with me runs away straight afterwards I'd like to state that it's emphatically not the case.
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#315418 - 03/17/08 06:46 PM Being a man. [Re: Scion]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
 Originally Posted By: Scion
Hmmm, not so sure. I've also bedded some "straight" men and they can be pretty loathe to actually take responsibility for what they're doing.


"Aye, in the catalogue [they] go for men,
As hounds and greyhounds, mongrels, spaniels, curs,
Shoughs, waterrugs, and demi-wolves are clept
All by the name of dogs.
But the valued file distinguishes..."


- Macbeth

Then, if they were not being men about it, they barely deserve to be called men in this context, do they? Perhaps I am in the minority by deeming that there is more to being "a man" in the world than simply having a penis.

 Quote:
With the shoe on the other foot I've slept with a few people who, looking back on it, I think I would have preferred not to, but no-one was forcing me and you chalk it up to experience.


Then, I salute you for being a man about it ;\)

 Quote:
Just in case anyone now has the impression that everyone who has sex with me runs away straight afterwards I'd like to state that it's emphatically not the case.


Hahaha... Now that is hilarious

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