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#315419 - 03/17/08 06:54 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Common occurrences for common people are easy to avoid. Don't assume just because something that is a fairly standard event will happen to someone else (or that someone else would allow themselves to be in such a situation).

>>The effects of ethanol on sex drive (and, unfortunately, performance) are well established and physiological in nature in both men and women. To claim that ethanol consumption won't increase sexual desire is to demonstrate an ignorance of physiology. While I'm on the topic of ignorance, ethanol is the technical name for drinking alcohol.

Arguing over the effect of alcohol is a mute point. This is purely a situational issue of being caught with your pants down. Learn to avoid it in the future instead of laying blame on females or alcohol.

>>What initially started me thinking about this subject wasn't a personal situation, but something I saw on Dateline or some such show a few years back.

In one of your past posts you said this situation occurred second hand through a female friend of the woman you slept with. A show aired a few years back does not bring this subject up as mere discussion. There is something deeper.
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#315429 - 03/17/08 07:44 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: Discipline]
Happy Birthday Nicolette Offline


Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 192
Loc: Deutschland
 Originally Posted By: Discipline

In one of your past posts you said this situation occurred second hand through a female friend of the woman you slept with. A show aired a few years back does not bring this subject up as mere discussion. There is something deeper.


You know, I wasn't going to bring this up but your statement tipped the scales for me.

It is not a common situation for women to claim rape based on a few drinks and actually succeed in court. About 4 years ago, I filed sexual assault charges. I don't really want to go into details, but when I reported it, I was brushed off. No one cared.

I don't want to hear about how all these poor guys everywhere are getting sued for having a good time by guilt ridden women. It ain't happening. Perhaps here and there somebody may try and pull this stunt. But I can tell you firsthand that the reporting experience is a million times more embarrassing than having a coyote ugly moment.

You are forced to relive every single detail in the report. Every detail. Such as the size of the man's penis, what color cups you were drinking out of, etc. Anyone who says that reporting a sexual assault is less embarrassing than claiming responsibility for a bad decision has no clue what the reporting experience is like because it is like having your humanity stripped away from you.

And in the end, when it's one person's word against the other's, it's overwhelming that there will be no extenuating circumstances.

This theory is bullshit. It doesn't happen. What happens far more often is people making stupid choices and then gossiping to their friends about it. Or someone gets legitimately raped, and is either to afraid to come forward because of our culture's blame the victim mentality. Or, they do come forward, and it either gets dismissed, or, they face the backlash, which is in fact a common outcome.

Or perhaps, this is the well gnawed bone of contention for somebody who can't get laid unless it's with the aid of that good old social lubricant, alcohol, and secretly feels like less of a man...as he damn well should.
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#315436 - 03/17/08 08:22 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2194
 Originally Posted By: ModernTantalus
We men are familiar with the situation. We go out, we get drunk, get beer goggles, and then come on to a girl who we probably wouldn't have were we sober.


I'm a man and I'm not familiar with this situation. I drink but never to the point of intoxication where I would just fuck anything with holes.

 Quote:
I've found that about 75% of women feel that, if a woman drinks and then sleeps with a guy, he took advantage of her and it's rape.


What source did you get this from?

 Quote:
what is the relation to Satanism?


So far, nothing really.

 Quote:
Also, this double standard sets back women's rights. It gives the idea that women are weaker than men mentally and aren't as capable of making decisions under the influence of drugs or alcohol as men are. As long as double standards like this continue to exist, sexism will continue to exist.


People in general whether male or female aren't capable of anything under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Sexism is irrelevant in this case.

 Quote:
I'm interesting in hearing what other people think of this situation. I realize that it's a sensitive and emotional subject, but I do ask that responses be well thought out and rational.


I personally didn't think your topic was well thought out and rational itself.
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#315439 - 03/17/08 08:52 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
foreverlearning Offline


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 104
This has never happened to me, because I normally don't drink to that point. However, I am in college right now living on campus and I can honestly say this is far from out of the ordinary. This happens constantly to plenty of people every weekend and although I have only once heard of someone pressing charges (the male was kicked out of school), the male is normally looked at as taking advantage of the girl, even if he was more drunk (no excuse in my opinion though, he did it to himself). However, the girl is then looked down on as a slut. Noone is happy. I guess just don't drink so much that you regret it later.

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#315446 - 03/17/08 09:21 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
 Originally Posted By: ModernTantalus
I've found that about 75% of women feel that, if a woman drinks and then sleeps with a guy, he took advantage of her and it's rape.


You may have a good argument, however your "statistics" bother me. Are they conducted from a scientific study? How was the study conducted? What was the control group? Was the sample of a sufficient size? Did everyone in the population have an equal chance to be selected for the sample?

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#315453 - 03/17/08 09:58 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: TheDegenerate]
L0ki Offline



Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 991
Loc: Scandinavia
 Originally Posted By: Phosis
These topics are so unnecessary.

I have some questions for you.

Why bother discussing a topic that is outright common sense? Why bother discussing WHO should be responsible and WHY they should, when they probably won't anyways? Why bother "making sense" of something that only the stupid would have to attempt to "make sense" OF in the first place?

"We men" also sounds like your referring to something I am NOT familiar with. Being generalized in your definition of what being a man unfairly stereotypes men as that which they are unfairly depicted of on a regular basis. (football watching beer drinking retards, which me, and all of my male friends, are NOT.) I am unfortunately, not familiar with being an idiot who gets wasted, and hits on girls who I wouldn't normally fuck on a bet. If I did sleep with a girl who my "friends" did not agree was "hot", I wouldn't give a shit about that in the first place. I have standards that are important to ME, I don't care what anyone else thinks about said standards.

This subject is as over-discussed as it is pointless. Don't let it bother you, just don't be an idiot; don't worry about what the other idiots are doing.


Phosis did all the work for me; for this is EXACTLY how I feel.
Especially the marked part.
ModernTantalus: My tip to you is to stop putting so much stock in stereotypes and watch the clock.
Hail Satan!


Edited by The Black Waltz (03/17/08 10:01 PM)
_________________________
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1. The short memory of the human race.

2. History repeats itself.

3. The short memory of the human race.

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#315465 - 03/17/08 10:45 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: foreverlearning]
C.F. Kane Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 257
Loc: Bat City
When did college students become the standard bearer for society?
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"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

"Maybe I'll make some teeth and whiskers." -C.F. Kane


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#315469 - 03/17/08 11:14 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11532
Loc: New England, USA
 Originally Posted By: ModernTantalus
To claim that ethanol consumption won't increase sexual desire is to demonstrate an ignorance of physiology.

It seems to me that intoxication doesn't increase sex drive. It just lowers inhibitions and self-control. That's all that's happening within these examples you and everybody else are giving.

Some people actually get themselves drunk so that they can do the things that would normally contradict with their inhabitions, whether it's an entertainer getting rid of stagefright or a self-loathing prude who needs to get laid. I can't think of anything more anti-Satanic than this sort of self-deceit, to give not only other people but ONESELF the excuse of "I was drunk". I agree that there are some lame anti-male double standards from the feminists, but when it comes to doing things "under the influence", Satanists don't have the hang-ups and guilt-filled inhabitions that drive drunkenness in the first place, because they practice personal responsibility, and more importantly take no shame in their desires.
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#315478 - 03/17/08 11:47 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: C.F. Kane]
foreverlearning Offline


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 104
 Originally Posted By: Exsanguinate!!!
When did college students become the standard bearer for society?


I never said that college students are in any way representing the rest of society, although I reread my post and I suppose I didn't make it clear again after saying where I was that I was speaking only about college campuses I have been to.
This is definately not true of my home town. People don't go out every weekend and make mistakes everywhere, not even on campus. But it is far from uncommon here.

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#315538 - 03/18/08 06:46 AM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Biff Offline


Registered: 06/20/06
Posts: 370
Loc: Hong Kong, SAR
This conversation is already pretty much closed up with the posts before me, but yes, the bottom line here that should precede such a situation like this is, don't drink yourself piss ass drunk so that you end up behaving so irresponsibly and then start blaming the female for blaming you.

To end with a nice quote from the Satanic bible, 'Indulgence, not compulsion', because to drink yourself to this level, is a compulsion.
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#315608 - 03/18/08 11:11 AM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: foreverlearning]
C.F. Kane Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 257
Loc: Bat City
You said this:


 Quote:
However, I am in college right now living on campus and I can honestly say this is far from out of the ordinary. This happens constantly to plenty of people every weekend



And then this:

 Quote:
I was speaking only about college campuses I have been to.
This is definately not true of my home town. People don't go out every weekend and make mistakes everywhere, not even on campus. But it is far from uncommon here.


How big is this college, and this hometown of yours?

My "hometown" runs roughly 1 million strong with the local University being among the biggest in the world, (50k in undergrads alone, I believe.)

We also sport more "live music venues" per capita than any other place in the world. This translates to: more bars per capita than anywhere else. So, what we are speaking of is not uncommon here either. By that, I mean stupid people doing even more stupid things under the relaxed and stupid veil of an equally stupid drug called alcohol. Almost none of them take any responsibility for anything. We also sport one of the highest highway fatality rates in the United States. The former is the "oppressive" cops, and the latter always tends to be "bad" roads or "the other guys fault."

So, I believe that people, in fact, DO go out every night of the week and make mistakes. It can also be noted that this is called, human nature. Most of these people do not want anything to do with their role in things preferring to chalk it up to, "a bad hand." That, of course, says nothing of those who'd rather keep on drinking, or as thee AA'ers say "blotting out their very existence to the bitter end."

Unfortunately, there is really no way around this behavior except; not engaging in it, not tolerating its presence, not enabling it, and arming against it. If one fails to plan one plans to fail, so to speak.

For those women and men who have found themselves in a sticky situation i can only say, "If one plays with snakes they should not get upset when they are bitten."

No one blamed Togare for being a lion.

This is the shallowest end of the stratification pool here, and definitely where all the turd-like flotsam and jetsam end up.

If anyone needs me I'll be on the other side doing the backstroke!
_________________________
"This is my body which is broken for you, this do in remembrance of me." - I Cor. 11:24

"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

"Maybe I'll make some teeth and whiskers." -C.F. Kane


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#315614 - 03/18/08 11:21 AM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: ModernTantalus


Why does this bother me and what is the relation to Satanism? Satanism is all about taking responsibility for your life and control of it.

I'm interesting in hearing what other people think of this situation.



You may not like my answer.

I find the best way to deal with this is not to get so drunk that I do something I will regret. I am also turned off by someone who is obviously drunk; so, even if I were looking to get laid (being married, that is not an issue), it wouldn't be with someone who would sober up later.

I know...I'm a kill joy.
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#315634 - 03/18/08 12:26 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: Nicolette]
ModernTantalus Offline


Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
You appear to be operating under inaccurate assumptions. I've only slept with two girls who had some level of intoxication as I mentioned in another post. One I had been sleeping with for a long time before hand sober. The other one never accused me of taking advantage of her. I'm not going to go into details about the situations surrounding every woman I've slept with, but let it suffice to say that history does not bare out the contention that I need alcohol to get laid.

You also seem to think that I'm a misogynist, which is also incorrect. One of the reasons why this double standard is of interest to me is because double standards reinforce the differences between people. It encourages psychological in groups and out groups. Until we see all human beings as being part of the same in group who all operate under the same rules and expectations racism and sexism will persist and it will inhibit our ability to judge individuals based on individual accomplishments and contributions to society. My interest in the topic doesn't come from an anger at women, but from an interest in pointing out a situation which reinforces sexism and causes women to be under evaluated by their male peers.

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#315641 - 03/18/08 12:55 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
Happy Birthday Nicolette Offline


Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 192
Loc: Deutschland
You appear to have brought the m-word out of your own nether-regions.

I inferred that you are probably a loser who has some misguided issues towards women, or else you wouldn't be in this forum trying to stir up 'intellectual' commentary about 'something that happened to somebody once or maybe it was on a tv show, not quite sure except that it really fucking matters to me somehow...".

In short, your premise was full of holes. I don't like you and you are boring. That is all.
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#315702 - 03/18/08 05:16 PM Re: Women, Alcohol, Drugs, and Responsibility [Re: ModernTantalus]
C.F. Kane Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 257
Loc: Bat City
 Quote:
Until we see all human beings as being part of the same in group who all operate under the same rules and expectations racism and sexism will persist and it will inhibit our ability to judge individuals based on individual accomplishments and contributions to society.


Hold your breath and wait for this to happen, please.

 Quote:
I'm not going to go into details about the situations surrounding every woman I've slept with, but let it suffice to say that history does not bare out the contention that I need alcohol to get laid.


Yet, it bothers you enough that you need to defend it. Who cares if you are sexually inept, or a misogynist?

Someone hurry! We need the good guy badges, Stat!

 Quote:
One of the reasons why this double standard is of interest to me is because double standards reinforce the differences between people.


Yes, between "us" and "them." I, for one, am excited when I can clearly see the the differences. It helps make navigating the social mine field that much easier. If only we could adopt some sort of "scarlet letter" system for stupidity.

Will the world really be a better place if, "we see all human beings as being part of the same in group who all operate under the same rules and expectations," as you say.

I don't F-ing think so, nor do I think I want any part of that, AT ALL!

We are not all the same, if this is an issue for you then you are in the wrong place.
_________________________
"This is my body which is broken for you, this do in remembrance of me." - I Cor. 11:24

"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

"Maybe I'll make some teeth and whiskers." -C.F. Kane


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