We men are familiar with the situation. We go out, we get drunk, get beer goggles, and then come on to a girl who we probably wouldn't have were we sober. The next morning we think "What the Hell did I do?" Then all our friends laugh at us and it's called a questionable hook up if our friends happen to be nice. However, when the exact same situation happens with a woman it's called rape.

I've found that about 75% of women feel that, if a woman drinks and then sleeps with a guy, he took advantage of her and it's rape. It doesn't matter if he was drunk, sober, or whatever. I think this is just a blatant example of people in our country passing off the responsibility for their own actions.

Let me head off the "what ifs" that always come up in this sensitive subject. What if a guy slips a drug or roofie in her drink? That's rape. What if she's so drunk she's passed out? That's rape. I'm not talking about any of these situations. I'm talking about a situation in which a woman knowingly and intentionally gets drunk or high and then comes on to a guy. My personal feeling is that, in that situation, the woman needs to take responsibility for her own decisions and actions.

I've also heard the argument that alcohol makes women horny so they can't be held responsible for what they do when they drink. Ask any man whether we get horny or not when we're drunk. You'll get a pretty consistent answer.

Why does this bother me and what is the relation to Satanism? Satanism is all about taking responsibility for your life and control of it. Also, this double standard sets back women's rights. It gives the idea that women are weaker than men mentally and aren't as capable of making decisions under the influence of drugs or alcohol as men are. As long as double standards like this continue to exist, sexism will continue to exist.

I'm interesting in hearing what other people think of this situation. I realize that it's a sensitive and emotional subject, but I do ask that responses be well thought out and rational.

The responsible thing would be not to go out and get drunk then sleep with people you don't know, and don't let anyone who's drunk sleep with you before you know them!

The worst kinds of woman are in clubs and bars, avoid them.

The best kind of woman wont go out unless they're going out with friends and then they wont be interested with beered up guys talking crap at them when they're trying to enjoy themselves.

No matter what kind of guy you are you will be put in that category even if you aren't drunk.

Don't complain about things you need not subject yourself too, thats what I think this relates to in regards Satanism.

Sorry but I haven't ever been in this situation, I have checked a woman out in a club but never took it further than that but I have asked around about her and got to know her friends to even think about a sexual or any other relationship.

Join a book club or go to night school if you have it, the quality of woman there is far beyond a drunken night out.

Clubs are in my experience a "meat market" if all you want is meat thats an excellent place for it, but don't expect the meat to be intelligent.

The social scenario that you describe is one that allows women to claim rape, yet inhibits a man to do the same thing when faced with the same situation. You say that this suggests women are weaker. Women are swimming with the current on this one I'm afraid - and this makes them stronger.

I've been in this particular situation, but the girls who had been drinking were girls who I had known from before, not strangers from a bar. Neither of them accused me of taking advantage of them, but I confided a personal situation involving one of them to a female friend of mine and was strongly admonished about taking advantage of this girl even though she came on to me and it still took her an hour and a half (during which she was with me and not drinking) before I went to bed with her! I agree with avoiding the women at bars and clubs and I don't usually go to those anyway. Still, I didn't mean this post as a commentary on my personal experience, but as a more general commentary on society, responsibility, and sexism in general.

Responsibility can start with going out and not getting so drunk that you don't know what you did the night before.
This is far from being responsible, it's weak and stupid and thus very un-Satanic.
Smart decisions will never be made under the influence of alcohol and drugs... not by man and not by woman.

Well I think you have your answer there, society is not responsible and anyone can be sexist.

In fact people have had a lot longer to be subtle about being sexist so they can hide it better than say racism, thats why most people are shocked when they find out someone is sexist.

Think about it's the oldest conflict, that of men versus women.

Of course there are things women can get away with and men cant, thats just the way things are.

Unless you are a Satanist and you know exactly how these things can be used by people and by yourself to your own advantage, then the games become interesting to exploit.

These topics are so unnecessary.

I have some questions for you.

Why bother discussing a topic that is outright common sense? Why bother discussing WHO should be responsible and WHY they should, when they probably won't anyways? Why bother "making sense" of something that only the stupid would have to attempt to "make sense" OF in the first place?

"We men" also sounds like your referring to something I am NOT familiar with. Being generalized in your definition of what being a man unfairly stereotypes men as that which they are unfairly depicted of on a regular basis. (football watching beer drinking retards, which me, and all of my male friends, are NOT.) I am unfortunately, not familiar with being an idiot who gets wasted, and hits on girls who I wouldn't normally fuck on a bet. If I did sleep with a girl who my "friends" did not agree was "hot", I wouldn't give a shit about that in the first place. I have standards that are important to ME, I don't care what anyone else thinks about said standards.

This subject is as over-discussed as it is pointless. Don't let it bother you, just don't be an idiot; don't worry about what the other idiots are doing.

The only guys who make it a point to complain about this are guys who like to complain about women in general anyways.

Please do not assume that all men are this brutish, idiotic, and alcoholic. This is a truly moronic way to open a post.



Since when?



Do you know, and did you ask all women?

Judging by your post I'd assume the women you know drink about as much as the men you know, is this correct?



Geez, thanks so much for the clarification. [Sighs, extremely relieved.]



"Pretty consistent," eh? Well, that's good enough for me. I say, "let's burn the bastards!!!"



No, actually, you do by posting this ignorant dribble.

People of all shapes, sizes, and colors fail to take responsibility for their actions everyday. Should we be ranting and raving about it? Should WE the reponsible ones start whining about double standards? Like, "It's not FAIR, I HAVE health insurance, and I PAY my taxes. It's not FAIR that I pay into the system and only to see others with LESS drive and vitality REAP the benefits of MY hard work. WHAH! WHAH! WHAH!"

If it really bothers you try DOING something about it.

If you have to rely on drugs( yes, alcohol is a drug) for dates/trysts then don't complain about the lack of quality you get.

I don't drink and really don't associate with those that do.

I am no prude. I enjoy a gin and tonic from time to time, or a Strongbow. But to get thrashed, drink twenty beers, and slobber all over some poor girl is not becoming of me, by any means.

I don't go to bars because they are filled with the kind of people I would sooner toss into a fire then share a conversation with.

Hmmmmm, not seeing a lot of myself in this statement, it must be said.

Checks inside underwear

Yep, testicles definitely present.



Your circle of female friends clearly consists of women who want to act like sluts but don't like being called one. My female friends are happy to indulge their sexualities without calling date rape on their post-shag mistakes. Guess which group is taking responsibility for their actions?



I'm really not sure what response you expected to get. You seem to presume that a lot of people here (even the majority) fit some of your assumptions about what male and female behaviour should be. As you can see from the responses this isn't the case. As a man who doesn't drink and therefore only has himself to blame when his dick does the thinking for him I don't really relate to much of what you say, nor do I really care about the people who do (drunken fuckwits that they would be). Indeed, as has been made clear by others, who is taking less responsibility? The slutty wannabe women or the men who let themselves be hauled into court by spurious date rape charges because they didn't drink sensibly?

Finally I think your attempt to define date rape is pretty crude and doesn't really do the subject justice. Actual date rape (or indeed conventional rape) can be a complex issue and not simply a "oh my god what did I sleep with last night?" reaction.

75% of women are absolutely fruity-buggo. It's why I tend to prefer the company of men, with only a few notable exceptions. (And yes, you were generalizing, and so am I.)

I tend to believe that what's good for the goose is good for the gander. If a man can reasonably be expected to bounce back from (or, even better, avoid!) an ill-advised or poorly-thought-out sexual encounter, then so can a woman. If a certain act is legitimately considered rape, or, to a lesser degree, coercion or trickery, when done to a woman, then it probably ought to be considered the same when done to a man.

If you want to be considered a respectable adult human being who is equal to other respected and respectable adult human beings, you have to act like it, through and through, and hold yourself to the same standards to which those others are held.

Agreed. Thank you Scion, for bringing a little more sense into a senseless potential debate...as well as the "third side" (Not a guy who digs chicks, not a chick who digs guys.) that we so prominently seek to find.

You're welcome Phosis, although I'd point out that men as myself aren't that hard to find (check the notches on my bedpost for evidence of that).

Fair enough.

I can't relate to the notches on the bedpost...though I did have a spider killing bokken for when I lived in a friends basement. Racked up damn near 100 notches on that thing...spiders as big as the palm of your hand, no shit.

I agree with you TrojZyr.

If a woman can not act responsibly they do not deserve respect, especially when it involves alcohol and sex.

This does also apply to men aswell, if they can not act responsibly then they do not deserve any respect either.

I can proudly say that the scenario you've described is one that I've never experienced.

My original generalization about men was made to demonstrate a specific situation. I'm not a large drinker, but in the US at least the phenomena of questionable hook ups and beer goggles is common enough that, even if you're not a guy who gets drunk and sleeps with anything that moves, you're probably familiar with that situation and have heard of it at some point.

As far as doing something about it goes... What would you propose I do other than make other's aware of the situation, initiate intelligent debate about it, and provide an opportunity for other's to examine the situation and how people feel about it?

Since Satanism advocates indulgence and NOT compulsion, I can imagine that you just picked the wrong crowd for a discussion like this. I would propose you ask the sort of people who wear beer goggles, sleep with people and later regret it, and then instigate law suits over the matter.

Thanks for the responses so far. I'd like to take this point to clarify some of my generalizations. I'm not saying here that all guys are alcoholic hornballs with no respect for women, but the situation that I initiate my post with is common enough and, in the USA at least, present enough in pop culture, that we're all aware that it happens.

When I say that 75% of women feel a certain why what I'm refering to is people who the conversation has come up with for whatever reason. I don't expect the responses here to be typical of the majority of people which is why I specifically bring the topic up here.

The effects of ethanol on sex drive (and, unfortunately, performance) are well established and physiological in nature in both men and women. To claim that ethanol consumption won't increase sexual desire is to demonstrate an ignorance of physiology. While I'm on the topic of ignorance, ethanol is the technical name for drinking alcohol.

What initially started me thinking about this subject wasn't a personal situation, but something I saw on Dateline or some such show a few years back. A college guy slept with a drunk girl who came on to him in his dorm. At least, that was his claim. The next day she accused him of taking advantage of her drunkenness although her was also intoxicated. Her and the feminist group on campus banded together to protest and try to get the university to expel him and the local prosecutor to press charges. The issue wasn't resolved at the time this program aired, but it did make me think of how a man can get dragged into a situation like that and have his life ruined. Since then the topic has come up from time to time in my own life.

I seek feedback here for a couple reasons. 1.) The people here are, I would hope, of above average intelligence and have a strong sense of personal responsibility. 2.) Awareness and open discussion of social problems is the only way to change them. Communicating ideas is the only way of resolving social problems unless you control a large army and don't mind killing dissidents.

You can tell on the reactions so far that a lot here are not interested in hanging around and meeting up or sleeping with drunk/stoned losers, right? How is this important for you to examine?
You want to initiate an intelligent debate? Pick another subject!

Ah... A pragmatic approach. Very respectable.

It also passes along the double standard that women aren't that sexual. You can't say you're sexy and sexual, you're in control of your body, you deserve freedom, and then run to the Women's Center crying because someone say "nice legs". LaVey wanted his witches to be with as many or as few men/women as they wanted. He was both for sexuals and asexuals.

Okay, you have established an assumption that I am aware that idiots sometimes get drunk and behave in a dubious fashion.



Now, you would have me become more aware of that which I am already "probably" familiar with. Also, intelligent debate requires intelligent input from both sides. Not, "drunk chicks are lame."

That aside, what a welcome opportunity to examine people perpetuating a cycle of irresponsibility!

Boy, I just can't thank you enough for this RARE and pleasant experience. You should totally teach a "fox trap" awareness class, because, like, totally EVERY ONE of my bro's and dudes I know has had to chew their own arm of at one point. Cuz, like, you know dude, you get wasted and, like, shit happens.

Party on, Dude!

You can do better.

If your responses are going to be sarcastic and provide nothing of value to the discussion please save yourself the time of posting and me the time of reading it.

Hmmm...

Does that mean we are even?

I'm sorry that you haven't gotten anything out of them, but some of US have had quite a chuckle.

Toodles!

I agree with the main bulk of your post, although the topic has been "done to death" somewhat, over time.

A personal bugbear is people who cannot take responsibility for their actions.

I've never slept with anyone that I later regretted. However, if I did, I'd accept that it was a decision I made, even if I had been inebriated to some degree. If you have, then such was your own responsibility, I trust you agree?

I recognise, however, that the other way around, that's not how most people see it, particularly with drunken girls. Thus, I have always been inclined to leave drunken girls to stagger in the gutter, and take the sober ones home instead.

Naturally this requires a degree of discrimination as to how inebriated someone is. Personally, I find that if their motor functions are gone to the alcohol (clumsier than usual) then:

a) they're too drunk and should be turned down
b) they're probably starting to make themselves look unattractive by now anyway

On the other hand, I've bedded drunken guys (as a teenager anyway - I've only done sober ones for years), including ones who claimed to be hetero. But, I have found men will tend to be, well, men about it.

A sexist observation? Perhaps, but an observation nevertheless.

Hmmm, not so sure. I've also bedded some "straight" men and they can be pretty loathe to actually take responsibility for what they're doing. There was one guy I was seeing casually who said he was bi and not sure if we wanted to be having sex with men blah blah blah but would meet up with me and then afterwards get all closed off and run away quickly... but then return when he was horny for some dick another time. Then there was the guy who slept with me but within minutes of orgasming suddenly started feeling crap about the fact that he'd just cheated on his girl friend and excused himself quickly (funny how she hadn't crossed his mind before that point).

Sure, you could argue it's another issue, but at the centre of it is the same point - people failing to take responsibility for their own desires and actions, and subsequently not being willing to live up to the consequences. With the shoe on the other foot I've slept with a few people who, looking back on it, I think I would have preferred not to, but no-one was forcing me and you chalk it up to experience.

Just in case anyone now has the impression that everyone who has sex with me runs away straight afterwards I'd like to state that it's emphatically not the case.

"Aye, in the catalogue [they] go for men,
As hounds and greyhounds, mongrels, spaniels, curs,
Shoughs, waterrugs, and demi-wolves are clept
All by the name of dogs.
But the valued file distinguishes..."

- Macbeth

Then, if they were not being men about it, they barely deserve to be called men in this context, do they? Perhaps I am in the minority by deeming that there is more to being "a man" in the world than simply having a penis.



Then, I salute you for being a man about it



Hahaha... Now that is hilarious

Common occurrences for common people are easy to avoid. Don't assume just because something that is a fairly standard event will happen to someone else (or that someone else would allow themselves to be in such a situation).

>>The effects of ethanol on sex drive (and, unfortunately, performance) are well established and physiological in nature in both men and women. To claim that ethanol consumption won't increase sexual desire is to demonstrate an ignorance of physiology. While I'm on the topic of ignorance, ethanol is the technical name for drinking alcohol.

Arguing over the effect of alcohol is a mute point. This is purely a situational issue of being caught with your pants down. Learn to avoid it in the future instead of laying blame on females or alcohol.

>>What initially started me thinking about this subject wasn't a personal situation, but something I saw on Dateline or some such show a few years back.

In one of your past posts you said this situation occurred second hand through a female friend of the woman you slept with. A show aired a few years back does not bring this subject up as mere discussion. There is something deeper.

You know, I wasn't going to bring this up but your statement tipped the scales for me.

It is not a common situation for women to claim rape based on a few drinks and actually succeed in court. About 4 years ago, I filed sexual assault charges. I don't really want to go into details, but when I reported it, I was brushed off. No one cared.

I don't want to hear about how all these poor guys everywhere are getting sued for having a good time by guilt ridden women. It ain't happening. Perhaps here and there somebody may try and pull this stunt. But I can tell you firsthand that the reporting experience is a million times more embarrassing than having a coyote ugly moment.

You are forced to relive every single detail in the report. Every detail. Such as the size of the man's penis, what color cups you were drinking out of, etc. Anyone who says that reporting a sexual assault is less embarrassing than claiming responsibility for a bad decision has no clue what the reporting experience is like because it is like having your humanity stripped away from you.

And in the end, when it's one person's word against the other's, it's overwhelming that there will be no extenuating circumstances.

This theory is bullshit. It doesn't happen. What happens far more often is people making stupid choices and then gossiping to their friends about it. Or someone gets legitimately raped, and is either to afraid to come forward because of our culture's blame the victim mentality. Or, they do come forward, and it either gets dismissed, or, they face the backlash, which is in fact a common outcome.

Or perhaps, this is the well gnawed bone of contention for somebody who can't get laid unless it's with the aid of that good old social lubricant, alcohol, and secretly feels like less of a man...as he damn well should.

I'm a man and I'm not familiar with this situation. I drink but never to the point of intoxication where I would just fuck anything with holes.



What source did you get this from?



So far, nothing really.



People in general whether male or female aren't capable of anything under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Sexism is irrelevant in this case.



I personally didn't think your topic was well thought out and rational itself.

This has never happened to me, because I normally don't drink to that point. However, I am in college right now living on campus and I can honestly say this is far from out of the ordinary. This happens constantly to plenty of people every weekend and although I have only once heard of someone pressing charges (the male was kicked out of school), the male is normally looked at as taking advantage of the girl, even if he was more drunk (no excuse in my opinion though, he did it to himself). However, the girl is then looked down on as a slut. Noone is happy. I guess just don't drink so much that you regret it later.

You may have a good argument, however your "statistics" bother me. Are they conducted from a scientific study? How was the study conducted? What was the control group? Was the sample of a sufficient size? Did everyone in the population have an equal chance to be selected for the sample?

Phosis did all the work for me; for this is EXACTLY how I feel.
Especially the marked part.
ModernTantalus: My tip to you is to stop putting so much stock in stereotypes and watch the clock.
Hail Satan!

When did college students become the standard bearer for society?

It seems to me that intoxication doesn't increase sex drive. It just lowers inhibitions and self-control. That's all that's happening within these examples you and everybody else are giving.

Some people actually get themselves drunk so that they can do the things that would normally contradict with their inhabitions, whether it's an entertainer getting rid of stagefright or a self-loathing prude who needs to get laid. I can't think of anything more anti-Satanic than this sort of self-deceit, to give not only other people but ONESELF the excuse of "I was drunk". I agree that there are some lame anti-male double standards from the feminists, but when it comes to doing things "under the influence", Satanists don't have the hang-ups and guilt-filled inhabitions that drive drunkenness in the first place, because they practice personal responsibility, and more importantly take no shame in their desires.

I never said that college students are in any way representing the rest of society, although I reread my post and I suppose I didn't make it clear again after saying where I was that I was speaking only about college campuses I have been to.
This is definately not true of my home town. People don't go out every weekend and make mistakes everywhere, not even on campus. But it is far from uncommon here.

This conversation is already pretty much closed up with the posts before me, but yes, the bottom line here that should precede such a situation like this is, don't drink yourself piss ass drunk so that you end up behaving so irresponsibly and then start blaming the female for blaming you.

To end with a nice quote from the Satanic bible, 'Indulgence, not compulsion', because to drink yourself to this level, is a compulsion.

You said this:





And then this:



How big is this college, and this hometown of yours?

My "hometown" runs roughly 1 million strong with the local University being among the biggest in the world, (50k in undergrads alone, I believe.)

We also sport more "live music venues" per capita than any other place in the world. This translates to: more bars per capita than anywhere else. So, what we are speaking of is not uncommon here either. By that, I mean stupid people doing even more stupid things under the relaxed and stupid veil of an equally stupid drug called alcohol. Almost none of them take any responsibility for anything. We also sport one of the highest highway fatality rates in the United States. The former is the "oppressive" cops, and the latter always tends to be "bad" roads or "the other guys fault."

So, I believe that people, in fact, DO go out every night of the week and make mistakes. It can also be noted that this is called, human nature. Most of these people do not want anything to do with their role in things preferring to chalk it up to, "a bad hand." That, of course, says nothing of those who'd rather keep on drinking, or as thee AA'ers say "blotting out their very existence to the bitter end."

Unfortunately, there is really no way around this behavior except; not engaging in it, not tolerating its presence, not enabling it, and arming against it. If one fails to plan one plans to fail, so to speak.

For those women and men who have found themselves in a sticky situation i can only say, "If one plays with snakes they should not get upset when they are bitten."

No one blamed Togare for being a lion.

This is the shallowest end of the stratification pool here, and definitely where all the turd-like flotsam and jetsam end up.

If anyone needs me I'll be on the other side doing the backstroke!

You may not like my answer.

I find the best way to deal with this is not to get so drunk that I do something I will regret. I am also turned off by someone who is obviously drunk; so, even if I were looking to get laid (being married, that is not an issue), it wouldn't be with someone who would sober up later.

I know...I'm a kill joy.

You appear to be operating under inaccurate assumptions. I've only slept with two girls who had some level of intoxication as I mentioned in another post. One I had been sleeping with for a long time before hand sober. The other one never accused me of taking advantage of her. I'm not going to go into details about the situations surrounding every woman I've slept with, but let it suffice to say that history does not bare out the contention that I need alcohol to get laid.

You also seem to think that I'm a misogynist, which is also incorrect. One of the reasons why this double standard is of interest to me is because double standards reinforce the differences between people. It encourages psychological in groups and out groups. Until we see all human beings as being part of the same in group who all operate under the same rules and expectations racism and sexism will persist and it will inhibit our ability to judge individuals based on individual accomplishments and contributions to society. My interest in the topic doesn't come from an anger at women, but from an interest in pointing out a situation which reinforces sexism and causes women to be under evaluated by their male peers.

You appear to have brought the m-word out of your own nether-regions.

I inferred that you are probably a loser who has some misguided issues towards women, or else you wouldn't be in this forum trying to stir up 'intellectual' commentary about 'something that happened to somebody once or maybe it was on a tv show, not quite sure except that it really fucking matters to me somehow...".

In short, your premise was full of holes. I don't like you and you are boring. That is all.

Hold your breath and wait for this to happen, please.



Yet, it bothers you enough that you need to defend it. Who cares if you are sexually inept, or a misogynist?

Someone hurry! We need the good guy badges, Stat!



Yes, between "us" and "them." I, for one, am excited when I can clearly see the the differences. It helps make navigating the social mine field that much easier. If only we could adopt some sort of "scarlet letter" system for stupidity.

Will the world really be a better place if, "we see all human beings as being part of the same in group who all operate under the same rules and expectations," as you say.

I don't F-ing think so, nor do I think I want any part of that, AT ALL!

We are not all the same, if this is an issue for you then you are in the wrong place.

This is a bad thing? I personally love the fact that women and men are different and treated differently, it makes life a hell of a lot more interesting.

For example I am a man and love projecting the image of being a hell of a lot more masculine than I might actually be in some situations to gain an advantage, conversely women play upon their feminine charms and power over men to gain an advantage.

How are you not able to accept that the world is the way it is for a reason?

Women being under evaluated by idiot males is not a bad thing, ask a smart woman and they will tell you they like that just fine because they wont see them coming!

In fact I often envy the smart woman, they have it so easy whereas as a male I just have different tools at my disposal and manipulating women is much harder initially in my opinion for a number of reasons I don't feel like going into here.

Sure some women can be very nasty and some men can do unspeakable things, but why does any of this surprise you!

I didn't say we were all the same. I'm saying that human kind, when it no longer marginalizes people, will start to appreciate the unique contributions of each individual and it will lower the wall towards society becoming a meritocracy. I'm do think that we should all see that we are all part of the same group, but I never said anything about everyone operating under the same rules and expectations. What I mean is that whether someone is exceptional or not isn't dependent on their sex or race. Besides, didn't I ask you to stop responding to me?

I think someone does have a hang up with the opposite sex, but I also think somebody is projecting her own issues onto someone else. You've devoted a lot of time to something from someone you don't like and consider boring. If you didn't like my post you could have moved on and found something else instead of coming in, trying to pick a fight with a complete stranger, and then placing labels and making assumptions about someone you neither know nor have ever spoken to. Here's another M word for you. Masochist.

>>I'm saying that human kind, when it no longer marginalizes people, will start to appreciate the unique contributions of each individual and it will lower the wall towards society becoming a meritocracy

Are you serious?

Some people deserved to be marginalized.

I am a human, they are all human, if they drink and do stupid things then I should throw myself into the loop. Nope, not going to work.

We are all part of the same species but not the same group. Don't be tricked into ideal solipsism.

I agree that some people deserve to be marginalized, but only because they're marginal people. Not because they're women or men or black. I believe that everyone is born equal, but not that they remain equal after that.

Can you prove this?

Science far out weights what you are assuming here.

Come on, stop playing the activist card.

You brought up the discussion of alcohol and intoxicated women. You made it a point that it happens to everybody, which is solipsism. Now you use race and women to make a point?

There is more to being exceptional than genetic traits. Savants are often mentally retarded, yet play the most beautiful music imaginable or solves math problems faster than a calculator. Then there are people born with every advantage imaginable who waste their lives away. We can't control the cards we're dealt, but how we play our hand.

I can't relate to this situation for several reasons.

- I don't have to drink any alcohol at all to become extremely horny.
- I would never drink to the point where I don't have any control of myself or when my judgment is beyond impaired.
- Anyone slipping ANYTHING into anyone's drink is a criminal bastard who should be promptly locked away.
- Most of the men you described are hooligans dressed up in beer-goggles, beer-muscles, and beer-stained "wife beater" shirts with backwards hats sporting beer logos.

Some people are morons, they make stupid choices. Why do you think it's your duty to save them or show them the truth? Let idiots be idiots. If you're smart, you'll use it to your advantage (and no, I'm not talking about getting some action). I would suggest being concerned about yourself and making decisions accordingly.

Yeah, like I picked a fight. Everyone in here telling you that this is pointless is going out of their way to pick on you. Poor thing. You are ridiculous and I'm not going to rise to your bait.

Masochist? Ugh.

"You are ridiculous and I'm not going to rise to your bait. "

You just did. Interestingly enough, I don't really care what you think about me. Your personal attacks aren't contributing anything. I notice you haven't bothered attacking anyone who agreed with me. Either you've ignored those comments or singled me out. I now know that I can irritate you without too much effort. Thank you for giving me that power.

"- I don't have to drink any alcohol at all to become extremely horny."

Can't argue with that logic.

Alcohol and other drugs have their effects which have their appeal and enjoyment, unfortunately the intoxication also has traits that reduce very important abilities of decision making and that makes their effect undesirable to many under most conditions.

Perhaps a condition in which one can feel safe not to have a chance to encounter a need for making decisions and otherwise feel up for intoxication with the cost of lowered reasoning ability... as such it just may not be all that appealing all that often.

I could not agree more with your statements here. I just stayed a casual observer from this thread. I think you might be spot on with this poster, and what is being presented by who or whatever this poster is.

Hum here are a few words you seemed to have missed yourself entirely.

Theory and Practice!

Hum this seems fitting for my new award for all the tards who show up here at these fine forums, and waste the quality time with the fine Satanic folks who do matter with their time pointing out the stupidity of the misguided and their dumb ass ideas! Must make use of the wasted space here somehow.

ModernTantalus you've been awarded my new "Monkey Pounding on a Keyboard Award! Enjoy!

[FALLS OUT OF CHAIR LAUGHING]

It still does happen occasionally, which is downright tragic as it hurts the reputation of the man and the credibility of rape charges in general.


I don't know much about lawsuits, but merely implying that someone is a rapist spells trouble. Such rumors spread like wildfire on dry leaves.

You know, I decided last night that it was one of the truest things he's said so far, and put him on ignore.

So unfortunately, I won't be able to see it when he comes up with the entire works of Shakespeare, so you're going to have to let me know how that one turns out

Let's hear it for #8!

Both very true statements. I'm not advocating the complete opposite position that all women are angels and men are oppressors, and so on with the feminist dribble which is just as bad about making outrageous claims and painting the opposite gender in a skewed slant.

I just think it's silly to be touting this situation as something 'we all know' happens all the time.

Neither am I. In fact I have a hard time with people who put to much stock in stereotypes. Unless of course they're smart enough to watch the clock every now and then.


I was merely voicing my feelings, nothing else...

Upon closer scrutiny...I think we are in agreement!

Tards who show up on this forum? I've been on these forums for almost two years now. My posts are kind of intermittent since I do have a life and things to do off of this forum. You posted a link to the 11 Satanic Rules of the Earth. These forums are Magister Ventrue's home and I appreciate the hard work and effort that goes into creating and maintaining them, but this thread was initiated by me out of my own mind. Although I respect the right of moderators to post and edit whatever they please by the power vested in them by Magister Ventrue, in a certain sense this thread is mine. Nobody is required to post on it who doesn't want to. In my initial post I requested that all responses be "well thought out and rational." You came into my thread, attacked me personally and without provocation, then provided nothing of value to the initial topic. Tell me, what is it in your past that makes you so insecure that you have to go online and pick fights with strangers you'll never meet?

In much of life there is a double standard regarding gender,thats life.Fuck um' all.

Scarlet letter gave me a thought.
Instead of having a scarlet letter for stupidity we have a scarlet letter that reinforces the difference of a group often discriminated and viewed by majority an out-group.(Scarlet letter "A")

That is to reinforce the political power of this group often viewed as an insignificant minority but it does not exist to try and make everyone the same any more then the gay movement wanted to make everyone gay.

By no means are people forced to come out of the closet whether they are gay or atheist just to altruistically sacrifice themselves for the good of all gays or atheists.



If a group of organisms operate under the same rules and expectations it is usually viewed as a single agent or even a single organism.
We as humans are such agents and we could also be viewed as a population of bacteria and viruses.

If we as a race of humans were to function as a singular agent we would be nothing but the biomass of the singular agent.

This hardly seems a way to go at the moment although evolution may eventually take us there whether we want it or not. We may desire to evolve our minds by genetically and biologically engineering ourselves and enhancing ourselves with future computer technology which may or may not result in an eventual merging of the minds of our spices similar to the world wide web, but that is just a distant hypothesis.

Is this like a "Special Interest Badge?"

I'd say the "conversion" rate would be about the same as has resulted from the gay movement, i.e. non-existent.

It would definitely serve to reinforce our differences, which I might welcome, but why just limited to the out-groups?

Hmmm... I suppose if every one were able to wear some corresponding symbol the symbols would cease to have any power. Things would be like they are now. We would only have bumper stickers to guide us when "The brakes go out."



This makes me re-think my desire for eternal life, but does make me thankful that my concept of time is much smaller than it is in an evolutionary sense.

I wouldn't say "Special Interest Badge" nor would I attribute it as attempting conversion, maybe more like a displeasure badge to come out of the closet with the displeasure towards the role of religion in the government in a similar way then the gay movement did in order to serve their rights that are provided by the democratic government system.
http://outcampaign.org/

I don't understand what you mean by this, but I think you may be taking my jokes a bit too literally. I do not for a second think that the gay rights movement was meant to convert anyone, hence the quotation marks. Sorry for the confusion.

It seems as though you are supporting greater awareness for the oppressed, am I mistaken? Please clarify.



While I tend to agree with many things "devout" atheists say I can not be a party to the Humanist cause. Dawkins' views on altruism and egalitariansim combined with his rejection of dogma just don't sit well with me.

Sure, its better, for me, than religious fanaticism, but it is not a cause I am going to rally behind, nor do I need a movement to help me find the courage to "come out" against theocracy. I was born with the courage.

I am humbled by inspired by your response to improve myself. I do take things too literally at times.

Egalitarianism is something I do not agree to either, rather I believe there is no individual who is equal to another in anything. There are always people smarter, better and stronger then you in some areas and weaker in others.

In sense I do support Dawkins' out movement for the cause of greater awareness to the oppressed but it is not for myself I need encouragement to come out of the closet rather I believe that the end result of better democracy served by the cause that may encourage some atheists to come out is a cause that serves my interests.

However it was probably a mistake to take on this subject on this thread as it is quite off topic although the actual topic kind of went towards state of warfare.

So you start a topic (I didn't mention bullshit topic) here and you wanna filter on who can respond and who can't, this doesn't make sense.
If you can't stand the heat...don't enter the hellmouth.

Great answer.

It was amusing to toy with in the beginning, but the circle of futility will only drag you down with its contradictions, poor grammar, and double talk.

Get out while you still can; there is no victory to be had in debating the ill-equipped.

Now, here's a brand of Pragmatism I could support wholeheartedly, albeit from a distance. To quote The Good Doktor, "Charity begins at home," and I can see no reason why it shouldn't end up there, as well.

Does it not bother you, however, that Dawkins and his cronies are essentially against The Church of Satan?

Is this a reply to me?

The response was to your post, and the advice was for you, but certainly not the "circle of futility," part. That was for Tantalus.

Sorry for the confusion, er... friendly fire, I suppose?

Actually, I said that half jokingly. My volleys with Exsanguinate up to this point has taught me that he/she will offer their opinion regardless. What I was refering to when I said that was that the posts between Exsanguinate and I thus far have been a bit off topic.

Church of Satan is a fairly new discovery to me so I haven't picked up anything like that, but I'd be interested to know what you mean as to how they are against it.

Most likely it is because they don't see the value in ritual. Have you ever heard that all Satanists are Atheists, but not all Atheists are Satanists?

Or maybe it is because we have a darker sense of humor and throw the best parties.

I doubt that could be the reason as who cares what they think about ritual. Ritual as I understand is about psychodrama, which I assume is consciously controlled self suggestion of sort and surely no scientist denies the power and meaning of that.

Furthermore I don't think there is anything of value in ritual itself besides amusement unless it is serving reality as well.
I personally don't care about ritual at all, but I see the meaning and value in productive means for self suggestion and as such a ritual might have great value to me provided it works for me.

My own experience with self suggestion this far is more on certain types of meditation techniques that I, among other things, find useful for means of distancing myself from emotion to ensure better judgment under different conditions.

Whatever suits you best.

I personally get a lot out of ritual. It's enjoyable and damn effective.

It's not a prerequisite, however, and all are free to partake or not.

Not for nothing, you started this thread on a public forum. You have in essence, and by not being specific, invited us all to give our opinions.

I'm surprised that you haven't enjoyed my volleys to this point, as it has been rather tricky trying to handle your serve.

To direct our, as you call it, banter back to the topic:

I think we have found the general consensus to your query in that most think it a tad presumptious, albeit based somewhat in actual reality. Still, not really worth giving this much thought and time. Stupidity abounds! My advice, not that you've asked, is to do your best and not "get nuthin' on ya!"

I do, however, want to give thanks for the ride. I have had the opportunity to engage in some other enriching conversations as a result of this thread.

HS!