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#310167 - 02/27/08 05:13 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Adveser]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
Yes and at times it is hard to push aside emotion and deal with things properly. Sometimes emotions can grow so strong they blind you from what you really want,the end result of your actions.

#310263 - 02/28/08 03:58 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: FalloutGod]
Charlie D Offline

Registered: 01/17/08
Posts: 15
Lots of people have crazy interpretations of heaven and hell.

#310276 - 02/28/08 06:22 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Auge]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 7000
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
 Originally Posted By: Auge
I think every human being thinks 'beyond himself'. Not that we have the natural idea of an actual physical afterlife, but I think we cann't help 'thinking towards infinity'. So it's no wonder that certain people have come to think of an afterlife and that so many people can relate to that idea. It reflects human thinking in a bad way.

Auge…I would like to propose that no one thinks beyond himself or herself. See…I do not believe that I am going to die. I know that I am; but I do not believe I am.

I think ideas such as Heaven and Hell is the extension of what we know into what we do not know. We cannot think of ourselves any other way. Even those of us who do not think there is “anything after death” (that is a telling phrase) there seem to be the seed of implication that there is someone to not be there.

I agree that it is natural to feel that there is some type of extension of ourselves after we die. I also agree that descriptions of the afterlife are an example of that. I would not say that it reflects “bad thinking”. It is the same phenomenon that allows us to “suspend our disbelief”. In order to suspend disbelief, we have to believe something, for a given period of time. What makes us different is that we realize that we are dealing with our projection in an objective way. Everyone objectifies his or her projections. That is what people who believe in Heaven and Hell are doing. I would not call that “bad thinking”. I would say that they are thinking as all humans think, without the benefit of thinking about their thinking. They are unaware of how their use of language is shaping their worldview. Most people are. In fact, I am virtually certain that there are many areas where I still do that. The reason I know that is that I catch myself doing it every day. So, to me, it is no wonder that most people, naturally unable to imagine a future without them, mistaking their fantasies for the real thing. I doubt most people are capable of doing otherwise.

In response to the original post…I think that you may underestimate just how sick and twisted Christianity is. I once did a study of the origins of the horror genre. The horror genre, as we know it, got its start with the Spanish Inquisition. Christianity takes the phenomenon that I described in the previous paragraphs, and uses it as a club to bully people into acting as if they believe what the bully claims to believe…and does not. True believers are the most dangerous, vile, disgusting creatures to ever walk the face of the Earth. They would have no problem killing every person who dares to question their house of cards. Why? Because they feel that is the only way they can keep fooling themselves. Since they are unable to do so, they project a God who will. Don’t be fooled by the apparent civility of Christians.

For a religion that preaches brotherly love and selflessness, we cannot hold a candle to their self-centeredness. The heart of the Christian religion is the belief in evil.

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

#311821 - 03/04/08 03:34 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Auge Offline

Registered: 12/06/07
Posts: 163
Loc: Germany
We want the good (relative to our own ethics) recieve praise and the bad recieve punishment. Combined with "people, naturally unable to imagine a future without them" (that's the point!), we have the reasonable ideals of heaven and hell. I have no problem with that.

But Heaven and hell as actual places with real life rules guiding who gets where and when is no longer an ideal, it's a legal issue.
And all legal texts subsequently spawn filthy attorneys who rape them. That's the way of the world.

Physical heaven and hell are bad ideas. Creating them was bad, allthough utterly human, thinking. Accepting them uncritically is bad, allthough utterly human, judgement.

Maybe I missed a point, but I think we're in agreement here, aren't we?
Alle Wesen bisher schufen etwas über sich hinaus: und ihr wollt die Ebbe dieser großen Flut sein und lieber noch zum Tiere zurückgehn, als den Menschen überwinden?
- Friedrich Nietzsche

#313163 - 03/09/08 06:28 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
RavenEye666 Offline

Registered: 03/06/08
Posts: 29
Loc: Derbyshire, United Kingdom
I feel often times those of the Right Hand path get so caught up in their spiritual delusions that they fail to see they are already dwelling in their definition of "Hell" due to the fact that they deny themselves these rewarding carnal pleasures. Heaven for them is what they are "supposed to" strive for, but I bet if any of them were actually able to step away from their delusion long enough to give an actual well-thought out answer, instead of the robotic dribble they constatnly proliferate, they'd all be pretty raring and ready to hop on that bus to Hell.

Trouble is, those of the Right Hand path have a deep seated phobia towards honesty, and would much rather abide in their self-denial and misery. At one time I felt sorry for these individuals, until I found they did it out of sheer preference. Now I merely roll my eyes whenever one of these types starts in on me about Heaven. The place does sound awfully boring.

After all, who wouldn't rather go to a kick ass party with awsome people and the best music for all eternity?

I'll take the party thank you very much!
Take heed of the raven's call...
Hail Satan!

#313171 - 03/09/08 07:31 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
DevilsFoodCake Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/09/06
Posts: 440
Loc: Redwood Coast
Unintelligent people came up with, and believe in, the notion of heaven and hell. I have no interest in further discussing dim-witted people or their conceptualized version of reality.
Hail Satan!

Minds are like parachutes, they work best when open.

With very few absolute truths in the world know this; wherever you go, there you are.

Satanism is not clothing to be worn,
It is within you when you are born.

#313192 - 03/09/08 08:50 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: DevilsFoodCake]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
According to My upbringing in the Church, Hell is a lake of fire SO HOT that you cannot see the flames burning.

It is a bottomless pit that is pitch black where you are constantly falling. (Eve snickers when she recalls Bill And Ted's Bogus Journey where they go to Hell and are falling in the darkness playing twenty questions) Thirst is never quenched and the worms never die.

Many Xtians believe that the reason Hell was made to be so terrible
in the first place is because God understood that he created man in his own image therefore making us 'mini-gods' and that if Hell were not painful enough.........We would eventually find a way to get ourselves out (escape).

God is too lazy for two Armageddons I suppose.

Either way, I don't feel that either exist and more importantly I don't care if they exist or not.
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?

"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.

#314366 - 03/13/08 09:50 AM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: zodiac]
DFJ Offline

Registered: 03/13/08
Posts: 6
Loc: Denmark
 Originally Posted By: zodiac
Christians often use fear to motivate their followers hence the grizzly depictions. Maybe they could use some of that imagination for something actually constructive. In fact the holy shit bible does not even give a detailed description. These pictures are nothing but pure imagination.

As is the rest of the bible in my opinion, not just the pictures!
Take care to get what you like!
Or you will be forced to like what you get!

#316291 - 03/20/08 01:54 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: phoenixrisen]
Zardex Offline

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
 Originally Posted By: phoenixrisen
I have even come across FAQ websites devoted to (attempting to) convince people that doing nothing but worshipping God for eternity will be so much fun, honest

This made me laugh. Poor things wasting away their lives in hopes of wasting away an eternity after.

 Originally Posted By: Ygraine
The problem is that it reinforces the sheep like need to waste life by applying importance to death.

With the exception of allowing living talent an outlet for creativity, spending a minute of LIFE contemplating DEATH is a waste.

Agreed in a sense but it's important to add that the fear of death is a real instinctual emotion worth contemplation of the kind to learn to understand the nature of that fear and accept it as it is in order to be free of it and not have it dictate how you live your life.

Also the masses who draw their philosophy from this fear of death come up with colorful delusions giving rational fellow members of their spices something to occasionally laugh about, although they are boring most of the time. And even though they may cause trouble in society they are easy to over maneuver and make a mass of ignorant people among which success comes easy to those deserving.

Edited by Zardex (03/20/08 07:07 PM)
Edit Reason: Also...
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

#316309 - 03/20/08 02:38 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Desertman]
ModernTantalus Offline

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 325
I've often thought the same of The Divine Comedy. I tried reading it and found The Inferno to be quite creative and enjoyable. I only made it about half way through Purgatorio before getting bored and putting it down. I looked ahead to heaven, which has 7 layers. Each layer was the same. The only thing differentiating one from the next was its proximity to God, so I didn't bother reading it. I think the reason why Christians can't be creative about heaven is because they feel so guilty about any sorts of pleasures. Imagining a paradise without pleasures does kind of limit the imagination.

#316312 - 03/20/08 02:45 PM Re: On how Christians view heaven and hell [Re: Adveser]
Zardex Offline

Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
 Originally Posted By: Adveser
Good and Evil are the decisions of men, not absolute concepts.

This is an old idea predating Christianity like many good ideas do.
The first person who dared to openly, defiantly and publicly present this idea in his philosophy since after Christianity took hold was Baruch Spinoza in 17th century medieval time.
"Sin cannot be conceived in a natural state, but only in a civil state, where it is decreed by common consent what is good or bad."
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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