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#320194 - 04/11/08 11:54 AM Law of Attraction
Lord Xolothi Offline


Registered: 09/25/05
Posts: 38
Loc: Italia
Someone know "The Law of Attraction"?
Many books have written about it,since the times of Napoleon Hill and more recently the bestseller "The Secret".
What are your opinion about this misterious "Law of Attraction"?It is an natural phenomenon of quantistic physics or another New Age mumbo jumboo?

Memento Audere Semper

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#320197 - 04/11/08 12:04 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Lord Xolothi]
foreverlearning Offline


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 104
I have had discussions about this with my instuctor while training in martial arts. I believe it is just part of having the correct mentality when doing something. If you truely believe that you are going to fail at something, or that you will never get it, then you are less likely to try to go out and get it yourself. Because you are less likely to go get it yourself, you are less likely to get it. So because you don't think you will get it, you will not. It works the other way with believing you can achieve something, you are more likely to go out and try your best to get it, increasing your odds of actually getting it.
I think that the law just skips a step.
Step 1. want something with all your might.
step 2. have it.
I think it should be
step 1. want something with all your might.
step 2. go try your hardest to get it.
step 3. have it.
just my thoughts.


Edited by foreverlearning (04/11/08 12:04 PM)

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#320202 - 04/11/08 12:43 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Lord Xolothi]
C.F. Kane Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/21/08
Posts: 257
Loc: Bat City
"A lot o' people don't realize what's really going on. They view life as a bunch o' unconnected incidents 'n things. They don't realize that there's this, like, lattice o' coincidence that lays on top o' everything. Give you an example; show you what I mean: suppose you're thinkin' about a plate o' shrimp. Suddenly someone'll say, like, plate, or shrimp, or plate o' shrimp out of the blue, no explanation. No point in lookin' for one, either. It's all part of a cosmic unconciousness."

- Miller, Repo Man (1984)

It could very well be useful, and perhaps evidence of manipulating your life in accordance with your will. We already have a term and action plan for that...

As it stands, or at least as is my understanding, it is a very theosophical idea. One, in which if I am my own god I have no issue with. But, again we already have a term and action plan for that...

I have found what works for me, and quite often get all the "shrimp" I need.
_________________________
"This is my body which is broken for you, this do in remembrance of me." - I Cor. 11:24

"Let us endeavor so to live that when we come to die even the undertaker will be sorry." -Mark Twain

"Maybe I'll make some teeth and whiskers." -C.F. Kane


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#320209 - 04/11/08 01:29 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Lord Xolothi]
evalUate Offline


Registered: 04/26/05
Posts: 47
Loc: Michigan
In one word: FOCUS
Every nuance of human features, gestures and personality recognized from someone of your past associated with positive interaction, will subtly mingle to influence your attraction in another. When you meet someone who’s attributes pings any of those previous conscience or unconscious memories, there is some form of emotional charge initiated in that recognition. When you are able to focus some or several of those emotional charges into a force, there is true attraction… a force so powerful, we Satanists use it as a religious tool. For us, this focused force in not restricted to being used just for sexual outlet, but also harnessed into many creative endeavors.

Today, I honor the Man, Anton Szandor LaVey, on the anniversary of his birth. He brought that focus from my unconscious to the surface, and gave me a vehicle to use it to my fullest advantage. I thank him and praise him and miss his presence in my life!

HAIL DR. LAVEY!
HAIL SATAN!
-Nadine


Edited by evalUate (04/11/08 01:36 PM)

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#320305 - 04/12/08 04:22 AM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Lord Xolothi]
Philotechnic Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 745
Loc: NC, US
I think this Law of Attraction thing has something to it.

I seem to be involuntarily attracted to rational things. laugh

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#320319 - 04/12/08 07:27 AM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Lord Xolothi]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
I think the Law of Attraction is a brilliant popular euphemism for "Magic"- who some people still think is heresy.
And I believe the principles of magic are simply applied self-transforming psychology.
"The Secret" is that same applied psychology, just covered in a sugar-coating of hippy bullshit.
Lavey was on to the basic laws of magic long ago, but only recently the media found an ingenious way to make it a huge pop hit (I'll give it credit for that).
And it did it simply by ignoring the Balance Factor (thus feeding the herd with the most craved-for delusion of adequacy).
So it's not that the Law of Attraction isn't valid, it's that the context it's in that is crucially lacking.
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#320350 - 04/12/08 12:35 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: The_Lightning]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
It is most definitely new age mambo jumbo if presented in a way as if the universe would have some form of consciousness. If you have watched clips from the movie then be aware that it has partially the same makers who made the pseudo documentary called "what the bleep do we know".

They are well known to interview scientists and edit the comments out of their original content.

Knowing the theories many of these scientists are known to have talked about it is not about effecting the universe but effecting your own psyche by effecting how you observe your surroundings and what catches your attention.

As in the example about the plate of shrimp it is not a coincidence at all.
Were you to think about a plate of shrimp right before someone seas "plate of shrimp" you would very certainly take note of this occurrence where as if you had not and they would have said "plate of shrimp" you would not have payed attention to it.

This is kind of like the Murphy's Law turned around.

Once again quantum physics has nothing at all to do with it. It is irrational to allow the unknowns of quantum physics to inspire to draw conclusions about some presumed paranormal that would take place outside the quantum scale.


Edited by Zardex (04/13/08 12:59 AM)
Edit Reason: I am not sure how this ended up as a reply to The_Lightning, I agree to what she sead about self-transforming psychology and I meant to reply to the thread in general.
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#320416 - 04/12/08 10:40 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Zardex]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062

I'll be short :

people are boring.

Replacing a word by another one and think it is called "evolution".

While the " online elite" is masturbating his mind, some have results.

Those debating with words are those in front of closed doors.
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#320419 - 04/12/08 11:07 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Assabrah]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
Unexplained results are no proof of paranormal. Belief is the worst enemy of knowledge.
I think I've heard from somewhere a saying "test everything but believe nothing".
You don't have to have faith in paranormal to witness and work with the "paranormal".
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#320421 - 04/12/08 11:19 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Zardex]
Assabrah Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 01/17/05
Posts: 2062
Quote:
Unexplained results are no proof of paranormal. Belief is the worst enemy of knowledge.


Wait a minute, what are you talking about here ?

This is a Satanic forum. This is more than obvious to lucid people here that the belief is the fruit of experience.

But hey, thanks for the lesson there ! .....
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#320424 - 04/12/08 11:34 PM The Law of Attraction - Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies. [Re: Lord Xolothi]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12552
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Ladies and gentlemen, "The Law of Attraction" by that same name was first mentioned by William Walter Atkinson in his 1906 best-selling book Thought Vibrations or the Law of Attraction in the Thought World.

After that it has been also treated by name by many people to include Ernest Holmes in his 1926 book Basic Ideas of Science of Mind and in 1949, by Dr. Raymond Holliwell in his book Working with the Law.

Then starting in the early 1990's, Jerry and Esther Hicks began publishing "channeled" information about the Law of Attraction, and wrote several popular books on the subject (one entitled The Law of Attraction in 2006).

In the summer of 2007, The Secret was on the New York Times bestseller list as a book, a CD and a DVD movie. The author was Rhonda Byrne who learned about The Law of Attraction in a book The Science of Getting Rich written by Wallace D. Wattles in 1910.

However, while not described by that name, the Law of Attraction was actually one of the seven Hermetic Laws which have been around in documented form since about 800 AD in the Kitab Sirr al-Asrar also known as The Emerald Tablet of Hermes Trismegistus.

Over 300 years ago Sir Isaac Newton (yes, THE Isaac Newton) expressed it this way in his translation of the Emerald Tablet:

“That which is below is like that which is above and that which is above is like that which is below to do the miracles of one only thing.”

In my own words, the Law of Attraction simply states that what you mentally expect to happen will tend to physically take place.

It doesn't matter whether you think it is accurate or nonsense. It is however knee-deep in magic and depends upon the idea that thoughts can directly influence things.

So if you wish to reinterpret it as merely "positive thinking" that might motivate you to do something different in a normal manner then please remember that that's just fine but it isn't what these old time alchemists and magicians or modern New Age gurus are talking about.

The Law of Attraction is based on magical thinking.

It usually fails most people because they truly do not understand the real secret behind "The Secret".

The secret I am referring to is not the suggestion that it is all "mumbo jumbo". That view will only produce self-fulfilling prophesy with regard to results - you won't get any.

The secret I am referring to is also not the simplistic assumption that believing (or trying to believe) that your thoughts will magnetically attract what you want will make that happen.

The secret I am referring to requires two things.

First, you have to not forget about past orthodoxies, such as just exactly where the Law of Attraction came from, who said what about it when, and how it ended up in the current presentation we see just about everywhere now.

Second, you have to understand that perhaps what you think you are doing when you claim to really desire something is not what you are actually doing at all.

But meaningful discussions of applied magic are reserved for the members-only forums on this messageboard.

So I will respect that and simply stop here.

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#320429 - 04/13/08 12:03 AM Re: The Law of Attraction - Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies. [Re: Nemo]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
Originally Posted By: Nemo
The secret I am referring to is not the suggestion that it is all "mumbo jumbo". That view will only produce self-fulfilling prophesy with regard to results - you won't get any.


I am merely stating the obvious that belief in paranormal just because you can't explain it is mambo jumbo, not that the mechanism itself is.

You do not have to limit yourself with beliefs about why certain things occur in certain ways in order to manipulate them and take benefit from them.

You do not need a belief in why something works in order to know from experience that somehow it does, and it's better to remain open to evidence, because that way you get a better view of exactly how it works.
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#320451 - 04/13/08 06:07 AM Re: The Law of Attraction - Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies. [Re: Nemo]
Risen08 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/31/08
Posts: 197
"Nemo steps to the plate. Here's the pitch...swing and he drives it towards center field...it's going, going, GONE!!!"

Another homerun Magister. Hail!
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"With heart and hand I pledge you while I load my gun again, you will never be forgotten or the enemy forgiven, my good comrade..."
(The Satanic Promise, by Anton Szandor LaVey)
It's time to kick some ass!


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#320552 - 04/13/08 04:44 PM Re: The Law of Attraction - Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies. [Re: Risen08]
Mr Avarice Offline



Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 991
Loc: Scandinavia
I found that one hard to visualize. grin

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#320606 - 04/14/08 01:12 AM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Philotechnic]
DCLXVI Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 1064
Loc: U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: Wolf Landon
I think this Law of Attraction thing has something to it.

I seem to be involuntarily attracted to rational things. laugh


As evidenced by your presence here. And the fact that you are a Satanist. Correct?
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"Churches may close and old shepherds may die, but the herd will always be the herd."
Reverend Bill


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#320923 - 04/15/08 11:15 AM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Zardex]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10122
You're pretty much on track by saying that in the quest to find some justification for believing that paranormal things can happen, or some reason to believe that one really IS special, people like to contort science to fit the mold that spirituality used to fill. It's an ill fit but it doesn't stop some from trying - very hard, in fact.

Replace the old mumbo jumbo spellbooks with modern mumbo jumbo references to obscure pseudo-science. Replace magic words with science terms that laymen probably don't really understand. Replace the ether with quantum physics. Replace belief in god and heaven with belief in personal greatness and immortality. It's the exact same formula in a new set of clothes - a lab coat instead of a wizard's robe, unfortunately.

I never do get it myself. Launching a fucking rocket to the moon wasn't cool enough? Cloning sheep doesn't impress you? We're already doing some pretty magical stuff without the need to invent anything or look under every rock for something of dubious value, much less contort ideas like quantum physics into something it's not.
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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#320944 - 04/15/08 01:07 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
Quote:
I never do get it myself. Launching a fucking rocket to the moon wasn't cool enough? Cloning sheep doesn't impress you? We're already doing some pretty magical stuff without the need to invent anything or look under every rock for something of dubious value, much less contort ideas like quantum physics into something it's not.


Because individuals aren't doing cool things, but people with a significant skill, applied in ways that create some pretty damn neat things.

But, deep down, the layman knows he isn't special, not even remotely. I like to think of it in terms of effective methods to propagate the species. If the majority of the population fully accepted their meaninglessness - that cold, harsh reality - they'd rape and rampage, then shoot themselves. A cannibalistic system failure. Fantasies and rationalizations to keep people feeling special function to keep the system working. That's how I see it most days anyway.

On a side note, I don't think Satanists are different from the rest in that way, I just think we more intuitively create our own meaning, whether we'd ever heard of TSB or not. That, coupled with an innate sense of pride in our ethics, would prevent our personal systems from failing.

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#322984 - 04/22/08 07:16 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Zaftig]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
I now understand Magister Nemo's point better as well, and I agree it is more then "just" positive thinking.

By the way. Thank you for your patience of my ignorance. Most here have read Satanic literature where I am just now beginning, and beginning to understand why science and philosophy is no substitute for it.

Still nothing supernatural of cause and nothing that would not have a scientific mechanism even while that mechanism may not be completely known.
And also not something I would be satisfied with an invented sorry excuse of a "scientific" explanation. I agree to Priest LeviathanXIII's interpretation of my meaning in that.
The strength of the scientific method is in it's tolerance of the unknown. Bad scientists are always the ones who are too eager to know answers instead of being comfortable with the mysteries.
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"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#362815 - 11/28/08 06:17 PM Re: The Law of Attraction - Forgetfulness of Past Orthodoxies. [Re: Nemo]
Warlock Atreus Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Dallas TX
Originally Posted By: Nemo

In my own words, the Law of Attraction simply states that what you mentally expect to happen will tend to physically take place.

That one line from Magister Nemo pretty much covers everything there is to know about the Law of Attraction.

If I focus on something I desire (not just that I want it, but that I already have it), more of it will head my way. It could be through my choices, or actions, or out of the blue. If I am moving toward something or something is moving toward me is arbitrary (and actually just a relative perspective). It is about putting yourself in a mindset of having it and finding the place inside of yourself where you feel you already have it.

It is not a great leap of logic to see that this would have ritual implications. If performing a ritual puts you in a mindset of having what you desire, then it will be effective in helping you achieve your goals. I don't suggest repeating what did not work for you thinking that repetition will make it work.

Faith healers have long utilized the subject's faith and belief in the actions of the healer to do so. An extension of this is the person who picks up the car that has fallen on their child. It doesn't occur to them that they can't do it. The martial artist who puts themselves in the mindset that allows them to pass their hand through a surface harder than their hand does this.

For some, vestments and sacred texts and strict application of proscribed actions puts them in that place. For others, meditation does it. For others, visualization does it. There are many techniques for doing this. Find what works for you. According to the readings I've done, an important clue is how much you enjoy the process.

It is similar to the process of learning to sing or play flute or produce a pitch running your wet finger over a crystal glass. There are many techniques taught and many analogies and images used to describe these processes. The bottom line is to find the technique that causes you to produce the sound you desire. Try running your wet finger across the rim of a crystal glass or blowing across the opening of a Coke bottle. You try different angles and pressures until you accidentally stumble upon the method that produces the sound you desire. Then you polish the technique around that successful accident to become consistent at it.

"Do, or do not. There is no try." -- Jedi Master Yoda
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Atreus
The better it gets, the better it gets.

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#363133 - 11/30/08 02:36 PM awesome show. great job [Re: Warlock Atreus]
ArtAche86 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Cthulhu's Bowels,Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Atreus
Faith healers have long utilized the subject's faith and belief in the actions of the healer to do so. An extension of this is the person who picks up the car that has fallen on their child. It doesn't occur to them that they can't do it. The martial artist who puts themselves in the mindset that allows them to pass their hand through a surface harder than their hand does this.


Nailed it...
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#363264 - 12/01/08 12:25 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: DCLXVI]
Amberpocalypse Offline



Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Arizona
I personally believe in the Law of Attraction. I was raised by a terribly hypocritical, verbally & physically abusive stepmother. Oh, did I mention she's a christian? We went to church every sunday, and seemed like the church poster family or something. I tried to find "jesus", I begged for relief from her reign of terror. I got none. So in my head, I formed (what I thought was) the perfect "religion" or belief system, not knowing it was all in print, thanks to Mr. Lavey! I literally dreamed about the perfect life, thousands of miles away from my stepmom, living with my uncle or grandparents. After the last abusive straw from my dad, this is exactly what happened. Now, I DO live thousands of miles away from the demon I called "mom", and haven't spoken to her in years. Then I read The Secret, after TSB, and I kind of like utilizing ideas from BOTH books. Now, if I want/need something, I see it happening because I KNOW that I have the power to achieve what I need, and then I do the damn work to achieve it!
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#363291 - 12/01/08 03:32 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Amberpocalypse]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I have heard of the book, of course, but I have not read it. But on the subject of the will, which is what I assume we are talking about, it is amazing what can happen once someone actually makes up their mind about what they really want.

Most cannot, or will not, do that. I do not know if it is lack of initiative, lack of imagination or if, perhaps, some have a congenital defect in that area. I am actually coming to the conclusion that the latter is a reality. Though I think good old fashioned laziness is the issue for the majority. Once you have to have something, I have found it seems as if there is a magnet around you.

I truly do not know if we simply notice things related to that desire that were always there, or if perhaps more is at play here. Subjectively, it often appears to be more.
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#364435 - 12/08/08 04:24 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Sinestro Offline
BANNED

Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 19
I've used this a number of times not realizing it. Still, not sure how it works. Using, the will or something. Putting out certain brain waves or thoughts.

Like driving a car I get in turn the key it runs. I get from point A to B. I have know idea how the engine works though.

I'm ready for the flame thrower again! Use Remote Influence Techniques. They list the law of attraction as one of their rules I believe I read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_viewing
http://www.geocities.com/area51/cavern/9912/remotev.htm
http://www.probablefuture.com/p558.htm
http://www.remoteinfluence.com/

Sinesto!

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#365170 - 12/12/08 04:42 PM Re: Law of Attraction [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
SinisterSLA6669 Offline


Registered: 12/25/07
Posts: 72
Loc: Bay Area, California
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
it is amazing what can happen once someone actually makes up their mind about what they really want.


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if one can pull aside the curtain of fear and enter the Kingdom of Shadows, the eyes will soon become accustomed and many strange and wonderful TRUTHS will be seen.


ASLV
TSR
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