Page 8 of 14 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 13 14 >
Topic Options
#345103 - 08/10/08 12:34 PM Re: Love [Re: Zardex]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
Once you start doubting and dwelling upon it, the magic is gone.
Love itself is one sort of intellectual decompression, when one comes to think of it.

What is magic if not a feeling of harmony and a world of conflict?


Edited by The_Lightning (08/10/08 12:37 PM)
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

Top
#345105 - 08/10/08 12:40 PM Re: Love [Re: The_Lightning]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Originally Posted By: The_Lightning

Love itself is one sort of intellectual decompression


I agree wholeheartedly, but I have learned it must be tempered with the same honesty as is used in the ritual chamber.
_________________________
"Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."
Charles Mackay - 1814-1889
Scottish poet, journalist, and song writer.

Top
#345109 - 08/10/08 12:52 PM Re: Love [Re: shadowraven213]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
you don't say....!

boy have I learned that the hard way.
Yes, in the end one MUST consider the logic of the love one feels, for if not he is doomed to experience tragedy.

There is great danger in absolute love- total blindness and dedication.
If it doesn't choke your partner, it might choke your Self first.
One day you might look back and realized you have compromised so much for the other, you cannot love your self anymore.

It's all about the balance factor... as we know.
_________________________
There is no such thing as evolution - Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.

Top
#345110 - 08/10/08 12:57 PM Re: Love [Re: shadowraven213]
Danielle Alicia
Unregistered


Well, and this is something I consider as only my opinion and not as any type of fact, love is as complicated to me as trying to figure out what justice, time or anger really are. Having said that, I have always personally defined love as: mere recognition and total acceptance. This definition has worked for me, but I think every person will ultimately define love and other ideas or emotions in whatever way currently suits their experiences and education.

What I have been talking with others about lately is that really powerful, sudden attraction we sometimes get for another in life. It seems most people have had this feeling at some point. I experienced it once when I was about 20. I wonder what its evolutionary purpose is, does it have to be reciprocal, and is it a necessary ingredient for a strong sense of love? Is it just sexual? How often does it play into fetishes we harbor? Is it pheromone based or can it happen with no sense of smell? Does it have to be visual? Do the blind (not blind in the metaphorical sense, lol) experience it, etc?

Lots of questions, that is for sure. As I said, love (and attractions) can be very complicated issues.

Top
#345362 - 08/11/08 09:17 AM Re: Love [Re: ]
Seth Lucius Offline


Registered: 08/08/08
Posts: 56
Loc: New Jersey, USA
There is always some madness in love. But there is also always some reason in madness.
Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900), "On Reading and Writing"
_________________________
"Christianity was from the beginning, essentially and fundamentally, life's nausea and disgust with life, merely concealed behind, masked by, dressed up as, faith in "another" or "better" life." - Nietzsche's The Birth of Tragedy, p.23, Walter Kaufmann transl.


"Only the dead have seen the end of war" - Plato


"In heaven all the interesting people are missing." - Friedrich Nietzsche (1844 - 1900)


"The more the fruits of knowledge become accessible to men, the more widespread is the decline of religious belief." - Sigmund Freud (1856 - 1939), The Future of an Illusion (1927)

Top
#345408 - 08/11/08 11:21 AM Re: Love [Re: Zardex]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1685
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Zardex
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
And in my opinion, that is the meaning of life - to turn it into magic like art can be, not to look at it like at a mathematical formula.


Thank you. That's a very enlightening way to put it.

Only one thing I find disagreeable. Why can't a lie be something beautiful?
Why must you believe that love is "true" in order to feel how magical it is?



I believe that you cannot lie about feelings if you have them, and if they are real.

Top
#345419 - 08/11/08 12:05 PM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: LightAngel


I believe that you cannot lie about feelings if you have them, and if they are real.



Indeed. Emotions are not propositions that are either true or false.

Incidentally...I do not consider emotions things. I see them as events, with the possibility of action. They are the chemical result of our reactions to stimuli. Think of the weather.

I suspect that someone has already reduced emotions into descrete types, much like taste. Perhaps attraction and aversion.

But, on the subject of love...I am certain most experience the event perhaps many times per day, depending on their social interactions. In its pure form, I once fell in love with a girl I saw the total of 30 seconds. I was on a trip, stopped at a rest area, and a barefooted blonde in a pair of shorts stepped out of a van, lifted her arms into the air, lifted onto her toes and stretched. That was 25 years ago, and I remember every detail. My action is the periodic remembering.

The action taken with my wife was a commitment, followed by daily reaffirming that commitment.
That in no way, shape or form means that I do not experience what is called love toward other people. It simply means that my actions toward them are different.
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#345421 - 08/11/08 12:13 PM Re: Love [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Danielle Alicia
Unregistered


Interesting post, Roho. I think we may be in accord on this. I often say that my love for everyone is the same, it is only the expression of it that is different for each. Love, to me, is an absolute quality; it just is. But, the symptoms, the expressions, the actions if you will, are all what change. I have never seen degrees of love, nor different types of it. To me, it is not possible to love a little more or a little less. However, it is possible to change my degree of expression of said love thereby giving the illusion of loving someone "more." This is simply my opinion.
Thoughts?



Edited by Danielle Alicia (08/11/08 12:14 PM)

Top
#345433 - 08/11/08 12:39 PM Re: Love [Re: ]
Evening Rain Offline


Registered: 08/09/08
Posts: 155
All of my immediate family are psychic vampires and I feel absolutely no love for them at all. It is difficult to even like them. And my father is a brutal mindfuck. But many folks I have met since I've grown up I find quite interesting. The interactions produce love. I can even experience many natural highs depending on how often I interact.

Top
#345437 - 08/11/08 01:05 PM Re: Love [Re: ]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Danielle Alicia
Interesting post, Roho. I think we may be in accord on this. I often say that my love for everyone is the same, it is only the expression of it that is different for each. Love, to me, is an absolute quality; it just is. But, the symptoms, the expressions, the actions if you will, are all what change. I have never seen degrees of love, nor different types of it. To me, it is not possible to love a little more or a little less. However, it is possible to change my degree of expression of said love thereby giving the illusion of loving someone "more." This is simply my opinion.
Thoughts?




First, happy Birthday! As for your post, I have a question. I think you are saying that the love you experience for everyone that you love is the same. Not that you love everyone. Am I correct? If so, my response is that the depth of love I experience is based on the investment that I have put into it. So, initially, love is love is love; but my investment of time, and the value of my return, will change my experience with that particular person. While I use romantic language and tell my wife that I cannot live without her, I am really saying that I have invested quite a bit into our relationship, and would feel the loss quite acutely. Also, I would have to look long and hard to find anyone coming close to being as ideal. She is a blonde, double D monogamous nymphomaniac with an IQ of 160 whose goal, among other things, is to see me happy. So, I have received large dividends for my investment.

You said: To me, it is not possible to love a little more or a little less.
That fits in with what I said about love not being a thing or object. As one Rev says about Satanism, it is a verb. But, I do find that the profundity varies. It is not static. I also find that my experiences of it have deepened as I have aged.

And by aged, I mean having grown up. To be quite honest, my wife married a boy, but now has a man. There is a vast difference between needing someone and loving someone. I would hope she would have had the good sense to get out if that had not changed. And it works the other way, too. She had needs.

Is that close to what you were thinking?
_________________________
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces

http://theepicureandilettante.blogspot.com/

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

Top
#345441 - 08/11/08 01:25 PM Re: Love [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Danielle Alicia
Unregistered


Yes, it is exactly as I feel. The experience of love can either be more intense or much less by our involvement (among a few other factors) in it.
And yes, you are correct: I didn't mean that I love everyone, I meant everyone I love. Sorry for any confusion. smile I actually have very few people in my life I would say I love.

Top
#345442 - 08/11/08 01:26 PM Re: Love [Re: Evening Rain]
Danielle Alicia
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: Daark Angel
All of my immediate family are psychic vampires and I feel absolutely no love for them at all. It is difficult to even like them. And my father is a brutal mindfuck. But many folks I have met since I've grown up I find quite interesting. The interactions produce love. I can even experience many natural highs depending on how often I interact.

I agree with you about family. I cannot stand most of my family either. I have very few people in my life that I love. I think your father and mine would get along great.

Top
#345590 - 08/12/08 06:36 AM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Originally Posted By: Zardex
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
And in my opinion, that is the meaning of life - to turn it into magic like art can be, not to look at it like at a mathematical formula.

Thank you. That's a very enlightening way to put it.

Only one thing I find disagreeable. Why can't a lie be something beautiful?
Why must you believe that love is "true" in order to feel how magical it is?

I believe that you cannot lie about feelings if you have them, and if they are real.

Yes if you feel the feeling then the feeling is obviously there.

However every meaning you give to the feeling is of your own making, a story about the significance of the feeling, since it is not the feeling itself.
It is, I feel, an empowering principle in magic to understand that you have the weapon of choice over the significance you give to the streams of your emotions.

It is how you can become aware that emotions are not just a stream that runs through you but a stream of your own making, for the benefit of your own unconscious layers of the self.
Emotions are simply a fuel to your will and it's up to you how conscious you want to be about the sources, wants and goals of that will.

Now I haven't stated that I hold these meanings you give to emotions as insignificant, even if you're not in control of them, simply that they are subject to your choice and as such they are just stories.
I am also not saying one can always know the truth about emotions and truly control them, quite the contrary I believe truth itself to be a lie.

What I am saying is that you do not have to believe in the truth of the stories you choose to go by in order to enjoy them. If you are in a relationship that is sound and functional for your purpose then the "truth" of the feelings you can experience in it shouldn't matter. If by magic and skillful lies you can construct more love then why shouldn't you? What in this world is of meaning if it is not a lie?

Believing in the emotion itself as some kind of higher power can be dangerous, but being afraid to step in to the unknown can lead to a life utterly wasted away.
You don't have to do either! You can step to the unknown and allow it to remain unknown and understand as much as you can from it.

Yes we need significance and we will give it to our lives but we do not have to believe that our lies are the reality. We can live in doubt can we not? Are we not strong enough?

You do not have to be limited to the ignorance of the conscious self and the magic of love is not an exception that cannot be understood at all.

The magic of an opera is not lessened by knowing it's fantasy and neither is the magic of the ritual chamber.
The results, the emotions are real, even if you can go about controlling it and knowing the difference between fantasy and reality.

Originally Posted By: The_Lightning
Once you start doubting and dwelling upon it, the magic is gone.
Love itself is one sort of intellectual decompression, when one comes to think of it.

What is magic if not a feeling of harmony and a world of conflict?


There is a difference between intellectual decompression and ignorance.

What I think intellectual decompression is, and what I understand is Anton LaVey's definition for it in TSB, is that it's deliberately stepping outside the rational realm to bask in the glory of your emotional dimensions.
It's a deliberate act to do something you see as beneficial to your life.
It's not about forgetting the difference between fantasy and reality.

I find love many times more powerful and more productive when I understand more about the reasons my minds summon it. (Yes we all have more then one mind.)
I do not see ignorance as bliss. To me, loving ignorantly would be a wasted love. I do not have to know why I feel love every time I feel it but I don't have to believe in any specific reason, I do not have to cast away my doubt and take up some love religion in order to enjoy this powerful feeling and inspiration in life.
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

Top
#345591 - 08/12/08 07:05 AM Re: Love [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Incidentally...I do not consider emotions things. I see them as events, with the possibility of action. They are the chemical result of our reactions to stimuli. Think of the weather.

From a cognitive neurology point of view it is more accurate to say that emotions are things we tend to do in different weather.

Our brain receives stimuli, yes, but stimuli is not what we react to, at least if by "we" you mean emotions and our conscious perception of "the self". (with the exception of some reflexive reactions)
What we "react to" and "feel" is more an invention of our own imagination, or what someone might call the legion of unconscious minds.

They are basically different thought factories of different functions not limited to some that unzip, unpack and decode, others that add detail and fill in odd spots and holes, others that look up and modify guide posts and maps that aid in recognizing thoughts and shapes and what have you, and some throw out conflicting material or store alternate options or secret decoding mechanisms and secret logic that is useful to go by but isn't practical for our awareness to ponder.

And of cause there is more different communication between more different minds that can yet be known. That's why when we see something our brain has already thought a million different things we could have seen and decided that what wee see was the best, most conforming hallucination to what the legion of our minds sees fit for our consciousness to believe as reality.

Different "thinkers" in our brain are constantly coming up with maps, guide posts and filters about different things, and given certain stimuli a certain selection of those things is more powerfully echoed forward, from which an incredibly small portion is due to some unknown method perceived as "conscious thought".

Those maps, signs and guide posts however are not completely beyond "our" control but are adaptive to our understanding of the world although a large part of those maps do have some features which are there from birth.

Now back to emotions; some filters, maps and guide posts will echo onward to the limbic system (especially amygdala) and have emotional significance attached to them, thus becoming what might be called a feeling in layman terms, but that echo also carries forward through yet another set of filters and guide posts once again, and once again returns to the limbic system, and it can be doing that in different places, perhaps more or less energized and bouncing from the noisy emotion generating limbic system(just my suspicion) and no one knows exactly when and how it becomes an "experience of a feeling", but that's where our understanding of the world and ourselves once again can have significant effect on what we "feel".
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

Top
#345613 - 08/12/08 08:58 AM Re: Love [Re: Fnord]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1685
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: skullfarmer
All of magic occurs in the void spaces between thoughts.


You know about pleasure witch

Top
Page 8 of 14 < 1 2 ... 6 7 8 9 10 ... 13 14 >


Forum Stats
12218 Members
73 Forums
43998 Topics
406134 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements