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#329001 - 05/20/08 12:04 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: FalloutGod]
D. Macabre Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/02/06
Posts: 1539
Loc: The South Bay, CA
Originally Posted By: FalloutGod
Men have worn make up through history and still do in some tribal cultures. Tell them it's not masculine or manlike in nature.


The difference between you and those natives is that the natives have been using make up as part of century old traditions. For a lot of them it’s a means of survival for hunting and camouflaging themselves from an enemy as well as an intricate part of their tribal ceremonies, again these are century old traditions. They are not like yourself, they are not walking into Wal-Mart and buying a compact of Loreal and putting it on in order to get some attention.
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#329028 - 05/20/08 02:15 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: D. Macabre]
FalloutGod Offline
Intellectual Black Hole

Registered: 02/11/08
Posts: 566
But they are putting it on to get attention are they not? Touche. Remember the Egyptians? My point is what does make-up have to do with masculinity? Nothing other than in most modern cultures it has become associated to be feminine and to be only associated with females. Which it has not been so before, and nor is grooming directly inherent to females. Man have groomed and tried to look nice all throughout history. Even pirates had some sense of aesthetics and the notion that they did not is absurd. Is not one of the most famous of them Black Beard? He was known for his eccentric dress and over the top flamboyance. It served him well with the lasses and on raids in the sea.

Bah... I think my point is lost on ye land dwellers. I don't care if according to this definition I'm not masculine. Yet the damn thing claims that all but the dirty slobs are feminine. Least that is the gist of what I got. Sounds absurd to me to claim that men have a predisposition to only look like bums. I don't, and never had and nor do I see history support this ludicrous notion.


Edited by FalloutGod (05/20/08 02:32 PM)

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#329045 - 05/20/08 04:01 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: FalloutGod]
Nicolette Offline


Registered: 02/25/08
Posts: 192
Loc: Deutschland
Originally Posted By: FalloutGod
I don't care if according to this definition I'm not masculine.


Then stop trying to convince us that you wearing Maybelline is masculine. None of us landlubbers are buying it.

Yar.
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#329046 - 05/20/08 04:08 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: FalloutGod]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10122
So which tribe do you belong to?

Nor do I think warpaint and modern makeup expressly made for women quite equate. Nice try though.
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#329048 - 05/20/08 04:12 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Hagen von Tronje Offline

CoS Priest

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 10122
Wow, I really do see the resemblance...



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"The devil I'll bring you," answered Hagen. "I have enough to carry with my shield and breastplate; my helm is bright, the sword is in my hand, therefore I bring you naught."

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#329065 - 05/20/08 05:32 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: FalloutGod]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Originally Posted By: FalloutGod
I like my black eyeliner. My foundation and my eye shadow. Does it take away from my masculinity to wear make up? What the hell is masculinity anyway? Being buff? Physically fit? Being a stereotyped male? Herd conformity?


–adjective
1. pertaining to or characteristic of a man or men: masculine attire.
2. having qualities traditionally ascribed to men, as strength and boldness.
3. Grammar. noting or pertaining to the gender of Latin, Greek, German, French, Spanish, Hebrew, etc., which has among its members most nouns referring to males, as well as other nouns, as Spanish dedo, “finger,” German Bleistift, “pencil.”
4. (of a woman) mannish.
–noun Grammar.
5. the masculine gender.
6. a noun or other element in or marking that gender.

Is there something here you do not understand?

Being masculine implies that you are not trying to hide the fact that you have a penis.

Effeminization, either by choice or by societal imposition does indeed detract from a man's masculinity. End of argument.

In our, that is to imply Western society, the wearing of eyeliner and makeup is effeminate. It is an attempt to mask or hide the masculine features of the face and by association the identity of "male". If you want to break it down, it's like trying to hide your refrigerator by putting up some new curtains over your livingroom windows.

This has distinct and perhaps powerful Lesser Magic implications.

Rule of Thumb here. If you can pull it off and not look like a mook, more power to you. If not, suck it up and accept that your a guy or get some hormones and a boob job.

Nobody likes a gender-fuck.
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#329066 - 05/20/08 05:35 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
MissMina1556 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 1386
Loc: USA
This thread is totally confusing me. confused

OK, I need help with this one. I did not know men wore eyeliner. I'm serious. So, if they do wear eyeliner, why do they wear it?

When I look at the pictures right above here, I see the lower picture and at first glance I thought it was a woman. Yes, I have my glasses ON! Is it a young man? eek crazy confused confused
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#329079 - 05/20/08 06:44 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: MissMina1556]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Quote:
OK, I need help with this one. I did not know men wore eyeliner. I'm serious. So, if they do wear eyeliner, why do they wear it?

Because they are fruity pirate captains, or possibly pharoahs.


Attachments
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#329089 - 05/20/08 07:12 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: reprobate]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Many a moon ago I used to dye my hair black, used white paint on my face and painted my nails black too.

The women that I used to attract because of this certainly knew I was male.

Never wore eyeliner, for me it was a hint of black eyeshadow to draw attention to my eyes did the trick in a crowded club fixing her with a stare. Never failed for me.

Nothing like this current "emo" or "goth" thing, I suppose they spawned out of the British Gothic sub-culture and grunge intermixed.

It was an adult world and I was a little too young, it was mostly about vanity more than music at the end of it.I was however drawn to the attractive women and the music the "look" I found easy to pull off and didn't see what all the fuss was about.

I no longer wear make-up as I have found my own style as I matured but some people would still consider me a "goth" because I have long hair and still wear black.

In fact I look a little like Wolf Landon, my hair is about as long although a different color.

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#329106 - 05/20/08 09:29 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: reprobate]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.

It is interesting to note that eye makeup was as much about adornment as it was utilitarian.

First it helps absorb sunlight and secondly it kept the flies away.
_________________________
"Many people would sooner die than think - in fact, they do so." ~ Bertrand Russell

"“Let the future tell the truth, and evaluate each one according to his work and accomplishments. The present is theirs; the future, for which I have really worked, is mine.” ~ Nikola Tesla

Are You One of Us?

The Glorious Infernal Empire

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#329112 - 05/20/08 09:39 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
I shave my beard for work and I have never shaved it for a woman. I find women who like beards and tend to keep them around. It works out that way, but now I have to find a job that lets me keep my beard.
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"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

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#329133 - 05/20/08 11:00 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: Hagen von Tronje]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Quote:
Ah, but it is different for women. I've known a woman who wore makeup to bed (special night makeup no less!). I've known women who changed nail polish daily even when no one else was around. I've known plenty of women who disliked camping not because of the hardship but because it was not very good for their vanity.

Ok, I'm in shock. I didn't know women like this actually exist, outside of sitcoms that is. I consider myself to be girly and fairly vain, but I wouldn't entertain the thought of wearing makeup to bed or changing my nail polish daily. Hell, I'm thrilled if my manicure makes it a week.

I agree that women do things for ourselves and other women as much as we do it for men (I'm thinking bubble baths and various forms of pampering here). Unless a conversation is overheard about a midnight serenade, I can't fathom why someone would wear makeup to bed. That seems a little more like insecurity than vanity to me.

Maybe us yankee gals are just different.
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#329136 - 05/20/08 11:21 PM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: AurEum]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
I had a girlfriend who would paint her toe nails every day, even on days were she stayed home.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#329155 - 05/21/08 01:21 AM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: D. Macabre]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: D. Macabre
Originally Posted By: FalloutGod
Men have worn make up through history and still do in some tribal cultures. Tell them it's not masculine or manlike in nature.


The difference between you and those natives is that the natives have been using make up as part of century old traditions. For a lot of them it’s a means of survival for hunting and camouflaging themselves from an enemy as well as an intricate part of their tribal ceremonies, again these are century old traditions. They are not like yourself, they are not walking into Wal-Mart and buying a compact of Loreal and putting it on in order to get some attention.


I agree - to me the modern equivalent to the tribal painting of the face would be sports fans painting themselves with the colors of their team or music fans doing it to look like look like their idols.

To me using makeup is not something you can do to enhance your masculinity, and that means that at best you're not looking any less masculine, but I'd say that men who are able to do this are still a very small minority.
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#329163 - 05/21/08 03:48 AM Re: Modern Masculinity [Re: Nicolette]
Darkahn Offline


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 410
Loc: Florida, USA
Originally Posted By: Nicolette

Here is an interesting article on one man's opinion of Real Men.


Interesting article; he raises several valid points, although -- as I've said -- anyone who touts actors as champions of masculinity, and then says makeup is immasculine (there is no difference between the two, there is only a difference in the common styling), immediately looks like a complete joke.

Especially when they cheat on their wife, and then have them stroke their ego after getting back together. sick
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