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#327567 - 05/13/08 11:52 AM Re: Love Absolutely! [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
I agree and feel inspired to mention some things.

I like romantic love as a feeling, but to me the personal love of life is the most valuable kind of love.

I do not think I could be comfortable in a relationship where someone viewed the love of our relationship as anything resembling a supernatural force that dictates meaning in her life.

Romantic love involves powerful reproductive drives that can mess up your life if you let them. I think this kind of love by itself is probably best to be indulged within rationally established frames.
You do not have to be crazy over love to enjoy it.
(Note that I do not think you come across crazy, nor do I think it likely you'd disagree with what I am writing. I am just adding some things I think worth mentioning.)

I personally believe that when I can be honest and critical to myself about my own feelings and establish my own limitations to how much I am willing to give them significance, I am able to build much more meaningful and passionate romances then by falling head over heels in love.

I don't think you can find a "fantasy woman made flesh" before you can first be cynical enough about love as a feeling in order to see beyond it and actually establish rationally that the person you are falling in love with really is exceptionally fit for you rather then just feels to be.

But as I said I agree with you that such romantic love can be as real as you describe it.
I have experienced much the kind of feeling you describe and I do not think it was false.
It was right and good during it's time, but it was thanks to my rational take on life that my divorce and separation from the one I loved could form into yet another great event that allowed me to grow even stronger, happier and more loving of my own life.
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#327568 - 05/13/08 11:53 AM Re: Love [Re: Loupy]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Loupy
Hi,

I'm reading the replies here and it seems like most are confusing love with passion or infatuation, both feelings that do not last, or confusing love with being in love. When you are in love you think the other person is perfect, everything he/she does is perfect but once that feeling is gone, what was once cute becomes an unbearable flaw.

Love is above all that. Love stays when being in love is gone. Love is a felling that does not exclusively happen towards a sexual partner, you love your friends, your family, your pets.


I believe that true love is always magical and passion is an integral part of it. If one finds such love then every day of that love feels just like the first day. I think that people are so pessimistic about love today just because they haven't found real love in their lives yet, so they join everyone else in saying that ''all this love thing is overrated''.

I've found that true love is really eternal and always alive, and it spawns passion and happiness over and over again, like a well that never goes dry. And as I've pointed out that true love is alive, then it should also be nurtured and kept sacred, people should never take each other for granted.

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#327590 - 05/13/08 01:24 PM Re: Love [Re: TrojZyr]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3406
For the most part, apart from the fact that squabbling is mostly immature behaviour based on maintaining a frail power-over their "loved-one", I'm pretty sure it also makes things more interesting for them.

Imagine all those stupid people not fighting, what would they waste their time with? Actual discussion? Sharing true thoughts and emotions? Exploring trust and intensity in fetish?

Not likely.

I've been in situations where the guy attempts to slyly introduce a flirtation with another girl into the mix. My theory is he's hoping for us to then get competitive and let the baddest bitch win.

Everytime that's been done to me I step right back. If he's the kind of man that always needs to keep someone jealous then she can have him. A man who responds to that bullshit turns me right off. crazy

EDIT: I realize, of course, that jealousy is effective, most of the time. It's just something I refuse to do or respond to.


Edited by Zaftig (05/13/08 01:27 PM)

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#327884 - 05/14/08 02:17 PM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
I just had to post this song inside this topic...

Thin Lizzy - Still in love with you

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=XsIubn5Pp6s&feature=related

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#328278 - 05/16/08 11:48 AM Re: Love [Re: ZackC]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: ZackC
She is one of the most caring and giving women I have ever met (cliche I know).


Why would something beautiful be a cliche? Actually, nowadays it's the opposite that is the cliche - superficial relationships - that's the cliche today. Don't put your own self down, you've found someone beautiful in your life - and that's great, what someone may think about it should be none of your concern.

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#328315 - 05/16/08 04:16 PM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
I don't think you need to find someone special in order to experience true love.

And I don't think "falling in love" has to be the thing that leads you to love. I actually think that if you are cynical about love you can eventually find a much deeper and stronger love founded on rational cold planning where the "falling in love" effect can find such a carefree secure setting to go aflame when you haven't thrown yourself in to deceptive dreams about eternity, but that's just my take on it.

Here is something I've written on true love earlier and I think it applies to loving yourself and your life just as much as it might apply to loving someone "special":


If there was such a thing as true love it would be loving the animal, the beast as it really is.

It would be loving the powers of survival, not good or evil, but life itself.

Such love could simultaneously be both proud and humble, honest and utterly selfish, hateful of weakness yet understanding and accepting of it's existence and tolerant and pleased of those who do no harm to another.
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#328387 - 05/17/08 01:23 AM Re: Love [Re: Zardex]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
Originally Posted By: Zardex

And I don't think "falling in love" has to be the thing that leads you to love. I actually think that if you are cynical about love you can eventually find a much deeper and stronger love founded on rational cold planning where the "falling in love" effect can find such a carefree secure setting to go aflame when you haven't thrown yourself in to deceptive dreams about eternity, but that's just my take on it.



I have never experienced "falling in love" as anything spiritual or eternal. To me it has always been something strictly carnal & physical. It is the touch, smell, sound, look, feel etc ( not necessarily in that order ) of the person that gets my special attention, my juices flowing. And no, I cannot fall in love with someone stupid no matter how attractive they may initially appear to me, but even still, it has got nothing to do with spirituality/eternity.

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#328420 - 05/17/08 08:48 AM Re: Love [Re: Zardex]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
I see that your approach to love is quite rational, but I disagree, I think you cannot describe love as a business relationship.

To be able to sign some kind of contract with the other person, where it would be guaranteed that you would never get hurt, that you will always be treated well and the like that may be rational, but that's not love, that's a mathematical equation.

Love cannot be planned, it cannot be predicted, in my opinion, and putting these boundaries around it will inevitably destroy all the magic that love has to offer.

If you have love for yourself, then you will automatically recognize the person who is creative and constructive in terms of your relationship.

Love as any other manifestation of yourself, combines both the emotional and the rational, you cannot just block the emotional part out. wink

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#328470 - 05/17/08 02:06 PM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
WinterGoat Offline


Registered: 09/29/05
Posts: 151
Loc: WA State
When I read your post, I immediately thought of HP Nadramia's short essay entitled My Dark Satanic Love. It is a truly beautiful, moving piece and one that I have read on more than one occasion. If anyone here hasn't read it yet, then I would highly reccommend that they do so at their earliest convenience. Just follow this link: http://www.churchofsatan.com/Pages/DarkLove.html

HAIL MAGISTRA NADRAMIA!


As for own experiences; I am currently in my forties, and just found "true love" about four years ago. I have experienced things with this woman that I have with no other. I would do more for her than I ever even considered doing for any other. I have had that sense during love making (and that truly IS what it is with her; not just sex) of our two selves (souls? spirits? hearts?) melting into one. I knew from the very beginning of our relationship that she was the one/the only for me. And I love her. Truly love her. In fact, so much that I celebrate Xmas with her each year. And why not, she hates Halloween, but shares in it with me just because it is so important a holiday for me. My own happiness and well being are in part contigent on her own as hers is on my mine.
Talk about a tremendous sense of self gratification!! That's the best part. devilchili


Edited by WinterGoat (05/17/08 02:07 PM)
_________________________
Every man has to seek in his own way
to make his own self more noble
and to realize his own true worth.

Albert Schweitzer


They're persecuting what they can't stand to look at in themselves--the truth.

From the song Warlock
by The Electric Hellfire Club

TESLAMAP5

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#328506 - 05/17/08 04:35 PM Re: Love [Re: WinterGoat]
ZackC Offline


Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 17
Loc: WA
Originally Posted By: WinterGoat


As for own experiences; I am currently in my forties, and just found "true love" about four years ago. I have experienced things with this woman that I have with no other. I would do more for her than I ever even considered doing for any other. I have had that sense during love making (and that truly IS what it is with her; not just sex) of our two selves (souls? spirits? hearts?) melting into one. I knew from the very beginning of our relationship that she was the one/the only for me. And I love her. Truly love her. In fact, so much that I celebrate Xmas with her each year. And why not, she hates Halloween, but shares in it with me just because it is so important a holiday for me. My own happiness and well being are in part contigent on her own as hers is on my mine.
Talk about a tremendous sense of self gratification!! That's the best part. devilchili


That's exactly the way I feel!! I don't like to express like that because its like some scene out of a chick flick. The kind of scene most men bare through and women love. Only once you have experienced love things change. Its like when you hear people on t.v. say "I finally understand those love songs now." It really feels like a light comes on and you know this is the person your gonna stick with, as fanciful as that sounds. Of course things don't always work out. The point I am trying to make is how enigmatic the feeling is, until it is felt at its fullest. Its a feeling everyone thinks they know when others talk about it, but they really don't.


Edited by ZackC (05/17/08 04:37 PM)
Edit Reason: Being a dumbass and not checking for proper grammer

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#328519 - 05/17/08 06:19 PM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
In general relationships such as ones where love is involved is developed over time. Lust and infatuation is a chemical reaction where one would feel "high" so to speak.

Love is definitely an emotion but it doesn't happen in an instant.

Love takes work. I love my wife and she loves me, there are certain things you must do and put up with and work at in order to stay together. That is love, being able to set aside ones own wants and needs from time to time in certain settings to help out the other person, where the other is willing to reciprocate. One can experience Lust without the other experiencing it, but you cannot experience love unless the other person loves you back.

Lust is a primal emotion where each person feels lust. They are caught up in the feeling that they are experiencing internally.

Love goes much deeper than that.

That is only my opinion- from my experience.

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#328530 - 05/17/08 07:15 PM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
RottenBonnie Offline


Registered: 04/28/07
Posts: 546
Loc: The West Coast, USA
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
I would like to know how you have experienced love in your existence?


My experience with love is that you get out of it what you put into it. I will say, though, that it goes both ways. You have to get a return on your investment, so to speak.
_________________________
"The smartest, most passionate, most beautiful women I've met have been Satanists. I don't mean "beautiful on the inside where it really counts;" I mean gorgeous, vibrant, curvy women." Blanche Barton

"There's no such thing as too many books." Poetaster

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#328634 - 05/18/08 02:17 PM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
Originally Posted By: LightAngel
Love as any other manifestation of yourself, combines both the emotional and the rational, you cannot just block the emotional part out. wink


I wasn't thinking of blocking it out all. I just don't think you are required to be irrational about it in order to go in to it with all your feelings. You don't have to assume it will last or assume anything whatsoever.
You can be open to the other person and enjoy the feeling you share and discuss it rationally, yes even like in a business, a rational enterprise of the relationship, without making any irrational assumptions about the unknown of the future.
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#328642 - 05/18/08 03:49 PM Re: Love [Re: LightAngel]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10561
Loc: England
>> Love cannot be planned, it cannot be predicted, in my opinion, and putting these boundaries around it will inevitably destroy all the magic that love has to offer. <<

Indeed.

Ultimately everything is a choice.

There is no God. But love is the closest thing a human can come to being subjected to a greater power within themselves.

There comes a point when there is nothing you can do but surrender and that choice is obliterated. We are blinded. Lost. De-stabilised completely.

It can make you. And it really can break you.

As I've already said, I don't care what biological necessity lies behind it. What chemical interactions give birth to it. Such hoo haa is for mathmaticians. It is for the truly cynical and mechanical.

I would never want a lover like that. And that's why most of those types haven't got one.

Imagine how crap they are in bed.


Love is for poets. Love is for artists. Love is for the true creators. Those that have an understanding of it that goes beyond the comprehension of most. Which is what enables them to quantify it, to preserve the sheer emotion of it in their creations - it enables them to move others through their understanding of it.

Anyone who remains cynical, anyone who thinks they are immune to the absolute emotional chaos it can bring to one's life has simply never experienced passionate love or loved with passion.

Passion is all around us in nature. In the flowers. In the clouds. In the animals.

Surely, Satanists of all people should know how to love. It's in this perception that it's something spititual that is so misleading for some.

It's truly carnal. And that moment that some people call "infatuation" (a notion perpertrated by religionists who wish to convey the notion it's sinful and that spiritual love is what we must aspire to) is actually one of the most thrilling and fulfilling aspects of human relationships we can experience.
_________________________
"Spiral Out: a bleak, page-turning, unforgettable read. Existentialism at its most hardcore" - www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#328783 - 05/19/08 01:21 PM Re: Love [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1672
Loc: Denmark
Your thoughts reflect mine a lot.

To live life is to experience everything. One cannot block out only the negative emotions and keep the positive ones. If you put your feelings in your life then it's subjected to all kinds of emotions.

But it all makes sense, because even from the beginning life is a risk, and in my opinion, a risk worth taking.

To be numb in life, to preserve oneself from the eventual ups and downs may seem stable and rational, but I would not call that living I would call it surviving. Nature is chaos and being your own god is all about thriving in chaos not surrendering to it.

Passion is the power that moves the world, without it we might as well surrender the world to robots.

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