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#329890 - 05/24/08 08:15 AM Censorship - Where To Draw The Line
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
Some forms of censored behavior such as walking butt naked in the streets is understandable. Yes I know. We all could turn up naked in Africa where the tribes are and stroll naked there, but I don't think anyone from there are here, if the case may be otherwise correct me if needed be. And yes, I know there are beaches that'll allow nudity, just for clarity sake, as the point I'm making may seem obvious but since obvious is relative...

Forbidding a five year to wear mini-skirts, make-up & high heels is also understandable, as the consequences of said acts are irrefutable.

Since they are trying the banning of films, music releases, but that isn,t gonna happen so soon, if you agree that the messenger is to blame when something happens to a kid who listens to this or that music, watches this or that film, plays this or that video-game and go off on a killing spree, I will have to strongly disagree,It is just that they don't put on the tabloids that a Britney Spear's fan jump down a bridge because "oh she did it again!".

There are censorship everywhere, some are necessary, others disposable. I will not mention all forms of censorship here otherwise there will be nothing left for discussion so I trust these two examples should suffice.


So what are your thoughts on censorship and on the kinds of censorship that wasn't mentioned?

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#329893 - 05/24/08 08:25 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
Cel Offline


Registered: 09/24/07
Posts: 127
I am almost totally against censorship of any kind. It is not society's place to take care of everyones children. That is the main reason censorship exists, they don't want children to see or hear certain things. To that I say screw that.

If people don't want their children to see something that is on them, the rest of us shouldn't have to find ways around the censors because of it. As to clothing only the parents should be able to make such a call, again it isn't up to anyone else.

So to me I think censorship is a bad thing that should be totally done away with. Leave the responsibility with those who should have it, the parents and family of the children.

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#329898 - 05/24/08 08:37 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7141
Loc: Canada
I'll answer if you can give me short, coherent answers to the following questions.

What, exactly, is censorship?
Why is censorship bad?
How does this topic relate to Satanism?
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#329899 - 05/24/08 08:38 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3580
Loc: Calgary
The real problem with blaming, say, a video game for bad behavior, is a lack of effective study that goes in behind the scenes. Most studies about violent video games suggest that it does not promote bad behaviour; a "well, duh" observation in my eyes, but shocking to some out there. It may inspire people who are predisposed to violence to commit those acts, but why take something like that away from MILLIONS, over a few isolated incidents, most of which will eventually be proven were a result of something else entirely?

If you as me, the censorship stint in the nineties concerning the "Parental Advisory" warnings, as well as Jack Thompsons crusade against Rockstar, is nothing but good old fashioned good-guy badge polishing. What better way to play the hero then to say you are in it for "the children?"

As far as censorship goes, we have the internet now. Unless little Billy has access to a Visa, he won't have the means to, say, order an X rated video game online. Because these safe, childproofing methods exist, I don't see a problem with company's getting more risque with their media endeavors. On the same token, I don't think it is WRONG for there to be an ESRB rating, and for a kid to walk into the store and have to present ID to buy an "M" rated game, or an "R" rated movie. The parents are the ones, ultimately, who will decide what their children are doing, so I think it is up to them to protect the kids...and not up to some wanker trying to pass a bill to ban video game characters from smoking cigarettes.

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#329911 - 05/24/08 09:26 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
shadowraven213 Offline


Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 541
Originally Posted By: Loupy

Forbidding a five year to wear mini-skirts, make-up & high heels is also understandable, as the consequences of said acts are irrefutable.


A responsible parent would not allow this, I am unsure that this constitutes censorship at all or has anything remotely to do with it.

I am unsure of the "consequences" you make a reference to, perhaps you should spell it out.
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#329912 - 05/24/08 09:28 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Loupy
and on the kinds of censorship that wasn't mentioned?


I think we should discuss the kinds of censorship that was not mentioned once it is mentioned. Satanism is about reality after all, so if you have specific cases of censorship let's discuss those.

I think not many people are pro censorship in general, but most have opinions in specific matters. In general I think even "free" societies tend to censor too much because the herd needs reassurance that their world is safe - which doesn't really help you much, because if you ever come up with anything that in my view really should be censored I can always claim that it didn't fall within my "in general" smile
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#329929 - 05/24/08 12:00 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: reprobate]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
Originally Posted By: reprobate
I'll answer if you can give me short, coherent answers to the following questions.

What, exactly, is censorship?
Why is censorship bad?
How does this topic relate to Satanism?


To me censorships are rules.
Not always necessarily bad.
I think it related to Satanism because there must be a balance, if you're looking at society as a whole, as the example I gave, who would want a naked mad man running on the streets? It comes straight down to responsibility to the responsible in practice, not in theory.

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#329930 - 05/24/08 12:08 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: verszou]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
I don't want people to censor what I want to watch & I don't want people censoring what I want to hear but I do like the fact that there are rules, other word for censorship as I have just used in another reply. Without it, it would be chaotic, important point is where to draw the line.

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#329933 - 05/24/08 12:16 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: verszou]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
Another one that came to mind: in some shops they have a sign saying: "no more than 1 school children at the time"... which is the type of censorship I can understand otherwise they'd wreck the place.

Come to me and tell me I can't buy an original album for example because censorship won't allow it and you'll hear a different story.

Who are the heads of censorship anyways? A bunch of guys sitting around a table drinking coffee or is it "the people"? Can't be "the people" because they just do what they are told on TV, so who is it. Hmmm.

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#329940 - 05/24/08 12:43 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: TheDegenerate]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
Quote:
The real problem with blaming, say, a video game for bad behavior, is a lack of effective study that goes in behind the scenes. Most studies about violent video games suggest that it does not promote bad behaviour; a "well, duh" observation in my eyes, but shocking to some out there. It may inspire people who are predisposed to violence to commit those acts, but why take something like that away from MILLIONS, over a few isolated incidents, most of which will eventually be proven were a result of something else entirely?


And one would think that in this day and age people's mentalities would have changed, after facing facts proving that the video games & perhaps reclusive natures have nothing to do with the promotion of bad behaviour, i.e. going out there and doing what seen on game. Give me a break, those who would are one in a million and inspire people whom with or without video games could be predisposed to violence.

Quote:
On the same token, I don't think it is WRONG for there to be an ESRB rating, and for a kid to walk into the store and have to present ID to buy an "M" rated game, or an "R" rated movie.


I don't think it is wrong for kids to have to prove that they're old enough to do whatever that requires him prove to be so either.

This is what I'm saying, where to draw the line with censorship? It is like some kinda love, some kinda hate. laugh

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#329942 - 05/24/08 12:54 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Cel]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
You are linking censorship exclusively to children. There are a lot of material censored to adults as well. Watch the making of of some Horror films for another example of censorship not involving exactly children. All the stuff that were censored and not shown in the theaters.

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#329962 - 05/24/08 03:17 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
son of death Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 57
Hiding your children from the world eliminates the need to accept the responsibility of being parents to them.

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#329966 - 05/24/08 03:41 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11648
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Loupy
To me censorships are rules.

I think you'll need to start with a much stronger definition if this discussion is going to go anywhere, which is why I think Warlock Reprobrate was right in asking for one. By your definition, something like "Players collect $200 when their token passes 'Go'" is cernsorship. Obviously, you need to elaborate.
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#329979 - 05/24/08 05:19 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: shadowraven213]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2851
Loc: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted By: Loupy

Forbidding a five year to wear mini-skirts, make-up & high heels is also understandable, as the consequences of said acts are irrefutable.


A responsible parent would not allow this, I am unsure that this constitutes censorship at all or has anything remotely to do with it.

I am unsure of the "consequences" you make a reference to, perhaps you should spell it out.


yeah, me too.

I get the kind of creepy feeling you are implying that a child playing dress up is asking for it. While in no way on the topic of censorship, it does give a rather questionable insight into your mindset.

As for censoring media, I have no problems with rating systems or preventing minors from access to adult material. I am adult and I can buy what I want.

If theaters can make money at something they will show it. It is the dollar and rarely censorship that determines what plays where and who sells what.

I also believe in private enterprise. If a business owner decides he doesn't want to sell something in his store, that is his right.

So what is the problem?

Y~
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#329999 - 05/24/08 06:39 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Ygraine]
son of death Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 57
I think the problem would relate to who gets to make the decision to censor. Who draws the lines. We should ask why they are so concerned with what others do. From what source do they draw their moral inspiration for such concern?

I think the efforts would be better directed at educating parents to teach their children to educate themselves.

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