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#330211 - 05/25/08 04:31 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Ygraine]
AdventureCat Offline


Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 118
Loc: North East England (UK)
Originally Posted By: Ygraine

yeah, me too.

I get the kind of creepy feeling you are implying that a child playing dress up is asking for it. While in no way on the topic of censorship, it does give a rather questionable insight into your mindset.

The word irrefutable was what got me. I'm sure a lot of parents on here would be quite capable of making sure that nobody did anything untoward to their child, regardless of what the child was wearing.

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#330214 - 05/25/08 05:23 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Bill_M]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
Something I saw on day time TV got me thinking about this. There are several definitions on the dictionary of the word "censorship", the closest to what I understand of it is:

1. counterintelligence achieved by bann...yn: censoring] ...even though I do think the word enemy used on the definition is much too strong.

I'm not saying anything against or in favour of censorship because that'd have to largely depend on the case in particular. If anything I'm leaning more towards being in favour of censorship in general without mentioning any example, as otherwise the world would be in total anarchic chaos.

Someone mentioned the Parental Advisory note on music CDs in the 90s, and I believe in operation still to date... I might just do a little research on who they are.

Obviously censorship is applied in all different areas and no one is talking about any area specifically but I'd welcome any thoughts. Are you in favour or against censorship and to what degree, any experience you'd like to share as to why you've come to take that position? Any more examples other than the ones given?

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#330223 - 05/25/08 06:45 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Ygraine]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
Thanks for your reply. It makes it easier when one is more straight forward. That's what I like in the posts I've read by yourself, straight forwardness.

I don't think there is anything wrong with a little girl trying on her mom's stuff.... at home. I tend to be a bit blunt sometimes. It is another thing when she wants to go out down the streets wearing stuff that one would wear in a night-club- places where minors are not even allowed in. I agree censoring cases such as these, to protect the ones you love, even though it'd be likely that it'd be a little too late if came to this scenario. Kids should be kids and parents should be parents, not just breeders.


Hope that helped to clarify that part.

As for media censoring though, as an adult, I should be able to watch, listen to what I want. How much material does not get the approval to be even distributed because Satan knows who did not deem it acceptable, more often than not, morally acceptable?

As I've mentioned previously, censorship is a broad term, one would need to dissect it, case by case... draw the line somewhere.

Again, as for the media, no, I don't think it is "right" that it is up to third parties to decide what everyone else can or cannot listen to or view. It should be up to the parent in case of kids to determine because people are different... but then again, what would become of the kids whose parents are complete wackos?

I suppose the Big Brother has its uses, I just think it is time for more individual freedom, with or without their Parental Adviser's stickers...

In the case of private business, I strongly agree with your opinion, but unfortunately the owners of certain places such as bars and clubs in places in the USA & in some places in Europe, have to abide by non smoking bans. Another example where a line could be drawn considering we are speaking of private properties.

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#330227 - 05/25/08 07:00 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: AdventureCat]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
Originally Posted By: AdventureCat
Originally Posted By: Ygraine

yeah, me too.

I get the kind of creepy feeling you are implying that a child playing dress up is asking for it. While in no way on the topic of censorship, it does give a rather questionable insight into your mindset.

The word irrefutable was what got me. I'm sure a lot of parents on here would be quite capable of making sure that nobody did anything untoward to their child, regardless of what the child was wearing.



I have elaborated on that example on posts above this one, which is all it was, an example. Not particularly the one I was interested in discussing by the way, but it was an easy one.

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#330268 - 05/25/08 11:17 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7141
Loc: Canada
Please, stop saying "censorship" when you mean "restraint under rules".

Censorship means that there is a censor who decides what can be said.

Most folks here will tell you:
Do we need restraint under rules? Yes, no brainer.
Do we need censors to tell us what we are permitted to say and do before we are allowed to do it? No.


Edited by reprobate (05/25/08 11:32 PM)
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#330288 - 05/26/08 05:19 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: reprobate]
Loupy Offline
Banned

Registered: 05/12/08
Posts: 48
I have never heard this term before "restraint under rules" but I'll look into it regardless of understanding some of the examples mentioned by myself and others, as censorship indeed.

Parental Advisory used by media I see as censorship.

When they won't play certain films on TV, I see that also as censorship.

When a kid is given a curfew, I see that as censorship.

Again, I'm not attacking nor defending the idea, just merely speculating if in some areas there couldn't be more freedom for individual decisions.

Would you give an example of what I see as censorship that you see as restraint under rules?

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#330296 - 05/26/08 06:37 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
AdventureCat Offline


Registered: 06/29/01
Posts: 118
Loc: North East England (UK)
Originally Posted By: Loupy

Parental Advisory used by media I see as censorship.

When they won't play certain films on TV, I see that also as censorship.

When a kid is given a curfew, I see that as censorship.

Again, I'm not attacking nor defending the idea, just merely speculating if in some areas there couldn't be more freedom for individual decisions.

Would you give an example of what I see as censorship that you see as restraint under rules?

The wikipedia definition of censorship is "the suppression of speech or deletion of communicative material which may be considered objectionable, harmful or sensitive, as determined by a censor". This is pretty much what I intuitively think of censorship as being.

So, I'd say that a curfew isn't censorship, it's a rule prohibiting a certain action. Also, it's debatable whether parental advisory stickers totally fall into the category of censorship. The albums aren't completely being censored, they're just being restricted to people over 17 and people under 17 who have parents who are prepared to let them have them.

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#330298 - 05/26/08 06:39 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7141
Loc: Canada
"Restraint under rules" is not a term. It's a phrase that means, broadly, everything you're talking about.

"Censorship", on the other hand, IS a term that means something more precise than what you've been using it to mean.

I'm not really interested in what you "see as" censorship. I'm only interested in seeing how you can refine the topic to be something that we can actually talk productively about in this thread.

"Does society need rules y/n" is too broad to be worth my time here.

That's all you're going to get out of me in this thread.
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#330299 - 05/26/08 06:42 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
The parental advisory stickers are laughable, because they just signal to the kids which CDs are "cool," and because they've been known to get slapped on certain CDs prematurely or undeservedly (Frank Zappa's "Jazz from Hell" got one, even though it doesn't have "explicit lyrics"---indeed, it has no lyrics at all!)

I certainly don't like it when they won't play certain films on TV, or they snip out certain scenes (whether for content or for length), or they give them that silly dubbing when they say naughty words.

A kid being given a curfew is not "censorship" under the standard definition. And, up to a certain age, children need curfews, as set by their parents. If they want to petition their government, practice a religion, or speak freely, they'll just have to do it at home, come 11:30 wink. I'm not as enthusiastic when it comes to curfews set by the local area or county, though I can fully understand why they have them and how they can certainly come in handy.
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#330321 - 05/26/08 09:45 AM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Parental Advisory is more of a disclaimer than anything else.

The cable channels have their standards of what their channel is willing to display. HBO would show you far more than cartoon network because of their level of entertainment. That is not censorship, that is understanding your audience.

Curfew is not censorship, the policy makers are not implementing a curfew so children can't see night clawers and drunken people, but to get children off the streets during hours where children are more prone to attacks and mischief. Right or wrong on such a policy is not in question here, but it is definitely not a form of censorship.

A form of censorship would be the policies enforced by Woodrow Wilson and John Adams enacted to keep opposition from talking negative about their administrations.

>>Would you give an example of what I see as censorship that you see as restraint under rules?

Everything you just listed.
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#330357 - 05/26/08 02:28 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: ]
son of death Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 57
As a free-thinking individual rules imposed upon me could be equated to ownership.

As a member of a society rules could be equated to an imposed state of respect, because those rules are agreed upon by the majority.

In our society those rules are decided by those who vote for them. And, unfortunately, everyone who votes is not necessarily guided by logic.

Promote self-education & there is no need for censorship or rules. promote the concept of individuality and there is no need for security, because we can self-police. If someone is harmful to you or those you care about, stop them. YOU are responsible.

Censorship is a means to control (or psychologically insert the concept of control into) speech. If you think your language needs to be controlled you will "watch what you say". In other words, you won't say things that you think will offend other people, i.e. political correctness. Therefore you learn to censor yourself. At that point you are being controlled psychologically.

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#330360 - 05/26/08 02:37 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: son of death]
son of death Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 57
Rules imposed on others is an expression of fear.

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#330389 - 05/26/08 05:08 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: ]
son of death Offline


Registered: 05/18/08
Posts: 57
I suppose I should've read your signature before posting that... because in our society the alpha personalities are irrelevant, from what I can tell. We base much of our interaction on the invented concept of money. Money can be inherited. Animal societies put less importance on possessions maybe? Or perhaps money IS humanities alpha system? I really hope that's not the case but it apparently must be if that's the system that exists...

But back to unstable leaders, then that must be a reflection of our unstable nature?

I was specifically referring to people who care. The stupid (the ignorant who refuse to self-educate) can die in their own filth.

You're absolutely correct about the fear comment. I was wrong about that, there are many other reasons for rules to occur.

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#330391 - 05/26/08 05:13 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: Loupy]
H2onE2 Offline
Banned Twit

Registered: 05/26/08
Posts: 7
Satan people are getting the kick off myspace. I was kicked off three times until I just gave up. When I get my hand on the myspace fXXXers I am going to pitchfork them.




Edited by Ygraine (05/26/08 05:26 PM)
Edit Reason: No evidence you are "Satan people"

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#330395 - 05/26/08 05:30 PM Re: Censorship - Where To Draw The Line [Re: H2onE2]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2851
Loc: Florida
The above post was an excuse to promote some weirdness I do not understand beyond that it has nothing to do with Satanism.

Furthermore, as much as we may bitch about myspace and censorship we agree to certain codes of conduct when we volunteer to use the service. File your gripes under "beggars can't be choosers" and create a new profile like everyone else.

Y~
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