It was during work hours when I found myself thinking about meaning of right and wrong. What you may think of as wrong may not be considered "wrong" to someone els. If a serial killer thinks that his desires of killing others for no reason is right but everyone els thinks that it is wrong, it rules out the concept of right and wrong as a universal law. If you break the laws of your country because you don't believe it is wrong, then where is the wrong in that? If we are to create our own world, universe, heaven or hell here and now then our sense of right and wrong are also created by us. I live in Tennessee, and there is a law stating that I cannot drive a car while being barefoot. I personally don't believe it is wrong driving a car barefoot. I only have two choices; first I will either drive barefoot and just make sure I don't get busted or second, I conform to the laws of other men. Conforming is conforming no matter which way you put it. The point I am trying to get is this; You MUST conform to your nation's laws in order to have a peaceful life, however your feelings to some laws contradict and therefore creates a situation of conflict. How then are you to be able to naturally live the way you see fit if laws bind you from things you do not think of as wrong? Thank you for returning your opinions and thoughts to this, Hail Satan!

All though in honest I view your entry as a 'baiting' question, I will say this:

First off, it did give Me a chuckle that it's against the law to drive barefoot in TN. of all places, but I digress.

If you have a law in your State that you do not agree with then try and do something about it. Try to get it overturned. Start a petition and get the signatures of others who also wish to drive barefoot.

Why you would want to drive with no shoes on is a mystery to Me which again, leads Me to think that your question is that of a 'baiting' one.

If you don't like the law, do something. Actions produce results. OR move.

I see that deleting your post was too subtle a response to this twaddle. Evidently you think when a moderator removes a post it must be an error.

Since you are obviously too slow to comprehend why you post was offensive to any legitimate Satanist and would prefer to have it critiqued, I am going to oblige you.

"It was during work hours when I found myself thinking about meaning of right and wrong. What you may think of as wrong may not be considered "wrong" to someone els."

This is called relativism.

Congratulations on figuring out this brand spanking new concept which is as old as humanity. We can only hope your epiphany at work didn't burn someone's fries.

"If a serial killer thinks that his desires of killing others for no reason is right but everyone els thinks that it is wrong, it rules out the concept of right and wrong as a universal law."

It does no such thing. It only rules out that the serial killer is mentally healthy.

Universal laws are those which enable humanity to move forward. They are not morals, or ways to polish good guy badges. They are the things that allow our species to live and create instead of every second being about survival.

"If you break the laws of your country because you don't believe it is wrong, then where is the wrong in that? "

Incarceration leaps to mind.

Breaking the social contract that prevents me from killing you and in effect prevents you from killing me is another factor.

Moreover there are ways to remedy said problem. Either move or work within an established system to change the law you disagree with.

"f we are to create our own world, universe, heaven or hell here and now then our sense of right and wrong are also created by us."

Lemme know how that creating your own world thing works for you.

Satanism is about what IS, not what should be.

"I live in Tennessee, and there is a law stating that I cannot drive a car while being barefoot. I personally don't believe it is wrong driving a car barefoot. I only have two choices; first I will either drive barefoot and just make sure I don't get busted or second, I conform to the laws of other men."

Yeah, whatta nightmare!

There are plenty of stupid laws. Almost as many as stupid people who actually feel victimized by them.

"Conforming is conforming no matter which way you put it. The point I am trying to get is this; You MUST conform to your nation's laws in order to have a peaceful life, however your feelings to some laws contradict and therefore creates a situation of conflict"

Conflict is the engine of creation. Conflict brings about change.

Conformity is not a problem in and of itself. It is only a problem if it is a denial of self--which is what you are saying. You do not wish to conform to the barefoot law. Well, as a church we have to say that we do not condone illegal activity. As an individual I say that you can choose to break that law and pay the consequences. As me, I say, are you fucking kidding? Your revelations on relativism and conformity are about your footwear?

"How then are you to be able to naturally live the way you see fit if laws bind you from things you do not think of as wrong? Thank you for returning your opinions and thoughts to this, Hail Satan!"


Easy.
My indulgent life depends upon my freedom. It also depends on others following the social contract and not impeding me. If I must sacrifice some things in order to enjoy the bounty life has to offer, I am not so immature as to resent it.

When a law is not to my liking I use legal means to try to remedy them.

It is more important for me to be able to live happily than to sweat the small stuff.

Now, fyi, DO NOT re-post posts that have been moved or deleted.

Here we have rules that demand conformity. Consider this forum one big shoe, and the moderators ticket happy cops.


Y~

I have no comment about the issue of following the law.
Magistra Ygraine covered that base...again.

I would like to address this, however: Nonconformity.
Satanism in not a religion of nonconformity. It is a religion of individualism.
Nonconformity is the refusal to live up to, or by, set standards.
Individualism is setting your own standards, and living by them.
The two are miles apart, and have nothing to do with each other.

The power of the interWeb has given us the answer! All hail the interWeb!

It is not illegal to drive barefoot in any state!

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Is_it_illegal_to_drive_a_vehicle_barefooted

The Power of GOOGLE!!!:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=com.microsoft:*:IE-SearchBox&rlz=1I7GGIH&q=Barefoot+driving+illegal+in+TN%3F&start=10&sa=N

No laws against driving barefoot:
http://tafkac.org/legal/driving.barefoot...

Driving barefoot not unsafe:
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/msp/TS...
http://www.news.com.au/couriermail/story...

Have fun barefoot crazy driver.

I was just about to post this very information!

And why do I know this particular bit of trivia?

I'm one of the few remaining enthusiasts of the Ancient Art of the Stickshift, so a number of my friends have come to me seeking to learn the arcane Ways Of The Clutch.

And for those who just can't seem to develop a feel for the clutch pedal, I suggest an unusual method -- try it barefoot. Call me crazy, but it works. The position of the pedals is much more tactile and immediate, and it generally doesn't take long for clutchwork to "click" in the learner's mind, at which point they can put their shoes back on and then generally do much better than before.

Strange but true.

-Chess

I have been driving manuals all my life and refuse to buy an automatic. But still have never driven barefoot.

Of course I don't teach people to drive a stick because I figure it is an art that I wish to keep to myself.

I believe the LordOfDarkness deserves points for his post. Skillfully done, great misdirection, great way to ask a question and yet avoid a fiery pit.

No.

Blatantly transparent agenda, fastidiously obvious, 100% un-Satanic, slowly simmering while oblivious to the fact that he is being consumed by the fiery pit.

First, I apologize for re-posting. I didn't look hard enough as I thought or assumed that my post just didn't go through.
secondly, I will be more wise next time to not believe my family as easily about such laws. Thank you for bringing that to my attention. As for the "driving barefoot" law that I now know doesn't exist. It was to bring the focus on laws that are just plain ridiculous. I'll study first before I'll post here next time.

Never again would I listen to my family as easily about this subject. Apparently they have told me inaccurate information. Thank you for the correction on this error Dicipline.

Just curious---now that we've worked out the barefoot thing---care to embellish on your supporting relativism in regards to serial killers?


Y~

You take people on their word?

If I did that I would be full of inaccurate and false information.

Laws are written for one reason, usually people have engaged in an act and it didn't turn out well, for them or others.

Whether you can justify breaking a law or not it isn't a good idea since it can cost you a lot of time and money, why would you do that to yourself?

While driving barefoot may not be illegal, I don't think it is an altogether good idea-just in case you have an accident.
Be prepared.

I love driving stick, it is an art and it was quite the sight to see me learning! Vroom, rrr, vrroom, rrr staall!

When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.




Herd Conformity—That’s obvious from a Satanic stance. It’s all right to conform to a person’s wishes, if it ultimately benefits you. But only fools follow along with the herd, letting an impersonal entity dictate to you. The key is to choose a master wisely instead of being enslaved by the whims of the many.



Satanism is unambiguous and coherent.

Your confusuion is unwarrented.

While this is more or less true, some of those events didn't turn out so well because the intense idiocy of the person or people involved. Why should one idiot's mistakes define the law?
Of course, the above are only a minority of the cases, and many laws are there for intelligent reasons. It's just not always the case. Not all laws should be followed simply because they're passed. Only the intelligent laws and the easily enforced should be followed. Of the rest, some are worth changing, and the rest are worth ignoring.

I've found driving barefoot provides more precise control of both automatic and stickshift cars. It's definitely something people should try.

Do you see that the issue here has nothing to do with shoes...or lack of shoes?

Go to jail, do not pass go, do not collect $200.

How exactly are these laws making any serious impact on your life? are there any really unfair laws that were made for such reasons that simply cannot be overturned by getting involved in politics on some level?

I must admit that the only laws that really effect my life in any annoying way is tax laws and certain technological laws and import restrictions. And these are all there because of large groups of people and big organisations having an economic incentive for getting them passed, not because one person made a mistake.

I can understand that a person might feel in a position to consider breaking the law if something central to their life is prohibited by law, like their sexuality, deep seated convictions or the freedom to pursue the profession of their choice. But if things come to a head like that - wouuld it not be better to move yourself to a place where laws are more liberal - 30 years of struggle or 8 hours of flight to get what you want?

What I don't get though is this urge to publicly declare yourself above certain laws. I can understand if for some reason an emergency arises where you walk across the street even though there is a red light because you see that there aren't a car in sigh and the fine for doing so is relatively minor (or you're walking through Paris where things can get pretty chaotic during rush hour). Ok, fine - you still broke the law, but the reasoning behind it sort of makes sense.

What doesn't make sense to me is going on the net trying to convince others that traffic lights are really optional and that traffic law does not apply to certain people who have acheived some "enlightenment" about the system, there is no entitlement at work here. If a cop, which you managed to overlook, stops you there is no "But this is a really stupid law, your honor" defense available.

Unless you're Jack Bauer trying to prevent a terrorist attack or Doctor Doom who has diplomatic immunity the laws still apply to you.

Oooooooh. OF COURSE!!!! So THAT'S why all the NASCAR drivers are barefooted!

If a situation should arise in which you are required to quickly move your foot from the accelerator to the brake, and you should happen to stub your toe on the edge of the pedal, you're going to be 50% concerned about stopping, and 50% concerned about the pain in your foot. Personally, I'd rather be 100% focused on maintaining control of the vehicle.

As far as the original post of this thread...

Good is what you like. Evil is what you don't like. Sure, you might not like ALL the laws, but... sitting in a 20 by 20 cell for months on end with 40 other sub-human scumbags who decided that indulging their compulsory inclinations was more important their freedom... you will like EVEN LESS.

We don't get a lot of Nascar over here, but from watching Formula 1 and Le Mans drivers I've noticed that they don't seem to wear thick soled army boots when driving. They seem to have some kind of specially made footwear with rather thin soles. So there is probably some merit in the idea of having better control and they've simply worked from that in finding a solution that allows for very precise control while still providing some protection. Again it probably differs from driver to driver, as I understood it for instance Villeneuve had almost no travel in his pedals, one commetator describing them as "binary", while others wanted more room to work with - so it's probably not down to footwear or not entirely

Run your foot toes-first into the edge of a door when you're barefooted. Not too terribly hard, wouldn't want any permanent injury. Now put a bedroom slipper on your other foot and do the same thing. Hurts less. The end.

Those 'people' were my parents. But I came to find out by asking other people that the DMV here in Tennessee has told some people that they aren't supposed to drive a car 'without shoes' and stated that it was a law.

I think the Hierarchy here have been more than generous enough in answering all that needs to be said with your post, but I just have to say - why wouldn't you first make sure your information was actually accurate before making this claim?

Sort of reminds me of this Russian proverb I heard once (I paraphrase, and if I remember correctly) about how once you spew out words, you can never swallow them again.

My question is one that doesn't need answered.

In all honesty, the serial killer part of my topic was only an example just like the 'driving barefoot' situation. I don't agree nor like realizing there are people like that. What I am trying to get across is when Anton stated about Good and Evil being only what you like and dislike, this could also apply what is right and wrong. People in my area have come by me like their ways of right and wrong is the actual way, kind of like christianity forcing their religion on us. However, the sense of right and wrong is only a personal view. If I don't like something or a situation and believe it is wrong, that doesn't mean it is universally wrong. When I mean universally wrong, I mean like it is not a set natural law like gravity. Only in one's own personal life would these rules of right and wrong be in effect. If everyone's right and wrong are supposed to be governing and effecting other people's lives, then that is why christianity is so annoying, because they believe their view of right and wrong are the ultimate law and should be followed by everyone. Therefore, since the universe is indifferent, that means that anything goes. I agree that laws are set to prevent chaos and to keep peace among us. I follow those laws that do so but there are a select few laws I do not agree with. I never knew that I can have an opportunity to change it until recently. This doesn't mean that I am slow but it does mean that I never paid much attention in school and that is true. My question on the topic was in fact; What could I do if I think the law on such and such is wrong but I must obey the law and conform when it is against by belief? It has already been answered and I give thanks to some of you. I am posting this so that the rest of you wouldn't misunderstand me.

Like what?

I can agree with that when it comes to more serious laws, however when it came to the 'driving barefoot' law, I highly doubt I'd be in that situation. Think how hilarious that would look from a third party view. I'd be like; "Hey guys, I'm getting arrested because I drove my car barefoot."

Fully agree...





Remember that fools only follow along with the herd. Does it ultimately benefit me if I was 13 years old, with a porn magazine and my christian grandma comes in and lectures me? No. Because if I be passive and grant my grandma's wishes, I would not be satisfying myself and therefore I would have a hard on through Sunday school. Not a good idea. I tried to be passive when my parents told me that I must listen to this freak named God, but did I become passive? No. Because if I follow the holy bible's teachings, I would always have a personal conflict between my desires and the book. My girlfriend is the same way so to this day, I hide my satanic bible ever day so I wouldn't have an argument and still relax and read the literature at a time I choose. Anton also mentioned this; The rule of Satanism is: if it works for you, great. When it stops working for you, when you’ve painted yourself into a corner and the only way out is to say, I’m sorry, I made a mistake, I wish we could compromise somehow, then do it. Which means to do whichever works for you, but if you do get into that kind of problem then kiss those cheeks so you can get out. ( I know that statement is towards pride but it could also apply to a situation such as this.) If these situations ever arise, you must balance the pros and cons upon every given situation. You must not use that statement to apply to laws for having a good guy badge and playing the 'I'm a good guy' to the public is also against our belief. That is why I agree when it has been stated that I could vote or take a political action to overturn a law. You can counter a situation by revealing your belief but in a positive way. In my situation with my girlfriend, I just try to avoid the whole discussion of religion altogether and thusly not putting on a 'good guy badge' and also working out a conflict. Read Mr. Gilmore's Satanic Scriptures and you'll see what I mean by 'revealing satanism in a positive way'.

In this list, there is a law stating that we cannot give or recieve oral sex which I highly disagree with because of obvious reasons. Click the links of your state and find out what you don't agree with. Those laws that you don't agree with, I am talking about in general.

http://www.dumblaws.com/laws/united-states/tennessee

Elko, Nevada
Everyone walking the streets is required to wear a mask.

New York
A person may not walk around on Sundays with an ice cream cone in his/her pocket.

Makes sense to me.

In the UK

It is illegal for two adult men to have sex in the same house as a third person.

So its completely legal if the third person joins in then.

In the city of York apparently it is still completely legal to kill a Scotsman with a bow and arrow except on a Sunday but only if you spot him within the city walls after dark.

Somehow I very much doubt that would save you from prosecution however.

No, they're barefoot because they are a bunch of hillbilly rednecks.
Oh, excuse me, that's the people who pay $700 to drive their Rvs to the track to sit inside and watch the race. (I don't see the logic in that.)
But, then, I'm a redneck who has NEVER watched a NASCAR race in my life.

Those 3 letters should have told you these people didn't know what they were talking about. After all, they don't hire the most intelligent people to work in those offices, in any state.

I think you will find that most of the laws listed on that site are laws that are no longer enforced.
(Except, maybe, the one in Chino, CA, that will get you a $50 for detonating a nuclear device in downtown Chino.)

Nitpick

Not since the introduction of the Sexual Offences Act 2003, which removed all gender-specific descriptions in relation to sexual acts or crimes.

/Nitpick

Your point about killing Scotsmen stands however.

I can see what your saying, but how do you explain driving barefoot, and moving your feet from left to right and not trying to kick through the flooring, engine, and chassis with your big toe? I love the humor this topic is bringing.

That is unbelievable! You don't want to be down here where I live. Everwhere I turn there's either a christian extremist, a redneck drinking beer with the heavy southern accent going on, or both.

The page did say some of them are not but I do know this; that law in Tennessee that I mentioned earlier is still in effect here only because people here think it is immoral. Most of these people are christian extremist. I could find maybe one buddhist and maybe a hindu if I'm lucky.

Yes, the "Sorry, your Honor, that was a stupid, uneasily enforced law that did not require my compliance" defense has worked so well.

Why are so many people so fucking stupid?

Do the posters here really think that we are so naive as to think that some laws are so archaic that they aren't broken daily with little or no consequence?

Do the posters think we can't distinguish between jaywalking and murder?

Do the posters think none of us have ever broken the speed limit?

Let's try this again for the perpetually slow:

The Church of Satan, as an organization, does not condone any illegal activity.

This forum, recognized as a forum utilized primarily for Church of Satan members and those who claim to follow the tenets of Satanism, must not condone illegal behavior.

Individuals will do as they will, and should be confident that they are capable of paying the price.

Laws that offend can be re-legislated.

People can move to friendlier pastures.

Keeping one's yap shut reduces exposing others to the knowledge of law-breaking.

Simply believing a law doesn't apply to you is called sociopathy.

Bragging about your disdain for the law is called stupidity.

Y~

So what your saying is that its now illegal for two adults to have sex in the same house as a third person?

I think I will invite a couple of friends round this weekend.

Is this what is mean by a third party?