#34020 - 04/04/04 09:22 AM
Satanism vs. Islam
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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I've read the Satanic Bible cover to cover, and the thing that intrigues me is that most of the theology covered is using the Christian Church and philosophy to prove their point. What does Satanism say about Islam and how does Satanism prove Islam false?
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#34023 - 04/04/04 10:59 AM
Re: Satanism vs. Islam
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Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1505
Loc: Massachusetts
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Quote:
I've read the Satanic Bible cover to cover
Cover to cover? Or just the covers? 
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#34024 - 04/04/04 11:04 AM
Re: Satanism vs. Islam
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Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
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xianity is just an example, albeit a rather prolific one.
I suggest you re-read TSB, and pay closer attention.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein
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#34026 - 04/04/04 11:45 AM
Re: Satanism vs. Islam
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CoS Member
Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2274
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Islam is mostly the mutant child of Judeo-Christianity. So it's not a big leap to say that Satanism is in opposition to Islam, it's just that Islam was not such a prevelant factor when Anton LaVey formulated Satanism.
In fact there are Islamic writings out there which attack Satanism because of the fact that Satanism is in staunch opposition to Islam without really using the religion's name.
_________________________
"My dear Insurgent you're an extremist, intolerant and you have prejudices. That's all."
"I am a fucking Satanist and desire in all of my being to be the Queen of the World if at all possible...."
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#34027 - 04/04/04 12:22 PM
Re: Satanism vs. Islam
[Re: Insurgent]
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Well, in TSB, most of the attacks to Christianity are aimed towards the Church, which is just a swirling vortex of hypocrisy. I am talking about prevalent thought in context of belief, such as the Qur'an. There is a challenge in it to find one error, just one error. I've been studying this topic for some time and it has amazed me to find that this challenge has stood for 1400 years.
When I said cover to cover, I meant everything in between. Duh.
Islam can be called a spawn of Judaism, but so was Christianity. The thing is is that they all have altered schools of thought, i.e. the Jews believe they are God's chosen people and always will be, Christians believe that God is three beings in one and that Jesus is their God, while Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last prophet of God.
Islam condemns the Christian Church, so all arguments in TSB relating to the Church are not valid for Islam. Furthermore, just because LaVey wrote a statement saying 'Right Hand religions are wrong' does not hold up. All claims should be backed with sufficient evidence.
Since Satanism to you guys is the best, it should be easy to prove Islam false.
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#34028 - 04/04/04 12:38 PM
Re: vs.
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CoS Member
Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 752
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
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If what you are trying to say is that "When another religion is mentioned in The Satanic Bible it is usually Christianity," then I can understand how you would see it that way. Certainly there is very little mention of Mohammed or Allah.
It is important to remember the context in which the book was written. It was not written in a culture where Islam was particularly popular, or even acknowledged as a religion by the general populace.
It is not the point of The Satanic Bible to "prove" anything false, history does a good enough job of that on it's own. I don't believe that it is a book designed to "pick on" anybody, rather it is the written embodiment of a philosophy that has been around for a very long time.
The Satanic Bible is not a study in comparative theology.
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#34031 - 04/04/04 01:31 PM
Re: Satanism vs. Islam
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
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What makes or breaks any religion (or philosophical school, or scientific theory, or whatever) is almost never an actual error. It's an incoherence; something that just doesn't make much sense unless you already assume it. (Note that this makes it very easy for believers to casually dismiss criticism; "You haven't really found an error." They only understand fallacies and observed inconsistencies to be errors. But that is not all there is to rationality; I challenge you, for example, to find one "error" with the theory of ether.)
In the Qur'an (as with Jewish and Christian tradition), that incoherence is found in the proofs of God and his revelation. The Qur'an explicitly refers to philosophical proofs of God's existence, on which its legitimacy depends -- namely, the Argument from Design. The Argument from Design states that the world is too glorious to have arisen by its own power, and must have been designed. If you commit to this notion, there is no way to argue it; if you don't believe it, there's no way to be persuaded of it. No matter how complex the universe turns out to be, there's no specific point at which we must logically say that it's too complex to be causa sui. How could you prove that our failure to understand the universe is not simply a failure of our own imaginations to conceive a self-generating system of that complexity? The history of science shows how what was formerly considered magical or beyond explanation can be found to have earthly causes.
Even given a designer, God's act of creation and God's special intervention in the form of revelation are two different things. How do we judge a prophet? Supposedly we're given "signs" or "miracles". But what counts as a miracle? Only something we don't know how to explain. The "miracle" of Muhammad was that he could recite better than any literate poet of earthly inspiration. How could you ever prove that? How could you prove that it's not just a failure of our own imaginations to conceive a natural cause?
We are not convinced. We have been given no logically compelling reason to posit an intelligent creator or a prophecizing god. So we've answered spiritual questions in another way, to our own satisfaction. We tend to find them more intellectually satisfying, because they don't posit what can't be proved.
As per the Qur'an 3:21, you've conveyed your message, and can now leave.
Edited by reprobate (04/04/04 01:40 PM)
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reprobate
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#34032 - 04/04/04 01:37 PM
Re: Satanism vs. Islam
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11183
Loc: New England, USA
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>I am talking about prevalent thought in context of belief,
>such as the Qur'an. There is a challenge in it to find one
>error, just one error. I've been studying this topic for
>some time and it has amazed me to find that this challenge
>has stood for 1400 years.
Anybody who reads the Koran and thinks there isn't a single error in it, is either a blind fundamentalist or doesn't have any idea what the word "contradiction" means. If the "challenge still stands", I don't kid myself into thinking it's because the Koran is all true. It's obviously a case of back peddling and trying to resolve different passages by stretching the metaphors. Xtians do it all the time with their own scriptures. Muslims are no different.
ANY contradiction can be masked if you put enough imagination into it. I could say "Well, this book says 1+1=1, and not 2. This isn't false, because if I take one drop of water and add it to another drop of water, I still get one drop of water." If you're so gullable as to accept things like that, then you have no concept of objective reality. And people who have no sense of objective reality, yet are trying to push their religion AS the one objective reality, are hypocrites.
>When I said cover to cover, I meant everything in between.
>Duh.
It was an obviously sarcastic rhetorical question. Duh.
>Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last prophet of God.
If you even know THIS much about Islam, then why are you even asking what Satanism has to say about Islam? Compare statements like this with what you read in The Satanic Bible, and it should be obvious that the two religions are diametrically opposed on core beliefs. Islam is no less anti-Satanic than Xtianity, or Buddhism for that matter.
>Islam condemns the Christian Church, so all arguments in
>TSB relating to the Church are not valid for Islam.
True, but if you even just read the 9 Statements (which is what, the first page after the introduction?) it's obvious to anybody of even normal intelligence that the two are completely opposite religions.
>Furthermore, just because LaVey wrote a statement
>saying 'Right Hand religions are wrong' does not hold up.
>All claims should be backed with sufficient evidence.
Ohhhh....so THAT'S it. You're here to try to debate.
We were just hanging out here, minding our own business, until you showed up. We have no agenda trying to "prove" our religion to others. Therefore, if you claim the Koran is "true", the burden of proof is on YOU. There's no denying this. I'm feeling just fine without this "prophet of God" bullshit in my life. If you're insisting that my well-being depends on the belief in the existence of one of your imaginary friends, then that's a bold claim that you'll have to prove to me.
Ave Satanas!
Bill M.
_________________________
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#34033 - 04/04/04 01:50 PM
Re: Satanism vs. Islam
[Re: Bill_M]
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Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1505
Loc: Massachusetts
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Quote:
It was an obviously sarcastic rhetorical question. Duh.
I knew Bill would get it. Duh.  
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