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#34020 - 04/04/04 09:22 AM Satanism vs. Islam
Anonymous
Unregistered


I've read the Satanic Bible cover to cover, and the thing that intrigues me is that most of the theology covered is using the Christian Church and philosophy to prove their point. What does Satanism say about Islam and how does Satanism prove Islam false?

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#34021 - 04/04/04 09:30 AM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Eric_Flu Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/27/04
Posts: 169
Loc: USA
Read the Satanic Bible again.

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#34022 - 04/04/04 10:30 AM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Ringu Offline


Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 144
Loc: NRW, Germany, Earth
Islam is a Religion of the right handed path (as christinaity is) - so i guess the answer is obviously.
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#34023 - 04/04/04 10:59 AM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
L. Kabron Offline


Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1505
Loc: Massachusetts
Quote:

I've read the Satanic Bible cover to cover




Cover to cover? Or just the covers?
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#34024 - 04/04/04 11:04 AM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
xianity is just an example, albeit a rather prolific one.

I suggest you re-read TSB, and pay closer attention.
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"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#34025 - 04/04/04 11:05 AM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Perndog Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 558
Loc: USA
You know what the difference is between Christianity and Islam as far as Satanism is concerned?





...me neither.

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#34026 - 04/04/04 11:45 AM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Insurgent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2323
Islam is mostly the mutant child of Judeo-Christianity. So it's not a big leap to say that Satanism is in opposition to Islam, it's just that Islam was not such a prevelant factor when Anton LaVey formulated Satanism.

In fact there are Islamic writings out there which attack Satanism because of the fact that Satanism is in staunch opposition to Islam without really using the religion's name.
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#34027 - 04/04/04 12:22 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam [Re: Insurgent]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Well, in TSB, most of the attacks to Christianity are aimed towards the Church, which is just a swirling vortex of hypocrisy. I am talking about prevalent thought in context of belief, such as the Qur'an. There is a challenge in it to find one error, just one error. I've been studying this topic for some time and it has amazed me to find that this challenge has stood for 1400 years.

When I said cover to cover, I meant everything in between. Duh.

Islam can be called a spawn of Judaism, but so was Christianity. The thing is is that they all have altered schools of thought, i.e. the Jews believe they are God's chosen people and always will be, Christians believe that God is three beings in one and that Jesus is their God, while Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last prophet of God.

Islam condemns the Christian Church, so all arguments in TSB relating to the Church are not valid for Islam. Furthermore, just because LaVey wrote a statement saying 'Right Hand religions are wrong' does not hold up. All claims should be backed with sufficient evidence.

Since Satanism to you guys is the best, it should be easy to prove Islam false.

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#34028 - 04/04/04 12:38 PM Re: vs.
Professor_Sinister Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 752
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
If what you are trying to say is that "When another religion is mentioned in The Satanic Bible it is usually Christianity," then I can understand how you would see it that way. Certainly there is very little mention of Mohammed or Allah.

It is important to remember the context in which the book was written. It was not written in a culture where Islam was particularly popular, or even acknowledged as a religion by the general populace.

It is not the point of The Satanic Bible to "prove" anything false, history does a good enough job of that on it's own. I don't believe that it is a book designed to "pick on" anybody, rather it is the written embodiment of a philosophy that has been around for a very long time.


The Satanic Bible is not a study in comparative theology.
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#34029 - 04/04/04 12:40 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Caesar Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
The Church of Satan stresses study. Seeing as you currently have the inspiration, why don't you hit the books and find all the answers you are looking for regarding this "issue". No one can work harder for you than you.
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#34030 - 04/04/04 12:59 PM Re: Islam Wins! Hooray for Islam!
Professor_Sinister Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/30/01
Posts: 752
Loc: Peterborough, Ontario, Canada
I'd like to apologise for my last post. I thought you actually had a serious question and were looking for opinions.

Quote:

Since Satanism to you guys is the best, it should be easy to prove Islam false.




Since you put it that way...

You must be right. I guess Islam must be true because we can't prove it wrong, and since you've been studying it for some time, you probably know what you're talking about.

Here I've been relying on stupid things like "history" and "logic" when the whole time when it really just comes down to being a theological dick-measuring contest.

We should really be spending all our time arguing religion with every anonymous stranger on the internet who doesn't like what we believe. That's the way Allah wants. We Satanists must be so stupid not to have seen it sooner.

Now thanks to you we have all seen the error of our ways and are converting to Islam. Seriously -- it's on the internet so you know it's true.


I'm off on my HAJ now... Salaam Aleikum, and may Allah not shit in your pudding!

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#34031 - 04/04/04 01:31 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
What makes or breaks any religion (or philosophical school, or scientific theory, or whatever) is almost never an actual error. It's an incoherence; something that just doesn't make much sense unless you already assume it. (Note that this makes it very easy for believers to casually dismiss criticism; "You haven't really found an error." They only understand fallacies and observed inconsistencies to be errors. But that is not all there is to rationality; I challenge you, for example, to find one "error" with the theory of ether.)

In the Qur'an (as with Jewish and Christian tradition), that incoherence is found in the proofs of God and his revelation. The Qur'an explicitly refers to philosophical proofs of God's existence, on which its legitimacy depends -- namely, the Argument from Design. The Argument from Design states that the world is too glorious to have arisen by its own power, and must have been designed. If you commit to this notion, there is no way to argue it; if you don't believe it, there's no way to be persuaded of it. No matter how complex the universe turns out to be, there's no specific point at which we must logically say that it's too complex to be causa sui. How could you prove that our failure to understand the universe is not simply a failure of our own imaginations to conceive a self-generating system of that complexity? The history of science shows how what was formerly considered magical or beyond explanation can be found to have earthly causes.

Even given a designer, God's act of creation and God's special intervention in the form of revelation are two different things. How do we judge a prophet? Supposedly we're given "signs" or "miracles". But what counts as a miracle? Only something we don't know how to explain. The "miracle" of Muhammad was that he could recite better than any literate poet of earthly inspiration. How could you ever prove that? How could you prove that it's not just a failure of our own imaginations to conceive a natural cause?

We are not convinced. We have been given no logically compelling reason to posit an intelligent creator or a prophecizing god. So we've answered spiritual questions in another way, to our own satisfaction. We tend to find them more intellectually satisfying, because they don't posit what can't be proved.

As per the Qur'an 3:21, you've conveyed your message, and can now leave.


Edited by reprobate (04/04/04 01:40 PM)
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#34032 - 04/04/04 01:37 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11565
Loc: New England, USA
>I am talking about prevalent thought in context of belief,
>such as the Qur'an. There is a challenge in it to find one
>error, just one error. I've been studying this topic for
>some time and it has amazed me to find that this challenge
>has stood for 1400 years.

Anybody who reads the Koran and thinks there isn't a single error in it, is either a blind fundamentalist or doesn't have any idea what the word "contradiction" means. If the "challenge still stands", I don't kid myself into thinking it's because the Koran is all true. It's obviously a case of back peddling and trying to resolve different passages by stretching the metaphors. Xtians do it all the time with their own scriptures. Muslims are no different.

ANY contradiction can be masked if you put enough imagination into it. I could say "Well, this book says 1+1=1, and not 2. This isn't false, because if I take one drop of water and add it to another drop of water, I still get one drop of water." If you're so gullable as to accept things like that, then you have no concept of objective reality. And people who have no sense of objective reality, yet are trying to push their religion AS the one objective reality, are hypocrites.

>When I said cover to cover, I meant everything in between.
>Duh.

It was an obviously sarcastic rhetorical question. Duh.

>Muslims believe that Muhammad is the last prophet of God.

If you even know THIS much about Islam, then why are you even asking what Satanism has to say about Islam? Compare statements like this with what you read in The Satanic Bible, and it should be obvious that the two religions are diametrically opposed on core beliefs. Islam is no less anti-Satanic than Xtianity, or Buddhism for that matter.

>Islam condemns the Christian Church, so all arguments in
>TSB relating to the Church are not valid for Islam.

True, but if you even just read the 9 Statements (which is what, the first page after the introduction?) it's obvious to anybody of even normal intelligence that the two are completely opposite religions.

>Furthermore, just because LaVey wrote a statement
>saying 'Right Hand religions are wrong' does not hold up.
>All claims should be backed with sufficient evidence.

Ohhhh....so THAT'S it. You're here to try to debate.

We were just hanging out here, minding our own business, until you showed up. We have no agenda trying to "prove" our religion to others. Therefore, if you claim the Koran is "true", the burden of proof is on YOU. There's no denying this. I'm feeling just fine without this "prophet of God" bullshit in my life. If you're insisting that my well-being depends on the belief in the existence of one of your imaginary friends, then that's a bold claim that you'll have to prove to me.

Ave Satanas!
Bill M.
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#34033 - 04/04/04 01:50 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam [Re: Bill_M]
L. Kabron Offline


Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1505
Loc: Massachusetts
Quote:

It was an obviously sarcastic rhetorical question. Duh.





I knew Bill would get it. Duh.
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#34034 - 04/04/04 01:58 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Ringu Offline


Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 144
Loc: NRW, Germany, Earth
Quote:

Since Satanism to you guys is the best, it should be easy to prove Islam false.




I laugh my ass off this post is soo damn funny - Satanism is not there to bring the prove that Islam is false also it is not there to just attack Islam or christianity - it might attack these two but without any purpose The issue is neither about true or false nor about right or wrong - if you cannot see this then you are not a satanist ( obviously ).
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every causation has its own special effect

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#34035 - 04/04/04 02:00 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
I've read the Satanic Bible cover to cover...

No, you didn't. That is obvious.

What does Satanism say about Islam and how does Satanism prove Islam false?

Why should we? Satanism doesn’t need to go around proving other religions wrong. We have better things to do with our spare time. You should know that if you had read the above mentioned book.
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You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
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#34036 - 04/04/04 02:12 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam [Re: Old_Pig]
Ringu Offline


Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 144
Loc: NRW, Germany, Earth
Nice Post i agree completly.

Quote:

I've read the Satanic Bible cover to cover...
Quote:

No, you didn't. That is obvious.







Maybe he just understood - ähm - NOTHING
_________________________
every causation has its own special effect

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#34037 - 04/04/04 02:19 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Pluk Offline


Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 8
Loc: the Netherlands
Did you really read the Qur'an and the satanic bible and understood both? Just comparing the first pages of both books shows that they are totally different and absolutely not compatible.

In the very first verses of Soerat Al-Bakara in the Qur'an it is explained that you have to believe in the 'one and only holy truth of god', not believing in that 'one and only holy truth of god' is very very evil and blasphemous, and the non-believers will get a very very bad and painful punishment and will suffer for eternity in hell, and that is the eternal eternal justice of god. Everyone who dares to doubt that truth is very very Satanic and blasphemous and .........well, that goes on for a very long time as you probably know, telling the same threats over and over again in different words, and that god IS so very holy and divine in the same way without once telling WHY that god is so very holy, and WHAT is so holy about him, or WHY it is eternal justice to torture people in hell for eternity for the 'crime' of not believing, or WHY you must believe in god.

Read the very first page of the book of Lucifer of the Satanic Bible, it is ALL reason, explaining the why of things, and even doubt (open-mindedness) is favoured. Question things!

This is just one example, but there must be much more as I have not read the whole Qur'an, because the first pages didn't make me think I was going to like Allah.

About errors in the Qur'an; in my opinion, the few things I describe here are errors.

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#34038 - 04/04/04 02:55 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Armand_Pagoda Offline


Registered: 12/18/03
Posts: 12
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Islam--Christianity--Buddhism--I'm against any religion that advocates spirituality and the dissolution of the self over responsibility and human growth.

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#34039 - 04/04/04 03:59 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Entity Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 03/23/02
Posts: 1774
Loc: Avalon UK
The fulcum for this "debate" is belief, (or that which is held to be true until proven otherwise). On this message board in particular, the onus is upon Islam or any other left-hand-path religion to prove irrefutably, without mentioning the word "faith", that their external deity exists. Without that proof, religious belief is nothing more than an opinion which has not been tested - that's just my opinion, of course.

So, show me evidence for the existence of Allah...

I can prove that my God exists.

He just wrote this reply.
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Nothing is better than to live according to one's taste. - François Villon

Test Everything. Believe Nothing.

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#34040 - 04/04/04 04:31 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8898
Quote:

There is a challenge in it to find one error, just one error. I've been studying this topic for some time and it has amazed me to find that this challenge has stood for 1400 years.




HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(ROLLING ON FLOOR IN PAIN)

HE HE HE HE HE HO HO HA HA !!!

(GASPING FOR BREATH)

OH OH OH SHIT DAMN THAT'S FUNNY!!!

ONE ERROR!!!! JUST ONE ERROR!!!


(recovering)

It is of course IMPOSSIBLE to find "just one error", as there are thousands of errors. Every statement predicated on the existence of Allah is an error, so counting 'em all would be an interesting semantic parsing challenge, to be sure.

I LOVE trick questions, and this one was great!!!

Thanks!!!

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#34041 - 04/04/04 04:42 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
sCara Offline


Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 1223
Quote:


Since Satanism to you guys is the best, it should be easy to prove Islam false.




You tattled on yourself right there, saying that we view Satanism as being the best. You are obviously not a Satanist (and not just because of this li'l slip), so why are you even here?

To answer the question.. I don't have to prove any believer in imaginary friends wrong. They all do quite well without my help, just by opening their mouths and spewing forth their nonsense. That and the pointless attempts they make to go against what is nothing more than human nature.

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#34042 - 04/04/04 05:25 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10580
Loc: England
>>the thing that intrigues me is that most of the theology covered is using the Christian Church and philosophy to prove their point. What does Satanism say about Islam and how does Satanism prove Islam false? <<

I do not care what strikes you most.

And I do not understand why these people here have even taken your bait.

Each to their own.

If you do not resonate with the Satanic philosophy then I wish you well in your personal endeavours.

Satanism does not need to prove anything as false. The true Satanist lives such a productive life that he cares not about the phantastical, guilt ridden lives of the pious.

Arguing with religious zealots is without doubt a waste of time.
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#34043 - 04/04/04 05:30 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Anonymous
Unregistered


Satanism has no aim toward proving any other religion false. In fact, a Satanist who practices "finger-pointing" is no better than the average Xtian evangelist. This exercise is counter-productive and against the Satanic principles.

They will destroy themselves in their battle for "who's God is better". If we were to join the fight we would only go along with them.

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#34044 - 04/04/04 06:19 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam [Re: Quaark]
Perndog Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 558
Loc: USA
Maybe that was a typo and it was supposed to mean that it has taken 1400 years for all the inconsistencies to be catalogued...

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#34045 - 04/04/04 06:42 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
lucifer_dracul Offline


Registered: 04/04/04
Posts: 14
Loc: Ohio
It should painfully obvious why Islam is false. As you said yourself, it is a member of the right-hand path. This does make it false because it, as all other spiritual religions, has served to enslave humanity since its creation. The weak god that the Muslims bow down before is just like the Jewish Yahweh or the Christian Jesus. He is everything the Satanist fights against. Just look at 9/11 if you think Islam is suddenly ok just because it is not mentioned enough in TSB. I suggest that you either re-read TSB or go join the Muslims and pray to Allah for salvation.

Hail Satan!

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#34046 - 04/04/04 06:59 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
It is obvious that you are disposed in your belief of Islam and no one here can change it. Why do you wish to debate this? You already know what our response will be. You have not asked for opinions but instead have pushed your views onto us. I see you as a shit disturber and arguing this with you is fruitless.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#34047 - 04/04/04 07:16 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam [Re: Discipline]
Felstorm Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/03
Posts: 1474
Loc: Minnesota.
Careful now Discipline.

He might strap an e-mail bomb to his body and detonate himself in your Inbox.

I enjoy watching Islam flush itself down the toilet. Assholes like Osama bin Laden, the Taliban, are just the floaters left behind by Mohammad's insane mental diarrhea.

I think I'll go read a few verses from the Kuran now, I'll make sure to use a peice of bacon for a bookmark, and eat some pork rinds while drinking the fermentation of grain.



Edited by Felstorm (04/04/04 07:20 PM)
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#34048 - 04/04/04 07:23 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam [Re: Felstorm]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West

He might strap an e-mail bomb to his body and detonate himself in your Inbox.

Yes, he could. I should be more careful in the future. But I think my spam blocker will catch him first.

Got Pork?
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#34049 - 04/04/04 08:54 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam [Re: Felstorm]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Bacon for a bookmark, I LOVE IT!!

But it just so happens that MY Koran is bound in pigskin. It makes for a great bathroom book. When I run out of Charmin, the pages are nice and silky on my delicate anus.

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#34050 - 04/04/04 09:05 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Anonymous
Unregistered


What, so you want someone to specifically pinpoint a location in the Satanic Bible where Anton LaVey says, "Islam is wrong, is this is why:....."? How about the ENTIRE Book Of Satan!!! You forget, (or you're just too damned thickskulled to realize) Satanism doesn't pick and choose it's enemies. We choose reality, they choose to willingly blind themselves. Is it our fault they poke their own eyes out?

You want a reason why Islam is wrong? Because it denies that man is God. It preaches the heresy that there is some being greater than man. It champions herd conformity. I think the entire Satanic Bible cover-to-cover would have displayed that little piece of info at some point to your eyes. Or maybe you poked them out already...

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#34051 - 04/04/04 10:56 PM Re: Satanism vs. Islam [Re: Old_Pig]
Wonka Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 638
Loc: The City of Red Lights
Quote:

I've read the Satanic Bible cover to cover...

No, you didn't. That is obvious.




Eyes can move across a piece of paper or a cathode tube (!), but it's up to the brain to process any of the information.

I bet as we speak he's reading these posts and saying to himself "Aha! I see no arguments disproving Islam - I have won the debate!"
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Believe Nothing. Test Everything.

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#34052 - 04/05/04 01:11 AM Re: Satanism vs. Islam
Citizen Jonesy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Palm Springs, California, USA
Have you ever read the Qoran?

Judeaism, Christianity, Islam, it's all the same.

How boring!
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