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#342419 - 07/27/08 09:40 PM Betrayal
Charlie R Offline


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 64
Has anybody here ever been betrayed by a friend they thought they were really close with? Possibly even a best friend? If not, you're fortunate, but those who have know it hurts worse than anything else.

I'll give a personal example.

I was a typical immature teenager going into my Sophomore year of high school. I followed my friends no matter what they did to fit in. I was afraid of being cast outside and being a "loner". So much that I actually lowered myself to the level of my peers just to please them. It was pretty sad, actually. I had a few close friends in the group, but the rest of the entire group were just people I'd casually met and didn't entirely care about, just like I knew they didn't care about me.

Things kept up that way for the first quarter of Sophmore year. Then, completely out of the blue, one of the few people in the group I could relate to decided that he hated me to a point that he wanted me completely gone. Within a week (not exaggerating), the entire group of people seperated themselves from me. To this day I don't know why the guy decided to cast me out of the group, and it still remains the most painful thing I've ever felt. I hate him for it, and thank him at the same time.

I started doing a lot more by myself since that group wanted nothing to do with me, and was the exact kind of loner I never wanted to be. This went on for weeks, and during those weeks I was conflicted by internal confusion and anger towards the people I had considered my "friends". Then, as a finishing blow, on Halloween of that year, a group of about 5 people lead by the guy who started it all egged my house. I honestly don't think I can ever feel worse than I did after that.

I continued to do things by myself, and after I got over the shell-shock of being betrayed, I realized I had matured so much to the point where after a while I would look at the group of guys I used to hang out with and not feel an ounce of remorse for what had happened. I started becoming an entirely new person, and after I got over my own self-pity started meeting new groups of people, and branching out more than I had ever done before, to the point where I was nothing but myself.

I guess in the end what goes around really does come around. I went months without talking to anybody in that group, and by the end of the year the entire group (save a very small portion) felt horrible about what happened. Maybe I'm too nice and forgiving a person for my own good, but I forgave every one of them. Except for one.

So what happened to the person I considered one of my best friends? What happened to the one guy who stabbed me in the back and hurt me worse than anything else I'd ever felt before? Every morning at school I can look across the cafeteria and see him, and his two emo buddies, sitting in a corner. At first I hated him so much, it was indescribable. I honestly wanted to hurt him, it was almost scary. Now, I pity him. I feel sorry for him, and it's hard for me to explain, but when that group came back to me after I matured the way I did it felt great. Not only that, but I'd met so many new people since I went off on my own that no longer did I have to act under a false persona to fit in, but I could just be normal and still have fun. As for my old "friend", I don't think he's got much to speak for. Although, as much as I pity him, and used to hate him, I still have to thank him because it completely transformed me into a more confident person. I don't sit by myself anymore...ever...but it was a long process to rebuild the confidence that I lost.

I don't care if you read the bulk of this post, but I'm still interested to see if this kind of thing happens on a regular basis to people in their adolescent years. Please be open too, I pretty much poured my heart into this.

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#342422 - 07/27/08 09:49 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Charlie R]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3580
Loc: Calgary
I have had a few friends over the years who "changed their mind" about said friendship. As soon as I hit high school, I purposely alienated myself from all of my former friends as to avoid the drama, but before that, a friend one day was an enemy the next. It's just natural. 99 percent of the people I used to hang out with, I would never do so today. My triad of friends has been the same for the past ten years (the earliest one of the three, anyways. The other two friends would appear throughout high school) and that isn't likely to change. Others may come, or go, but these are my tried and true "best friends".

In any case, I don't think it's unusual behavior. It makes sense.

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#342423 - 07/27/08 09:51 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Charlie R]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
How to maintain a friendship: Don't let them close enough to fuck up anything that matters to you.

Adolescent friendship is bullshit.

For about the first 20-25 years of your life your worst enemies are usually your "best friends."

By then you should grow up and be over the childish need for "friendship" and get down to the business of actually living your life.

To paraphrase (and vandalize) Barbara Striesand; "People who need people are the most pathetic people in the world."
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#342428 - 07/27/08 10:17 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Charlie R]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Doesn't anybody keep a fucking journal anymore or a diary? zombie
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


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#342430 - 07/27/08 10:37 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Charlie R]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Friendships are an exchange if you look at it from a psychological point of view. You give up a bit of yourself, conform to certain standards and in exchange you get the feeling of not being alone.

I started out having very few friends when I grew up, being an odd kid. Then later in life I had the idea I might have missed out on something and expanded my circle of friends. I got a lot of good things from that, but ultimately also some negative things. My ideas of responsibility to the responsible and not being very forgiving meant that more often it was me who threw people out of my life than the other way around. I'm often told that I'll die a bitter lonely old man smile

I agree with Magister Svengali that friendships can hold you back from actually acheiving what you want in life. Part of the exchange is that you devote some of your time to then, and it is very hard to get them to accept that you want to devote time to your own projects or let your career take priority at certain crucial stages. A circle of friends would very much prefer you to stay at their level, so it's best either to maintain a bit of a distance or to associate with people who themselves are ambitious.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#342431 - 07/27/08 10:37 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: gypsy]
Pirate Offline


Registered: 07/20/08
Posts: 63
Oscar Wilde had many excellent things to say about these subjects but I do not have my book to quote from at this moment.
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#342434 - 07/27/08 10:49 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Pirate]
Posthuman Offline


Registered: 07/17/08
Posts: 33
Loc: Seattle
Everyone eventually betrays me at least in some small way, I have adjusted my expectations of people to be more realistic.

Friends are very valuable, and so I insist my friendships are based around mutual self interest.

Solipsism is dangerous, you can't expect to be treated as you imagine you treat others.
_________________________
"god" was an invention of Satan, to teach us how stupid we are. magic always works, but our expectations are often at odds with reality.

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#342439 - 07/27/08 11:28 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Charlie R]
Chess Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/09/02
Posts: 1473
Loc: Chicago, IL USA
Quote:
To this day I don't know why the guy decided to cast me out of the group, and it still remains the most painful thing I've ever felt.


Prediction One:

Within five years you'll look back on this statement and laugh your head off.

Prediction Two:

The next thing to take the title of "most painful thing I've ever felt" will be done by a lover, not a best friend.

This is not to belittle your feelings. Far from it -- in fact, from your post it sounds to me like you've handled the situation perfectly. But I can also all-but-guarantee you that within a year or two of graduation there will be new events in your life -- good AND bad -- that utterly dwarf any realignments of high school cliques. (And within a year or two of THAT will come experiences to dwarf THOSE.)

Quote:
I don't care if you read the bulk of this post, but I'm still interested to see if this kind of thing happens on a regular basis to people in their adolescent years.


Yes, it absolutely does. But the important thing to remember -- and the thing that I would tell myself if I could go back in time to meet myself in high school -- is just how little all this high school social crap matters. So have some fun with it if you can, and don't let it drive you to the brink. This is nothing but the practice round.

(Next secret: so is college.)

-Chess

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#342445 - 07/28/08 02:19 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: Chess]
Sakura Offline



Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 220
Loc: The Circus
I can relate to the "problem" a bit. Even though my view is quite different. When I moved back home at 15/16, mostly being home schooled due to the lack of good schooling in Africa, I had to start attending a regular High School in the Netherlands. I remember being quite the attraction on my first day, which lasted throughout my High school career. The thing is, that I wasn't really placeable in a so-called box. I was never popular and I was never an outcast, I was just the "odd" one, with a nasty temper if you pissed me off or was looking for trouble.

I wasn't there to make friends, I was there for the sole purpose of graduating and moving on to the next stage. I had "friends" mostly consisting of "outcasts", who looked up to me in some weird way and a few popular kids who seemed to like the fact that I was "odd". The people that lashed out at me were mostly insecure and scared and had no other way of communicating. Or even better, they were just plain stupid. How many times was I called a "nigger" whilst I was actually white? I think I lost count along the way. I ignored them most of the time, or played pranks on them in front of the rest of the school (whoopee cushions and chewing gum that colors your teeth blue for example) so they'd feel embarrassed. Some of them actually still remember me, I think I left quite an impression back in the day grin.

As far as friendships go, I think it's age related in a weird way, I think when you are in High School, having friends and trying to "belong" are somehow the most important things and as you grow older you get other priorities. I've had friends and lost them countless times, usually because they betrayed me or hated me for some weird reason. Yes, it hurt, yes, I was angry, but I learned to cherish the friends I made along the way, because I know that sooner or later our paths are going to separate along the way, due to changes in life and personalities. Realizing friends are nice, but that YOU are the driver on the bus called "life" is probably the most important thing. Life is what YOU make of it, not the friends you encounter along the way, they're just nice to have fun with, but don't really do anything for your own personal growth, that's what you do yourself. Okay, not entirely, because there actually are people you can learn from, but in general it all comes down to your own choices.

I had a best friend, whom betrayed me after eight years of friendship. To be completely honest, she had been fucking me over all the time I knew her, I just never noticed. She was always so jealous of who I was and what I did, she spent her time deliberately sabotaging every single relationship I had. She just couldn't stand seeing me happy, whilst she was lost, spreading her legs for just about every man she could find. Somehow she always succeeded in driving a wedge between me and my partners. She also told my mother stuff I had told her in confidence, twisted my words and drove a wedge between me and my mother, which resulted in big fights and me leaving home. In the end my mother and I made up, and I confronted the friend about it and she apologized saying that it was never her intention. Stupid me for believing her.

About two and a half years ago I was in a relationship with someone that she knew quite well, and we were together for about a year and a half. He was her "big brother" so to speak and during that time I got to see her for whom she really was. She was going through relationship troubles which ended up in a break-up and whom did she cling to? Yep, my boyfriend. She'd call him up in the middle of the night because she needed "comfort" and he'd come running. He'd never talk about what happened there, but I wasn't that stupid. One night I asked her if she wanted my support as well, because she was my friend too, but she refused my help, accusing me of "having changed" and only using my boyfriend for his money. First of all he wasn't rich at all, I could have gotten someone who had more cash than he had, if I was a genuine "gold digger". I was so pissed at both of them I packed my bags, my three cats, called my mother to come and pick me up and I never saw them again.

I decided then and there that friends were nice to have, but that I also had to realize that most of them are temporary. Enjoy them while they are there, but don't depend on them to much. This is also why I love my cats so much, they are the most loyal "friends" I'll ever have and everything I share with them never leaves the house grin. Gotta love your furry/scaly/feathery companions!! I'm ranting again...
_________________________
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "otherwise you wouldn't have come here."
Alice didn't think that proved it at all: however she went on. "And how do you know that you're mad?"
"To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?"
"I suppose so," said Alice.
"Well, then, " the Cat went on, "you see a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad."

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#342476 - 07/28/08 10:17 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: Sakura]
Descendant Offline


Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Inland Empire, Ca
Many people think of me as their "friend" but I don't really consider many people to be my "friend". Because of the way my personality has evoloved over the past 10-15 years (I'm 34 by the way) I have just about totally eliminated the need for friendships from my life, and am totally satisfied by that. Maybe due to my Elitest mentality and my choice to charish my life and my physical being instead of party away my sorrows and drown-out everything that I'm afraid to face. I totally agree that in school we are convinced that social status is all that matters even if it means our own identities be lost. Sometimes people wake-up and find themselves but sometimes people spend entire lifetimes striving to "fit-in" to that group that they always wanted to be part of. I have a few good friends but like me they have lives of their own to live, which works out perfect for me. Small doses of friendship works excellent in my world.
_________________________
"Jealousy is an emotion often found in individuals whose estimation of their own worth exceeds their achievements."- from "The Satanic Scriptures" by Peter H. Gilmore

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#342480 - 07/28/08 10:51 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: gypsy]
Rory_Rocketpants Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/28/05
Posts: 1795
Loc: unknown
Originally Posted By: gypsy
Doesn't anybody keep a fucking journal anymore or a diary? zombie



Oh Gypsy, how I miss you. smile

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#342508 - 07/28/08 02:37 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Rory_Rocketpants]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Quote:
Oh Gypsy, how I miss you. smile


Well, turn the damn thing back on already. wink
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#342524 - 07/28/08 06:16 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Charlie R]
DickSteele Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 1411
Quid pro quo

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#342720 - 07/29/08 09:07 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Svengali]
Enigma777 Offline


Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 291
Originally Posted By: Svengali

To paraphrase (and vandalize) Barbara Striesand; "People who need people are the most pathetic people in the world."


I strongly agree with most of your honest post except for this quote. But I may be looking at it differently than you intended so it might help to elaborate.
A child will die if it doesn't receive any care after birth. I needed my family when I was a kid, and I'm still loyal to them now.

Humans are social creatures and one shouldn't deny the benefits of government and society.
I know of a man who did, and followed his words and ideologies with much zeal and enthusiasm. He was young, full of energy and full of potential.............. He ended up alone, miserable, starved and dead inside an abandoned bus. skull He neglected everyone that loved him but still sought help from HUMANS on many occasions including even going to a homeless shelter grin
Chris Mccandless--Read Into the Wild or watch the film.


Edited by nicesatan777 (07/29/08 09:27 PM)

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#342731 - 07/29/08 10:17 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Svengali]
Thos Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/14/07
Posts: 161
Loc: Pacific NW
I agree with you in the sense that getting ahead comes first. I have had a few long term friends and I am moving ahead with my plans and leaving them behind. There is the unspoken understanding that this must be done.

My own brother, who is like a best friend to me, is moving away to pursue his own education, and I couldn't be happier. In a sense, his drive to move on serves to strengthen my own resolve, and vice versa.

Real friends understand. Survival comes first.
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#342735 - 07/29/08 10:33 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Enigma777]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Society at large is pathetic. The prospect of being on their own actually scares the shit out of most People.

I absolutely cherish my solitude and am considered by most a recluse because of it.

People come and go (mostly I want them to go) but I am always my best friend. I spend my spare time effortlessly and without interruption from the nonsense of lame ducks that chatter on endlessly about - nothing really. I prefer to avoid the mind games that most blood sucking assholes try to play. My time is MY leisure.
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#342741 - 07/29/08 11:52 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: gypsy]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3580
Loc: Calgary
I can relate. "Don't you get lonely?" some people ask.

Why would I? I'm the most kick-ass guy I have ever known.

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#342742 - 07/30/08 12:39 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: gypsy]
Sakura Offline



Registered: 07/01/08
Posts: 220
Loc: The Circus
Originally Posted By: gypsy
Society at large is pathetic. The prospect of being on their own actually scares the shit out of most People.


I agree with you on that, people are actually scared shitless of the prospect of being alone. I know countless people who hop from one relationship to another, just because they can't stand the fact they have to be on their own, without someone to share absolutely everything with. They even get together with people they don't even really like or love, just for that. People are mad.
_________________________
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "otherwise you wouldn't have come here."
Alice didn't think that proved it at all: however she went on. "And how do you know that you're mad?"
"To begin with," said the Cat, "a dog's not mad. You grant that?"
"I suppose so," said Alice.
"Well, then, " the Cat went on, "you see a dog growls when it's angry, and wags its tail when it's pleased. Now I growl when I'm pleased, and wag my tail when I'm angry. Therefore I'm mad."

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#342796 - 07/30/08 09:35 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: Sakura]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Sakura
They even get together with people they don't even really like or love, just for that.


Sounds like christmas and birthdays in my family smile I remember one year my dad tried to make it sound like they were doing me a favor by inviting me "because nobody should be alone on such a night". Screw christmas - the nights where I need to be with other people are if my significant other leaves me, if I'm really sick and need help or if a gang of outlaw bikers are one the way over to my place to beat me up smile Holidays and so on I'll manage on my own.
_________________________
While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#342801 - 07/30/08 09:52 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: gypsy]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 7000
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
I have commented before that I have noticed that many people seem to firmly believe that they will cease to exist if they are not noticed by other people. It's as if they have no ability to validate their own existence, so they have to see it relfected back to them by others.

Do not get me wrong. There are some people I enjoy being around. I have just never understood the need to never be alone.
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"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#342802 - 07/30/08 10:01 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: verszou]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
We have all heard that ridiculous phrase

Quote:
nobody should be alone on


Ask the Satanic question "Why?"

If they have any capacity for thinking [don't bank on it], that question will worry them.
_________________________
We are the makers of manners. (Shakespeare)

http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/clickToGive/home.faces?siteId=3

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#342810 - 07/30/08 10:54 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: Charlie R]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
My problem with having "friends" is that my loyalty always exceeds theirs, every time. I know I make a great friend, but I've never really had the favor returned, unless you count my wife, my kids, and my pets who are truly the greatest friends I've ever had. Everyone else is just a friendly acquaintance at best. Even family members are easier to love from a distance.

I have no shortage of friendly acquaintances, and I think that’s a good thing. There are a lot of people who like me, and most of them I like as well, but I don’t “hang out” with people, go out with “the guys”, or anything like that. I have no desire to because I realized early on that being around people almost always ruins my evening. I don’t invite people over because as soon as they arrive I am ready for them to leave. When I go out to eat, it’s with my tribe – my wife and kids. When I have a drink, I happily have one alone.

My wife, my kids, my pets, and myself. No trouble, no betrayals.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#342822 - 07/30/08 12:05 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: gypsy]
Zardex Offline


Registered: 03/12/08
Posts: 310
Originally Posted By: gypsy
Society at large is pathetic. The prospect of being on their own actually scares the shit out of most People.

I absolutely cherish my solitude and am considered by most a recluse because of it.


It is potentially a wise tactic in the light of the philosophical presumption that Success/Expectation=Happiness (Not that I wholeheartedly agree to every application of this presumption, but it makes much sense).

People with something very lasting to contribute for a sense of meaning are rare, especially when the concept of meaning in life is perhaps nothing more than a lie.
However it is probably possible for the more social personalities to construct reasonable expectation within one's social life, even if among the mediocre, that will yield reasonable success in relation to expectations, or perhaps the construction of such expectations can even form one's personality to a more social one when and if this is a desired direction.

Perhaps it is because no concrete meaning really exists, that we have the power to be our own Gods, to lie to ourselves and produce an illusion of meaning we see as suitable to each occasion, environment and emotion.

Perhaps this is also why, if we believe we have found true concrete meaning, we may have enslaved ourselves to servitude of another God then ourselves.
Once we name a meaning outside ourselves, we may dethrone whatever we perceive as the self to servitude of this meaning.

Additionally the whole concept of the self may well be nothing more than an abstract illusion of a pool of wills and powers (biological and memetic) that dictate our different levels of consciousness through the medium of our brains.

Regardless, for the pursuit of happiness, it seems to me that the most effective technique for an intelligent, strong willed and resourceful individual is to "consciously"(whatever that means) strive to remain on the throne of Godhood and enjoy our lives to the best of our ability.
It also seems that this allows for a healthy reinforcement of resourcefulness.

This, coming together with other carnal tools that Anton LaVey once decided to form a religion on and that are still being refined with Magus Peter H. Gilmore as the “conductor of the Satanic Symphony”, is pretty much what I perceive as Satanism.

Forgive me for such a long rant.
Your post inspired me to gather my thoughts and type them down.
_________________________
"Art is not merely an imitation of the reality of nature, but in truth a metaphysical supplement to the reality of nature, placed alongside thereof for its conquest."
Friedrich Nietzsche

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#342861 - 07/30/08 03:20 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: verszou]
Enigma777 Offline


Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 291
Originally Posted By: verszou
Originally Posted By: Sakura
They even get together with people they don't even really like or love, just for that.


Sounds like christmas and birthdays in my family smile I remember one year my dad tried to make it sound like they were doing me a favor by inviting me "because nobody should be alone on such a night". Screw christmas - the nights where I need to be with other people are if my significant other leaves me, if I'm really sick and need help or if a gang of outlaw bikers are one the way over to my place to beat me up smile Holidays and so on I'll manage on my own.



Don't you love your dad?
Even if he is wrong about you being alone, the fact that he decided to invite you shows that he thinks about you and cares about you. It's not like it is his intention to torture you.

The people I cherish most are me and my family. Despite the fact that I have a big ego and in my opinion, I am the most interesting and superb man I know, I'm still very loyal to the wonderful people that taught me and took care of me all those years.
My parents are De-Facto Satanists and they have done so much for me and taught me so much that I feel I should owe them the loyalty I give them. Them, along with the rest of my family are the only people I can absolutely trust and not fear any betrayal from.

I'm always careful with "friends."

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#342881 - 07/30/08 05:24 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Enigma777]
Descendant Offline


Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Inland Empire, Ca
I give my Parents zero credit for what I am today, not out of spite or because I'm some ingrate though. The reason being is that; looking back to my most inmpressionable years they really didn't teach me anything of worth, all of my most meaningful teachings came from people who had no obligation to do so. I spent many years seeking acceptance from my parents who did nothing but treat me like a burden from the day I was born. Once I realized where I belonged in life, it was made clear to me that I owe them nothing. To the few people that took the time with me I have thanked them, maybe in some cases people are ingrates but maybe in some cases we should be judgemental. My parents who thought that I owed them something were repaid by me in the way that they were acknowledged as non-contributers to the person that I am today. I am happy to spend my Holidays alone rather than with people who might be proud of themselves to see my successes or with the few who might still be around that did contribute to this evil.


Edited by Descendant (07/30/08 05:25 PM)
_________________________
"Jealousy is an emotion often found in individuals whose estimation of their own worth exceeds their achievements."- from "The Satanic Scriptures" by Peter H. Gilmore

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#342904 - 07/30/08 08:01 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Charlie R]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Betrayal is the worst. Apologies are only words. The ninth circle of hell is for traitors. skull

What or how much you disclose to people is up to you but at least be cognizant of the risks. As a rule, people confound me. I learned a long time ago (and am routinely reminded) that very few speak my language. That doesn’t bother me but it does mean I’m not eager to share.

Other than that, I would caution you against putting too much weight in other people's opinions about you. I mention this because I've seen people get obsessed with it, like an addiction or compulsion to perform. I’m not talking about the perfectly healthy and reasonable desire for companionship or camaraderie. I’m talking about folks who crave acceptance soooo badly that even simple, seemingly private things (like what book they read or what music they listen to) are held up to the standards and criteria of the group. Or they get weirdly hyper-sensitive or paranoid. What seems to happen is the person's entire self-worth is dictated by others. They credit others for their happiness and they blame others for their unhappiness. Great way to shirk responsibility but besides that I cannot fathom why someone would opt for this. Constantly having one eye on someone else sounds exhausting to me.

Granted, the opposite extreme can be troublesome too. I'm probably insular to a fault and I've been told I am "obtuse" or "insensitive" when I don't pay attention to other people. I'm really not trying to be mean; I am just genuinely unaware of others most of the time. I think the problems this might cause are obvious so suffice it to say, in certain situations, being totally oblivious is not good Lesser Magic. Context is everything.
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

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#342912 - 07/30/08 09:03 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Descendant]
Enigma777 Offline


Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 291
Originally Posted By: Descendant
I give my Parents zero credit for what I am today, not out of spite or because I'm some ingrate though. The reason being is that; looking back to my most inmpressionable years they really didn't teach me anything of worth, all of my most meaningful teachings came from people who had no obligation to do so. I spent many years seeking acceptance from my parents who did nothing but treat me like a burden from the day I was born. Once I realized where I belonged in life, it was made clear to me that I owe them nothing. To the few people that took the time with me I have thanked them, maybe in some cases people are ingrates but maybe in some cases we should be judgemental. My parents who thought that I owed them something were repaid by me in the way that they were acknowledged as non-contributers to the person that I am today. I am happy to spend my Holidays alone rather than with people who might be proud of themselves to see my successes or with the few who might still be around that did contribute to this evil.


If your parents are as awful as you say, then I guess you're right.
Hope your life is better now, and that your kids have a guardian that cares about them more than your's did.
I'm sorry.


Edited by nicesatan777 (07/30/08 09:03 PM)

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#342947 - 07/30/08 11:43 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Enigma777]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: nicesatan777
Don't you love your dad?
Even if he is wrong about you being alone, the fact that he decided to invite you shows that he thinks about you and cares about you. It's not like it is his intention to torture you.


I think that some of the context did not come across very well in the way I described it. With my family things are often coated in layers of politeness when being said and there are a lot of psychological games going on all the time.

In this case things were framed as if I was being done a huge favor that I did not deserve, whether I wanted it or not.

We seem to have very dissimilar backgrounds, the family I grew up in was very dysfunctional and the new family my dad has now are people with very different standards than me. So in my world there is much less backstabbing and more trust with friends than with family.

So, given that and without the context I can see how it might appear odd to you. It probably wasn't that good an example.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#342995 - 07/31/08 09:44 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: verszou]
Descendant Offline


Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Inland Empire, Ca
My life is beautiful, what I wrote about above was a discovery I made that helped me become a better person. Living my life for myself instead of others. My parents aren't "awful" people, they are just people who were not ready to have kids when they did, maybe because they were just kids themselves. It's all dust in the wind now, I wasted too much time trying to win acceptance from people that werent accepting applications. I have a small family now of my own creation that is well taken care of. The positive I did take out of my upbringing is that I was able to use my experiences to better my ability to raise/protect my own family. I credit myself for that though!
_________________________
"Jealousy is an emotion often found in individuals whose estimation of their own worth exceeds their achievements."- from "The Satanic Scriptures" by Peter H. Gilmore

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#342997 - 07/31/08 10:11 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: Shade]
pure_truth Offline


Registered: 07/13/08
Posts: 20
Originally Posted By: Shade
I'm probably insular to a fault and I've been told I am "obtuse" or "insensitive" when I don't pay attention to other people. I'm really not trying to be mean; I am just genuinely unaware of others most of the time.


I get called "mean" or anti-social all the time. My wife can walk down the street and a hundred people (men or women) will acknowledge her with a hello or a smile. Meanwhile if I walk down the street, she always mentions that I am always "looking" mean and nobody acknowledges me. One of our neighbors actually said to my wife that I was anti-social because I did not speak to him once when I was walking the dog. The reasoning behind that was I only saw him one time and didn't recognize him. Of course he did not mention to my wife that he didn't greet me either even though he recognized me.

I say the hell with them all. It makes no difference to me. I don't have time for games. My real friends understand that I am not going to walk down a street with a smile on my face trying to get the attention of the people. I don't care if I meet anyone. I am normally just focused on getting something accomplished and don't care to notice the people around me. Someone that values my appearance, time or energy will make the effort to acknowledge me.

Needless to say, my wife hasn't made any potential good relationships when walking around smiling. In fact it is the opposite she has had a bunch of relationships that just give her a lot of pain. But that is her decision to do what she wants. Just leave me out of it, I say.

Hail me!

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#343006 - 07/31/08 11:36 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: pure_truth]
Descendant Offline


Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Inland Empire, Ca
"Someone that values my appearance, time or energy will make the effort to acknowledge me."

I totally agree with the above statement, that is my philosophy on relations exactly. I would rather somebody seek out my friendship rather than go seek out friendships.
_________________________
"Jealousy is an emotion often found in individuals whose estimation of their own worth exceeds their achievements."- from "The Satanic Scriptures" by Peter H. Gilmore

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#343041 - 07/31/08 02:47 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: pure_truth]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
The only point I was trying to make in my last paragraph is that not caring or paying attention to other people’s perceptions of you can be counter-productive. Whether or not smiling, making chit-chat, or otherwise being pleasantly social comes naturally to me doesn’t matter. If it suits the situation I will make a conscious effort to try to be more engaging because people generally respond favourably to that.

I certainly don’t do that 24/7, I doubt I could. I seem to be missing that Mary Sunshine gene and, like you, I would rather not be perceived as approachable by the majority out there. But I’m not going to shoot myself in the foot by scowling if appearing otherwise does the trick... And hey, I saw Besson’s Nikita, I know about smiling. smile
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us – all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

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#343054 - 07/31/08 04:47 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Enigma777]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
McCandless was a fucking moron who got what he deserved.

My comment was directed at the pathetic emotionally needy types who can't seem to survive without being immersed in mindless socializing.

I'm not talking about babies needing food or inner-city/suburban loners needing utility companies.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

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#343058 - 07/31/08 06:23 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Svengali]
Enigma777 Offline


Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 291
Originally Posted By: Svengali
McCandless was a fucking moron who got what he deserved.

My comment was directed at the pathetic emotionally needy types who can't seem to survive without being immersed in mindless socializing.

I'm not talking about babies needing food or inner-city/suburban loners needing utility companies.


Well in that case, I agree with you wholeheartedly!

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#343203 - 08/01/08 11:18 AM Re: Betrayal [Re: Enigma777]
Descendant Offline


Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Inland Empire, Ca
Shade-Your smile is "Plotting", "Devious", and "comforting"!
_________________________
"Jealousy is an emotion often found in individuals whose estimation of their own worth exceeds their achievements."- from "The Satanic Scriptures" by Peter H. Gilmore

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#343598 - 08/03/08 01:13 PM Re: Betrayal [Re: Chess]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
You are absolutely right, Chess. The old betrayals often (though not always!) become a laughing matter in retrospect, because they are often quickly replaced and outdone by an even bigger betrayal or heartache down the line. Hurrah! vomit

I've been betrayed by a couple of friends as well. One minute we were fine, just as we'd always been, and then, BAM! Drama-rama. It hurts at the time, oh yes it does. But, it can prove to be a valuable learning experience, too, in various ways.

I admit that while I am generally a loner, I do desire relationships and closeness with other human beings. I didn't always have this desire; it emerged in late adolescence, and has since then been the source of great ambivalence for me, because it has always proven to be such a mixed bag of joys and sorrows.

The hunger for interaction, warmth, and love is a snare that binds up our hearts and minds; keeps us tethered to emotions and in the thrall and company of other human beings. To love is to risk loss. To reach out is to risk rejection. To pine for closeness is to expose oneself to potential loneliness. To trust is to risk betrayal. To desire acceptance is to open oneself up to social shame.To become deeply intertwined with the fates and feelings of others is to earn a front row seat to all their drama and insanity.

On the other hand, we can come to have unique and powerful feelings and experiences in relationships that we wouldn't want to trade for anything, and wouldn't have been able to have otherwise. If you love, you may be loved. If you reach out, you may be embraced. If you trust, that trust may be validated and returned, with interest.

Whether the rose is worth the thorns is all in the eyes of the beholder.

(My jury periodically changes its verdict!)

Human beings are often loony, shifty apes, and young human beings even more so. They are hyper-emotional, and so their emotions run away from them. They blame others for their own mistakes. They act before they think, and look before they leap. They engage in groupthink, succumb to peer pressure, and glom together into herds and packs. Their shame, their hurt, their greed, their insecurity, their fear, their loneliness all quickly morph into rage, spite, and viciousness, which are then often directed at the nearest and safest targets, instead of the most deserving or appropriate ones.

It was smart and lucky that I often kept my head down during high school, so to speak, because there was a lot of drama that went down in those hallowed halls, and probably 95% of it missed me (and I surely didn't miss it)!
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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