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#345923 - 08/13/08 04:11 PM Credibility of man's evolution
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
It has been a while since I have started a topic about Evolution vs Creationism. Since creationism is obviously a false beginning, these videos show that evolution from apes may also be false. Check these out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opX5s57MKIk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JlaXHi3yPwQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TgBdDMKsgU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w53BLnN0REg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6CVHCb5AS8
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#345924 - 08/13/08 04:24 PM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: LordofDarkness]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Quote:
evolution from apes may also be false

The only people I see who claim evolution proposes "man came from apes", are the creationists and other people who've never really researched the subject. Evolution demonstrates how modern-day apes, including humans, share a common ancestor. Actually, evolution shows how a common ancestor can be found between any two living species, but some pairs have more recent common ancestors than others.

The documentary has been debunked for a while now:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/mom/mom-review.html
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#345941 - 08/13/08 05:02 PM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: Bill_M]
Danielle Alicia
Unregistered


I just want to second Reverend Bill's observation. I live with a scientist (Ph.D from Cambridge), and we have many scientists over for discussions. There is no evolutionary discussion among professionals I am aware of that says we came from apes or their ilk.

We just share a common ancestor is all.

Hope Reverend Bill helped clear up any confusion on the matter for you!

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#345945 - 08/13/08 05:27 PM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: ]
HammerOfDoubt Offline


Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 479
Loc: Miami, FL
People who criticize the theory of evolution are those who do not understand it. This is consistently proven true.
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#345963 - 08/13/08 06:46 PM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: HammerOfDoubt]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: HammerOfDoubt
People who criticize the theory of evolution are those who do not understand it. This is consistently proven true.

I find that this is most painfully revealed by the other phrases you hear them use so often: "It's just a theory", "Darwin recanted on this death bed", "Why do we still have monkies [sic]?", "It violates the 3rd law of dynamo-thermics, or something like that". When I hear these, I know I'm dealing with somebody who hasn't done their homework.

It's pretty sad when even Answers in Genesis, one of the biggest creationist sites, advises creationists not to use some of these lines!
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Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

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#345965 - 08/13/08 06:50 PM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: Bill_M]
Danielle Alicia
Unregistered


This is exactly right, Reverend. There isn't a single credible biologist on the planet who denies evolution. If he or she did, they would be laughed right out of any forum they entered. Evolution is not a theory, it's a fact.

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#345967 - 08/13/08 06:57 PM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: ]
Linguascelesta Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 2352
Loc: Europa
Originally Posted By: DanielleAlicia
Evolution is not a theory, it's a fact.


Well, technically it is a theory.

To say it is a fact, and mean that statement 100%, would mean actually having faith in evolution.

Now, I have plenty of confidence in the veracity of the theory of evolution, but not faith.

Charles Darwin isn't my god any more than Jehovah is.

(However, you're welcome to say I'm splitting epistemological hairs)

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#345968 - 08/13/08 07:01 PM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: ]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Danielle Alicia
Evolution is not a theory, it's a fact.

Strictly speaking, it's a theory and a fact. Unfortunately people keep thinking that the word "theory" in science means "a guess", which it doesn't. A guess or conjecture is called a "hypothesis". Only after withstanding tests from the scientific method does it become a theory. I wonder if these people think the same way about music theory. "You can say that this song is in the key of D...but that's just a theory." crazy

I've always loved this quote from Stephen Jay Gould, which I was happy to see make it into Purging Talon's The Book of Satanic Quotations:

Quote:
"Facts and theories are different things, not rungs in a hierarchy of increasing certainty. Facts are the world's data. Theories are structures of ideas that explain and interpret facts. Facts don't go away when scientists debate rival theories to explain them. Einstein's theory of gravitation replaced Newton's in this century, but apples didn't suspend themselves in midair, pending the outcome. And humans evolved from ape-like ancestors whether they did so by Darwin's proposed mechanism or by some other yet to be discovered.

Moreover, "fact" doesn't mean "absolute certainty"; there ain't no such animal in an exciting and complex world. The final proofs of logic and mathematics flow deductively from stated premises and achieve certainty only because they are not about the empirical world. Evolutionists make no claim for perpetual truth, though creationists often do (and then attack us falsely for a style of argument that they themselves favor). In science "fact" can only mean "confirmed to such a degree that it would be perverse to withhold provisional consent." I suppose that apples might start to rise tomorrow, but the possibility does not merit equal time in physics classrooms.

[source]
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#345974 - 08/13/08 07:17 PM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: Bill_M]
Danielle Alicia
Unregistered


I think I will just do my artist thing and leave the science to the scientists! smile

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#346014 - 08/13/08 10:22 PM "modern-day apes, including man" [Re: Bill_M]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Not to quibble! But I don't see what is offensive or inaccurate about saying that man evolved from apes. Or am I confused about how the taxonomy works?

Quote:
The only people I see who claim evolution proposes "man came from apes", are the creationists and other people who've never really researched the subject. Evolution demonstrates how modern-day apes, including humans, share a common ancestor.

On either of two reasonable definitions of "ape" (one that includes man, one that does not), man evolved from apes.

You could define an ape as "any species in the family of Hominoidea". That family includes man, as well as the other apes. Their common ancestor would also be in this family, and so, would be an ape. On this definition, man is an ape.

You could define an ape as "any non-human species in the family of Hominoidea". In that case, man is not an ape. But the common ancestor would be an ape, because it would be in this family but would not be a human. By this definition, even the direct ancestors of man, postdating the split from the other apes (eg. genus Australopithecus), would still be apes — because they are in the family of Hominoidea, but not humans (genus Homo).

Man is not evolved from any of the existing ape species; but that's an historical accident. There is no reason in principle why the ancestor of man should not have survived to be contemporary to man. It just so happens that this did not occur.


Edited by reprobate (08/13/08 10:24 PM)
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#346018 - 08/13/08 10:32 PM Re: "modern-day apes, including man" [Re: reprobate]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Well, this all really stems from the fact that biologists and naturalists are horrible at systematizing classifications. Always have been.
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#346042 - 08/14/08 01:11 AM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: ]
mattie Offline


Registered: 01/16/08
Posts: 37
Loc: Tulsa, OK
"I think I will just do my artist thing and leave the science to the scientists!"

You should, of course, do what pleases you.

That being said, this statement hurts me a little, we few rational folks need to know science and fervently defend good science from the ever present barrage of pseudoscientific balderdash that permeates our culture.

It always pleases me to see people, like Reverend Bill in this case, step up to defend good science.

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#346047 - 08/14/08 01:28 AM Crazy or not? [Re: Jack_Lantern]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Many of us say that we have evolved from apes while some of us may question the theory. However this video will argue about humans being evolved from apes directly. I am bringing this up because I myself only believe what has been proven and not what is suppose to be or what is assumed to be. Yet I am interested in many different opinions because that gives me more information to take into account. I like to hear all of your opinions so I thank all of you for debating with me. To some, I would like to say that I ask you to have patience with me. I am not trying to prove anyone wrong or argue about this. This whole topic is meant to debate and to think outside of the box. In the first video of my post, Charlton Heston stated that nobody knows for sure where we came from. This gives all theories an equal validity as Darwin's theory. You have every right to believe whichever suits you best as it says in the The Satanic Bible. Thank you all again for debating with me.

In this video, there is a scientist by the name of Lloyd Pye arguing about humans not having any relation to apes around the video time of 8 minutes and 20 seconds. However I suggest watching all of this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G0NTEFvQyxg&NR=1

Here is another video recorded in one of his teachings;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKjv9m_EE64




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#346070 - 08/14/08 07:23 AM Re: Credibility of man's evolution [Re: mattie]
Danielle Alicia
Unregistered


Originally Posted By: mattie
"I think I will just do my artist thing and leave the science to the scientists!"

You should, of course, do what pleases you.

That being said, this statement hurts me a little, we few rational folks need to know science and fervently defend good science from the ever present barrage of pseudoscientific balderdash that permeates our culture.

It always pleases me to see people, like Reverend Bill in this case, step up to defend good science.



Thank you for your encouragement! I will always--as is my nature--keep growing and learning in life. smile

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#346097 - 08/14/08 10:32 AM Re: Crazy or not? [Re: ]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 756
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Thank you for the advice. I'll be checking those books out sometime this week. Are there any other books I should check out?

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