#35203 - 04/14/04 05:48 AM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Josephine007]
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Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
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Quote:
The 'vamp scene' is not Vampirism.
Do NOT get the two confused.
Of course not! Believe me, I know the difference. I only referred to the Vamp scene because... A)I only gravitated to it because of the aesthetic and because those type of nightclubs tend to play the music I listen to. I am a party goer, I was there for the party, nothing more. I just happened to meet some people along the way, thus allowing me to further witness what this scene was truly about on a deeper level. I was not impressed or pleased after knowing what their version of Vampirism was about. I already knew this was NOT the place to go to research this realm. B) I noticed that more Satanists (some COS members) are going to these events.
Quote:
I warmly invite you to the Gate of the Temple at the ToV Message Board. There, you will encounter a post entitled, "Real Vampires versus pretenders". This post clearly answers your stated set of questions.
I would begin THERE, rather then here.
Go straight to the source.
Thank you. I have already been there before. I plan on purchasing the Vampire Bible and I've read Magister Nemo's post a while ago. It was wonderfully written and I share his sentiments. But that is only one point of view...I would like to hear view points from other Satanists here as well, TOV member or not. And like I said, this doesn't have to delve into specifics about the TOV religion. I can find that out on my own. 
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#35207 - 04/14/04 01:54 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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CoS Member
Registered: 10/14/03
Posts: 499
Loc: Cincinnati
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Your inquiry would be answered completely with a little study. The philosophies of both are outlined in their Bibles.
Temple of the Vampire
The Church of Satan
Study these, and you will have your answers. Then you will not need to rely on the opinions of others, but instead on cold hard facts. The true bedrock of knowledge.
Regards,
Solomon
Edited by Solomon (04/14/04 01:57 PM)
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#35208 - 04/14/04 02:56 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: C_D_McKinna]
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Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
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Quote:
I see no problem with role playing, as long as a person realizes that they are indeed only role playing.
Me either...it's all about having fun. That is the only value I found going to these places. Nothing more.
Quote:
And that is precisely what you are refering to: role playing. It should not be confused with Vampirism, just as a man dressed up as a chicken should not be confused with a genuine chicken. Putting on a black cape and plastic fangs does not allow one to live forever any more than putting on a chicken suit will allow one to lay an egg.
I am not confused, I expressed I knew the difference already. I agree with your analogy, unfortunatly many people don't. Actually, I wasn't just refering to roleplay, I was asking what *real* Vampirism means to individuals also. To me, Vampirism is a "higher level" of Satanism...
attaining or developing powers of the body and mind such as, superior strength, clairvoyance, telepathy, etc. *is* becoming truly divine. Any pompous minion can read the Satanic Bible and claim he is a God just because Dr LaVey says so! To me, just acknowledging that there are no dieties before you, so that automatically makes you a "god" is just not cutting it. What makes one truly divine? Advancing your mind and body does! I have encountered many individuals who are Satanists and claim that they are "gods" but don't know the first thing about self defense, and advancing the body or mind! I consider myself to be very openminded and I can attest that these abilities can be attained and worked on. There are also many stupid individuals in the Vamp scene that don't know the first thing about this subject either. Now as for the TOV, that is something that I really don't know about but I'm planning to research...but that is not this discussion.
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#35209 - 04/14/04 03:05 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Solomon]
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Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
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Quote:
Your inquiry would be answered completely with a little study. The philosophies of both are outlined in their Bibles.
Temple of the Vampire
The Church of Satan
Study these, and you will have your answers. Then you will not need to rely on the opinions of others, but instead on cold hard facts. The true bedrock of knowledge.
I do study. I am not relying on the opinions of others...I'm just curious. I was aiming for a discussion not a course on Vampirism or Satanism. I just gave my opinion and I would like to hear yours. I'm not looking for answers...I know where to go, just an intellectual discussion. 
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#35210 - 04/14/04 03:16 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: LKRice]
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Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
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Quote:
Sounds like the vamp scene is rife with the same sort of idiots who gravitate to pseudo-Satanic organizations.
Yes you are correct. It's ridiculous and not much different. You tend to find those psuedo-Satanists here too. You find card carrying members there also. But I'm assuming that they are there just for their amusement and the party just like I was. 
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#35211 - 04/14/04 03:49 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6795
Loc: Forever West
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Any pompous minion can read the Satanic Bible and claim he is a God just because Dr LaVey says so!
Dr. LaVey never said so. He never said I was a God. In fact I never had the pleasure of speaking with him. I just had the pleasure of reading his books and finding myself in his words.
The importance is not believing you are a god but being a god. One must remember there are others who are gods as well. A god can still be destoryed and so one must understand the importance of survival.
Edited by Discipline (04/14/04 04:29 PM)
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney
"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
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#35212 - 04/14/04 03:54 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 1725
Loc: Belgium
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But I'm assuming that they are there just for their amusement and the party just like I was
Not always, though. The phenomenon of Church of Satan members going to vamp clubs and even joining pseudo-vampire groups and religions seems to be international. I can understand the goth part to a degree - a dark aesthetic seems to appeal to many Satanists.
So if you ever cross the Atlantic and go to a "vampyre" event, chances are good there will be some card-carrying CoS members there also. Not the ones I would personally associate with, but still, CoS members . And if you count the people that call themselves Satanists without actually having joined the Church of Satan (not a prerequisite, I know) or even having recognized themselves in the Satanic Bible, their numbers go up dramatically.
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#35213 - 04/14/04 03:57 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Discipline]
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Registered: 07/17/02
Posts: 359
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Quote:
Any pompous minion can read the Satanic Bible and claim he is a God just because Dr LaVey says so!
Dr. LaVey never said so. He never said I was a God.
True...but I'm sure you get the jist of what I'm trying to convey. When many people read the philosophy of Satanism they tend to assume this.
Quote:
The importance is not believe you are a god but being a god. One must remember there are others who are gods as well. A god can still be destoryed and so one must understand the importance of survival.
Defintely! Which is why it is so vital to advance the body and the mind!
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#35215 - 04/14/04 04:14 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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CoS Member
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
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In my mind, saying that all goths are idiots is like saying that all African-Americans are inferior. It cannot be proven conclusively. However, it does not make much difference. The Satanist is the highest embodiment of life. Anything else would be explored merely as a means of entertainment and/or perhaps a lesson in herd behavior; as far as the limited context of this discussion is concerned.
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton
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#35217 - 04/14/04 04:20 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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CoS Member
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
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Quote:
True...but I'm sure you get the jist of what I'm trying to convey. When many people read the philosophy of Satanism they tend to assume this.
How can you be sure that people who read the Satanic Bible make this assumption? I would not look fondly on such a person. It is the name of the game. Lex Talionis.
From the perspective of a dolt, anyone who might actually be a true to life Master is just as much of a phony as someone without a clue claiming to be Jesus.
This is not an "assumption" in the mind of a Satanist; only in the mind of a dolt. I would not even favor assumption in general, which I would also apply to the idea of being Vampiric.
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton
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#35218 - 04/14/04 04:29 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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CoS Member
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
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As much as I admire your intent of remaining in the "safe zone", there is unfortunately a catch-22 here that makes this discussion unacceptable. Many Satanists are members of the ToV, including Priests and Magisters, and a discussion of gothic vampires would make little sense to a ToV member. At the same time, for those of us who are not ToV members and think of any Goth or Vampire as being role-playing and pure fiction, all comments in that "vein" are also going to cause a disturbance here. I'm not holding anything against you for trying, but for these reasons, it simply can't be done decently.
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton
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#35220 - 04/14/04 04:58 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
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CoS Member
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
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Yes, I am aware of that. But I hardly think that many other people would have a clue as to who exactly they are.
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton
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#35222 - 04/14/04 05:50 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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CoS Warlock
Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6795
Loc: Forever West
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Your questions should not be asked here. This is a forum for Satanists. Even though there are Satanists that are members of ToV this is still not the place to discuss it. Any questions you have for the Temple should be asked at their forum. There you will find those who are well informed and your questions will be answered in the appropriate territory.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney
"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes
“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
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#35223 - 04/14/04 06:15 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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Registered: 08/20/02
Posts: 745
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Quote:
To me, Vampirism is a "higher level" of Satanism...
attaining or developing powers of the body and mind such as, superior strength, clairvoyance, telepathy, etc. *is* becoming truly divine.
A "higher level" of Satanism? I would have thought that aesthetically, vampirism would appeal more as a kind of mirror image to Satanism, where "reality" or dayside has an inverse or fantasy/nightside. I guess the idea of an immortal God preying on the weak is not that big a leap of the imagination away from the idea of the Satanic "wolf" scattering confusion amongst the sheep.
In any case, any Satanist worth his salt should be seeking to develop his mind and body anyway, whether attracted to the vampire aesthetic or not. I sincerely doubt if telepathy and clairvoyance are worthwhile aspirations however, as compared to spiritual pipe dreams. Though heightened imagination, concentration, relaxation practices etc would quite likely pave the way for more intuitive and insightful experiences. As long as one's critical faculties are well exercised too. Balance!
_________________________
This message will self destruct
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#35224 - 04/14/04 06:57 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
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Banned
Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
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Quote:
Ya know, there are actual vampires (not scenesters or RPGers) outside of the ToV.
You know that right? Psi/Psy vampires, sang vampires, They dont run into your house suck your neck and run away at 2am, but there are vampires outside of the ToV and outside of fashion scenes.
No, they are not Vampires, they are disturbed individuals who cannot tell the difference between right from wrong, or fiction from fact.
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#35225 - 04/14/04 07:01 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Carkosa]
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10474
Loc: England
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Now, who was it that said..... "whatever it is, I'm against it." 
_________________________
"u.v.ray is an uncompromising writer who glares at the world with bloodshot eyes. He gazes into the abyss and sees jewels of tragedy, comedy, cruelty, heroism, tenderness, darkness, grit and futility. We Are Glass is a searing collection of seventeen razor-sharp short stories; a very fine collection indeed." -- Paul D. Brazill. www.uvray.moonfruit.com
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#35229 - 04/14/04 08:11 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
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Banned
Registered: 02/05/04
Posts: 2241
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Quote:
Yeah ok... I'm not gonna bother getting into this on here. Like I said in a PM earlier today, I don't care much to make people think the same as me.
So whatever. I'll go back to the music forum now.
Oh dear. 
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#35230 - 04/14/04 10:38 PM
Re: Vampirism
[Re: Satanya]
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CoS Member
Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
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Why did you even bother? I rest my case.
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton
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#35231 - 04/14/04 10:58 PM
Re: Who said it.
[Re: Nemo]
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CoS Reverend
Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10474
Loc: England
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>>Groucho Marx in his wonderful role as supreme Captain Jeffrey T.Spaulding<< Captain Spaulding, that was it. Fantastic! Poor Miss Listheret, I can see my humour is wasted on you.
_________________________
"u.v.ray is an uncompromising writer who glares at the world with bloodshot eyes. He gazes into the abyss and sees jewels of tragedy, comedy, cruelty, heroism, tenderness, darkness, grit and futility. We Are Glass is a searing collection of seventeen razor-sharp short stories; a very fine collection indeed." -- Paul D. Brazill. www.uvray.moonfruit.com
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#35232 - 04/14/04 11:40 PM
Re: Who said it.
[Re: Nemo]
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CoS Member
Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 1758
Loc: Connecticut
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Not to be annoying, but I could have sworn it was Professor Wagstaff in Horse Feathers...but then I haven't watched Marx Brothers movies in years. I do remember Dr. LaVey referred to the quote somewhere in The Devils Notebook.
_________________________
Some boys grow up into men who can look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, and others just go along with the crowd, forgetting after a while that they ever had a choice. ---Roger Ebert www.myspace.com/savagegod
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