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Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism #35535
04/16/04 12:59 PM
04/16/04 12:59 PM

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I am a SGT in the US Army and am trying to download a copy of DA PAM 165-13 which covers recognizzed religeons in the military with no sucess. I have been able to find parts of it but I need the entire regulation, ideally in PDF format. Of course the Chaplains home page and AKO is less worthless on this matter. Does anyone have this regulation?

Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism #35536
04/16/04 03:46 PM
04/16/04 03:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
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Massachusetts
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It's a stinkin' world ol' boy, you got to live in it as best you can.

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Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism #35537
04/16/04 04:01 PM
04/16/04 04:01 PM
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Caesar Offline
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As of now, "Satanism" is not specifically on the list of religions, but you can claim "Other Religion" (though once you see "the list", you'll be surprised to see what specifically is on that list). However, as you know, you can have your own set of dog tags made with "Satanist" on them (as I have), and even if they are inspected, no one is usually the wiser, and won't force you to change it to "Other Religion" (unless they have "the list").

When I was just recently in Kuwait, as part of my outprocessing from Iraq, I was privy to "the list" because I tried to slyly get them to make me an extra set of what I already owned (i.e. "Satanist"), but there was a double take, and they went up the local chain, who then produced "the list" and they said if I wanted a new set made, it would have to be "Other Religion" (I also attempted this when officially changing my records about 6 months prior in Iraq, but again, no dice).

This could be fought for, but until directed by Central, I would not dare try. I am sure they are well aware of these facts.


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Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism #35538
04/16/04 04:04 PM
04/16/04 04:04 PM
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This may be of some use.


"When the long winter nights come on and the wolves follow their meat into the lower valleys, he may be seen running at the head of the pack through the pale moonlight or glimmering borealis, leaping gigantic above his fellows, his great throat a-bellow as he sings a song of the younger world, which is the song of the pack. "Old longings nomadic leap, Chafing at custom's chain: Again from its brumal sleep Wakens the ferine strain."" -Jack London, The Call of the Wild
Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism #35539
04/16/04 06:52 PM
04/16/04 06:52 PM
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I was of the impression that SATANISM is somewhat respected in the military mabye not always in recognition but none the less respected. I have been told that SATANISM is on the LIST when I was in boot camp. If this LIST has changed you would surely not be punished just for your taste and preferences, unless it caused a pattern of disturbances amongst others or violated the HATE GROUP POLICY . To get a copy of the LIST go to the nearest LEAGAL OFFICE where they deal with court martial. Ask politely they have rules and regulations up the anus and they would probably be more than delighted to share their knowledge with you maybe even print it out.

Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: III] #35540
04/16/04 07:45 PM
04/16/04 07:45 PM
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Forever West
Discipline Offline
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I would suggest keeping Satanism on the down low while in the military. Even if it is written somewhere that Satanism is an accepted religion it might not be to your surperiors. You could raise the "Hate" or "discrimination" flag but those in the higher ranks do have pull. Others will take the side of the old crusty Master Sergeant who has 20 years under his belt and not some two year wet nosed PFC (I know you are a Sergeant but even a six year Sergeant does not have as much pull as a 12 year or more SNCO). Don't burn any bridges is what I am basically saying.

I kept my Satanism private while in the Marines and I did just fine. There was no reason for them to know and I saw no benefit to be opened about it.

Last edited by Discipline; 04/17/04 07:07 AM.

"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman
Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: III] #35541
04/17/04 02:37 AM
04/17/04 02:37 AM
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45 degrees N latitude
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This country was built on Satanism, wasn't it? The Pentagon... "In god we trust" on our money? I'm sure there's other theories...


Pleased to meet you... hope you can guess my name! "Sympathy For the Devil" -The Rolling Stones
Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism #35542
04/17/04 05:16 AM
04/17/04 05:16 AM
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England
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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Forgive my suspicion; I am sure that being a military man you will understand.

I noticed in your introduction that you have been in the miltary since 1998 - that's 6 years now. It seems strange you have not already discovered this information in that time.

Also I have noticed that you have trouble with spelling and grammar - this strikes me as odd for someone who has attained the rank of SGT and must have some official paperwork on a fairly regular basis.

Just something that struck me. That's all.


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #35543
04/17/04 11:59 AM
04/17/04 11:59 AM
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Also I have noticed that you have trouble with spelling and grammar - this strikes me as odd for someone who has attained the rank of SGT and must have some official paperwork on a fairly regular basis.

One of the differences between the US and British militaries, it seems.


Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue
Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #35544
04/17/04 04:23 PM
04/17/04 04:23 PM

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Read the previous reply for info on Grammer! As for the rest, I have been busy with my education and the education of my soldiers, also please notice that I am assigned to a Military Police Battalion- and they don't play. Military Police uphold the standard and all that crap! I'm a busy guy and have a lot of responsibilities, also I hadn't really taken all of the views all that seriously until these past few years and as you can well imagine I didn't think they would go over all that well in the military; and believe me I am not trying to advertise, but I have seen alot of messed up crap in the military happen to a lot of decent people. I still believe in the military and all it stands for; just sometimes- it doesn't stand for the soldier.

Last edited by hallrl; 04/17/04 04:26 PM.
Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism #35545
04/17/04 04:37 PM
04/17/04 04:37 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,508
North Las Vegas, NV
Volkodlak Offline
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Here's a question, Sergeant: why?

Just for the record, I'm active duty Air Force and I hardly make it a secret that I'm a Satanist--however, I don't wear a flashing neon banner displaying my chosen religion either. But, much like CaesarsGhost, my dog tags also say "Satanist".

I'm just curious as to why you need to review what the military's stance is on Satanism. Is there a problem of some sort?

BY THE WAY- IF YOU ARE PARANOID [Re: Drake_Bamboozle] #35546
04/17/04 04:38 PM
04/17/04 04:38 PM

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Yes I have been slow to accept the way- officially. Don't shoot!!!!!
Just for the hell of it- look up DA-Pam 165-13 or "authorized religeons in the US Army". See if you don't get any further than I did. And by the way, quotes or exerts from regulations do me no good. What do you have to lose? Yes I read what is posted on the CoS website- but it's outdated, can't help me, can you?

Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Caesar] #35547
04/17/04 04:41 PM
04/17/04 04:41 PM
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,508
North Las Vegas, NV
Volkodlak Offline
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Quote:

though once you see "the list", you'll be surprised to see what specifically is on that list




You're not kidding! Just the Native American religions take up at least twenty slots on the "official" list!

Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Volkodlak] #35548
04/17/04 04:42 PM
04/17/04 04:42 PM

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No Problem actually, I just want to be ready if asked and also I am not the Equal Opportunity Guy; but I want to be able to help my soldiers should the problem ever arise. I am not asking for the world here, I am just trying to find a regulation which does exist- yet it seems to be a ghost, mostly I want to see what it says out of curiosity becuase I have read quotes from it supposedly but cannot find the actual regulation.

Last edited by hallrl; 04/17/04 04:50 PM.
Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism #35549
04/17/04 04:53 PM
04/17/04 04:53 PM
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 10,793
England
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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>>I have been busy with my education<<

Which obviously hasn't included spelling and grammar

Ok, here's my reasoning:

In WWII there used to be this very pertinent maxim - "careless talk costs lives" which was placed on warning posters which were then hung about all over the country as a reminder to everyone.

The premise of this was that one has to be careful in speaking to strangers, however seemingly innocuous it may seem. A man at the bus stop, a woman in a bar, a couple on a train. Anyone could be an enemy.

It is a fact that some of those people who failed to heed this warning did cost others their lives.


Here, with the internet is an even greater risk.

Let us say a stranger came on here; as you have done, and asked the questions such as you have asked (a seemingly innocent enough place and seemingly innocent enough questions).

Of course, some of the military personel can relate to your dilemma - they have been there too - so they respond and ultimately "friendships" can be forged, more meaningful contact evolved over time.

Again, we have a situation where a seemingly innocuous friendship could quite easily not be all that it appears.

Not everyone is who they claim. Any contact could become a foothold for an enemy.

We are at war. We have men and women in a warzone.

Careless talk costs lives.

Does this sound far-fetched? Do you think it stupid?

I would have thought it was obvious to any member of the Military Police.


Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.
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