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#35550 - 04/17/04 12:02 PM the religion of the Founders [Re: DeSol]
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
No, it was not. Satanism didn't exist then.

My own theory is that the religion which most closely resembles the ideals and concepts of the Constitution and Bill of Rights is Protestant. There are varying opinions. We already know about the Freemason connection. We know that most of the Founders were Protestant, or as it has been pointed out to me, other denominations of Protestant. We also know that none of them were right-wing evangelical Christians, such as those who now claim that the USA was founded on Christianity.

So far, I don't know any Satanists who believe in sacred geometry with the single exception of the trapezoid. I hardly think that the Pentagon is a reference to any of LaVey's principles. LaVey invented his own meanings for the pentagram/baphomet of Levi and earlier irrelevant sources. "In God We Trust" and the eye at the top of the pyramid is an Egyptian/Freemason reference to my knowledge to a monotheistic God, i.e., Akhenaton, which certainly isn't the anti-theism of Satanists.

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#35551 - 04/17/04 12:06 PM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Look here sissy. I don't care what you think. All I am asking for is can you help me fing DA PAM 165-13? Look for it yourself before you show me how worthless you are. I don't give a shit if you are a CoS member becuase you may have a card- but you don't live it! If you are not willing to help me look for a regulation then don't waste my time!

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#35552 - 04/17/04 12:06 PM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Mike_Hargis Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/29/04
Posts: 825
Loc: Bensalem, PA (Philly 'burbs)
Yes, Satanism is an officially recognized religion in the Army...there used to be a Satanic chaplain! He was a Colonel. I saw him on a Geraldo special on Satanism back in '88 - '90 sometime. I had a problem with my squad leader when I converted my religious preference. He tried to bar me from putting it on my dog tags until our EO NCO told him it was legit & he couldn't stop me. He still asked me not to wear those tags when I jumped...of course, I wore them anyway! Hope this sheds some light on the subject for you.
_________________________
Love completely those who deserve your love, & hate just as completely those who deserve your hatred! Hail Satan! Mike Hargis

www.myspace.com/satanist_in_pa
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#35553 - 04/17/04 12:13 PM Thanks! [Re: Mike_Hargis]
Anonymous
Unregistered


This is great and it's what I need- almost. Do you have a copy of the regulation? It is not on the chaplains page as can well be expected I suppose, but it's not on AKO (Army Knowledge Onnline) either.

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#35554 - 04/17/04 01:14 PM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
If asked just lie. Lying to a superior is illegal but not when it comes to your religion. Sure it is illegal for them to harass you based on religion but they can find other ways of getting under your skin.

You may never find that regulation. So it all boils down to you deciding to remain covert or overt.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#35555 - 04/17/04 01:27 PM Lack of Respect
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
So if you ever find this regulation are you going to march around on the parade deck and loudly shout "I am a Satanist!"? Or are you going to keep quiet. If the later than do you really need that regulation? A good trait I learned while in the Marines was when to keep my mouth shut and when to speak up.

What if you never find that regulation? Does it really matter? Do you need to spend so much energy trying to uncover it? What would be the beneficial results if you did?

Also you did not need to be so rude to Mr. UVRay. He asked in a respectful manner and so you should do the same even if you disagree.


Edited by Discipline (04/17/04 01:28 PM)
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#35556 - 04/17/04 07:22 PM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10562
Loc: England
You have proved what I suspected to be true.

By your behaviour it is apparent that you are no ranked serviceman.

In fact not a serviceman at all. You display far too much immaturity to even be a soldier, let alone a SGT in the military police.

Proving what I was saying all along.
_________________________
"Spiral Out: a bleak, page-turning, unforgettable read. Existentialism at its most hardcore" - www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#35557 - 04/17/04 07:25 PM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
RustySpring Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1109
I believe that (once again) you've read the situation accurately, Mr. UVRAY.

This man, whoever he is, has absolutely no respect for anyone. He has come here demanding answers to his questions. He is a waste of time and should not be given the time of day.

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#35558 - 04/17/04 07:44 PM Re: BY THE WAY- IF YOU ARE PARANOID
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10562
Loc: England
Well, I am aware of military regulations and viewpoints with regards to Satanism and any other religion whilst serving in the forces.

There are things that become apparent.

Especially after you have served for six years, as YOU claim to have done.

There is no doubt in my mind, as there wasn't from the outset, that YOU are NOT a military man.

You are a liar. And your reaction to me, especially in view of the fact that I courteously explained my reasons, proves that I was correct in my assessment.

You are a rude and insolent teenager. Nothing more.
_________________________
"Spiral Out: a bleak, page-turning, unforgettable read. Existentialism at its most hardcore" - www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#35559 - 04/17/04 08:34 PM How to Order DA PAM 165-13
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
You can order it here, it looks like.

http://www.military-info.com/mphoto/Manuallist/miscarmy.htm

It took me about 5 seconds typing it into Google and hitting "search".

I hope anyone who wasted their time here feels really fucking cool.


Edited by Keryx (04/17/04 08:34 PM)
_________________________
Do what thy manhood bids thee do, from none but self expect applause; He noblest lives and noblest dies who makes and keeps his self-made laws. -Sir Richard Francis Burton

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#35560 - 04/18/04 03:04 AM Re: Lack of Respect [Re: Discipline]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I apoogize, I came back from a friend's wedding party and got irked when I read his post.
No I don't plan on shouting it out, I read on the CoS web page it was authorized but wanted to check it out myself , that's all.

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#35561 - 04/18/04 03:11 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I apoligize for getting pissed of on your post, I asked a simple question on how to find a regulation that's all.
Yes I am in fact in the military, no I am NOT a Military Police, I am assigned to thier Battalion. I did find the information I was looking for; Satanism is not recognized in the Military, the info I was trying to confirm was posted on the CoS web page somewhere or something I had googled and it referred to the military regulation I was looking for. The info was either Bogus or outdated.

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#35562 - 04/18/04 03:38 AM Thanks Knocko [Re: Knocko]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Wow, I wish I had read this one sooner. It was as I had expected no longer official Army doctorine which explains why I was having such a hard time finding it even though I could find dozens of references to it.
Thanks! The reason I was looking for it was:
1. I had read somewhere it was authorized.
2. I was approached by a soldier who asked me about Satanism and also about Masonry (no I am not a Mason) both of which it seems, are not authorized in the Army. The soldier has no idea what my beliefs are but he approached me because I am his Team Leader- of course I was unable to answer the Satanic question, the Masonic one I could because MY supervisor is a Mason and I asked him straight out if it was authorized, which I had always heard it was not. His response was not it was not authorized even though he proudly wears his ring and watch (as do many others) and he acknowledged if someone was to call him out on it he would be screwed.
The best I was able to do for the soldier was to refer him to the Equal Opportunity Rep. and as it turns out the EO Rep was wrong as well. Fortunately he is a good friend of mine and has unasual views as well (he is a Kabbalist, sp?) and keeps his thoughts, and the thoughts of others to himself.

Thanks again, this has been a big help

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#35563 - 04/18/04 03:48 AM Re: How to Order DA PAM 165-13 [Re: Captn_Thatch]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I sent an email to CoS and here is the response I got:

The Department of the Army has changed things recently, under the Bush administration, and the previous chaplain’s handbook which listed many alternative religions has been allowed to go out of print, leaving things more nebulous.

They had moved to presenting a web site which updated the manual, and it included links to our site. However, that now is also gone.

Can you help ,me to download DA PAM 165-13? that's all I'm asking for.


If you visit our Sources page, you will find a link to the older version of the manual.

Sources at www.churchofsatan.com.

Administration
Church of Satan
www.churchofsatan.com


On 4/17/04 1:28 PM, "robert hall" wrote:


Sorry I hate to bother you, I have tried to search for the answer myself on the Internet and I have asked many Non Commisioned Officers in the Army. I have found that regulation DA PAM 165-13 covers religeons authorized or recognized by the military and have found some reference on the CoS webpage as well, unfortunately the web page is way outdated and as can be imagined, although there is reference to the regulation- it is not available off the internet. Not even off the Chaplain's home page- go figure!
I have tried to ask on the ask Satan web page and some of the members have tried to be helpfull but unfortunately were not better off than me at finding the answer.

That is the end of the email

It seems Knocko was correct and that explains why I have been unable to download it.

Also some of this was a waste of time and I am at least partyly (or mostly) to blame, I guess I shouldn't have been reading the post responses after drinking. Thanks.
This has answered my question at least so it wasn't a total waste of time.

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#35564 - 04/18/04 03:28 PM Re: Thanks Knocko
Knocko Offline


Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 864
Loc: Michigan - Troll Country
I'm glad that I could (finally) help. I just wish it would have helped before things got out of hand. Next time I CAP and BOLD my Subject header so people look there. I was a Satanist when I joined the Navy and I had to deal with many a problem; I was heavily scrutinized and I followed all the proper procedures. I did as much research as I could and I was eventually accepted, but only because my command officers wrote me off as a Wiccan (which for some reason they can accept).
_________________________
"When the long winter nights come on and the wolves follow their meat into the lower valleys, he may be seen running at the head of the pack through the pale moonlight or glimmering borealis, leaping gigantic above his fellows, his great throat a-bellow as he sings a song of the younger world, which is the song of the pack. "Old longings nomadic leap, Chafing at custom's chain: Again from its brumal sleep Wakens the ferine strain."" -Jack London, The Call of the Wild

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