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#35535 - 04/16/04 07:59 AM Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Anonymous
Unregistered


I am a SGT in the US Army and am trying to download a copy of DA PAM 165-13 which covers recognizzed religeons in the military with no sucess. I have been able to find parts of it but I need the entire regulation, ideally in PDF format. Of course the Chaplains home page and AKO is less worthless on this matter. Does anyone have this regulation?

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#35536 - 04/16/04 10:46 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
L. Kabron Offline


Registered: 02/07/02
Posts: 1505
Loc: Massachusetts
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#35537 - 04/16/04 11:01 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Caesar Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 2381
As of now, "Satanism" is not specifically on the list of religions, but you can claim "Other Religion" (though once you see "the list", you'll be surprised to see what specifically is on that list). However, as you know, you can have your own set of dog tags made with "Satanist" on them (as I have), and even if they are inspected, no one is usually the wiser, and won't force you to change it to "Other Religion" (unless they have "the list").

When I was just recently in Kuwait, as part of my outprocessing from Iraq, I was privy to "the list" because I tried to slyly get them to make me an extra set of what I already owned (i.e. "Satanist"), but there was a double take, and they went up the local chain, who then produced "the list" and they said if I wanted a new set made, it would have to be "Other Religion" (I also attempted this when officially changing my records about 6 months prior in Iraq, but again, no dice).

This could be fought for, but until directed by Central, I would not dare try. I am sure they are well aware of these facts.
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#35538 - 04/16/04 11:04 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Knocko Offline


Registered: 12/05/02
Posts: 864
Loc: Michigan - Troll Country
This may be of some use.
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#35539 - 04/16/04 01:52 PM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
III Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/04/04
Posts: 236
I was of the impression that SATANISM is somewhat respected in the military mabye not always in recognition but none the less respected. I have been told that SATANISM is on the LIST when I was in boot camp. If this LIST has changed you would surely not be punished just for your taste and preferences, unless it caused a pattern of disturbances amongst others or violated the HATE GROUP POLICY . To get a copy of the LIST go to the nearest LEAGAL OFFICE where they deal with court martial. Ask politely they have rules and regulations up the anus and they would probably be more than delighted to share their knowledge with you maybe even print it out.

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#35540 - 04/16/04 02:45 PM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: III]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
I would suggest keeping Satanism on the down low while in the military. Even if it is written somewhere that Satanism is an accepted religion it might not be to your surperiors. You could raise the "Hate" or "discrimination" flag but those in the higher ranks do have pull. Others will take the side of the old crusty Master Sergeant who has 20 years under his belt and not some two year wet nosed PFC (I know you are a Sergeant but even a six year Sergeant does not have as much pull as a 12 year or more SNCO). Don't burn any bridges is what I am basically saying.

I kept my Satanism private while in the Marines and I did just fine. There was no reason for them to know and I saw no benefit to be opened about it.


Edited by Discipline (04/17/04 02:07 AM)
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#35541 - 04/16/04 09:37 PM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: III]
DeSol Offline


Registered: 04/02/04
Posts: 81
Loc: 45 degrees N latitude
This country was built on Satanism, wasn't it? The Pentagon... "In god we trust" on our money? I'm sure there's other theories...
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#35542 - 04/17/04 12:16 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10562
Loc: England
Forgive my suspicion; I am sure that being a military man you will understand.

I noticed in your introduction that you have been in the miltary since 1998 - that's 6 years now. It seems strange you have not already discovered this information in that time.

Also I have noticed that you have trouble with spelling and grammar - this strikes me as odd for someone who has attained the rank of SGT and must have some official paperwork on a fairly regular basis.

Just something that struck me. That's all.
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#35543 - 04/17/04 06:59 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6345
Also I have noticed that you have trouble with spelling and grammar - this strikes me as odd for someone who has attained the rank of SGT and must have some official paperwork on a fairly regular basis.

One of the differences between the US and British militaries, it seems.
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#35544 - 04/17/04 11:23 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Read the previous reply for info on Grammer! As for the rest, I have been busy with my education and the education of my soldiers, also please notice that I am assigned to a Military Police Battalion- and they don't play. Military Police uphold the standard and all that crap! I'm a busy guy and have a lot of responsibilities, also I hadn't really taken all of the views all that seriously until these past few years and as you can well imagine I didn't think they would go over all that well in the military; and believe me I am not trying to advertise, but I have seen alot of messed up crap in the military happen to a lot of decent people. I still believe in the military and all it stands for; just sometimes- it doesn't stand for the soldier.


Edited by hallrl (04/17/04 11:26 AM)

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#35545 - 04/17/04 11:37 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Volkodlak Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: North Las Vegas, NV
Here's a question, Sergeant: why?

Just for the record, I'm active duty Air Force and I hardly make it a secret that I'm a Satanist--however, I don't wear a flashing neon banner displaying my chosen religion either. But, much like CaesarsGhost, my dog tags also say "Satanist".

I'm just curious as to why you need to review what the military's stance is on Satanism. Is there a problem of some sort?

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#35546 - 04/17/04 11:38 AM BY THE WAY- IF YOU ARE PARANOID [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Yes I have been slow to accept the way- officially. Don't shoot!!!!!
Just for the hell of it- look up DA-Pam 165-13 or "authorized religeons in the US Army". See if you don't get any further than I did. And by the way, quotes or exerts from regulations do me no good. What do you have to lose? Yes I read what is posted on the CoS website- but it's outdated, can't help me, can you?

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#35547 - 04/17/04 11:41 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Caesar]
Volkodlak Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/26/02
Posts: 1508
Loc: North Las Vegas, NV
Quote:

though once you see "the list", you'll be surprised to see what specifically is on that list




You're not kidding! Just the Native American religions take up at least twenty slots on the "official" list!

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#35548 - 04/17/04 11:42 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism [Re: Volkodlak]
Anonymous
Unregistered


No Problem actually, I just want to be ready if asked and also I am not the Equal Opportunity Guy; but I want to be able to help my soldiers should the problem ever arise. I am not asking for the world here, I am just trying to find a regulation which does exist- yet it seems to be a ghost, mostly I want to see what it says out of curiosity becuase I have read quotes from it supposedly but cannot find the actual regulation.


Edited by hallrl (04/17/04 11:50 AM)

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#35549 - 04/17/04 11:53 AM Re: Looking for Military regulations regarding Satanism
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10562
Loc: England
>>I have been busy with my education<<

Which obviously hasn't included spelling and grammar

Ok, here's my reasoning:

In WWII there used to be this very pertinent maxim - "careless talk costs lives" which was placed on warning posters which were then hung about all over the country as a reminder to everyone.

The premise of this was that one has to be careful in speaking to strangers, however seemingly innocuous it may seem. A man at the bus stop, a woman in a bar, a couple on a train. Anyone could be an enemy.

It is a fact that some of those people who failed to heed this warning did cost others their lives.


Here, with the internet is an even greater risk.

Let us say a stranger came on here; as you have done, and asked the questions such as you have asked (a seemingly innocent enough place and seemingly innocent enough questions).

Of course, some of the military personel can relate to your dilemma - they have been there too - so they respond and ultimately "friendships" can be forged, more meaningful contact evolved over time.

Again, we have a situation where a seemingly innocuous friendship could quite easily not be all that it appears.

Not everyone is who they claim. Any contact could become a foothold for an enemy.

We are at war. We have men and women in a warzone.

Careless talk costs lives.

Does this sound far-fetched? Do you think it stupid?

I would have thought it was obvious to any member of the Military Police.
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