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#35625 - 04/16/04 06:47 PM Values and individualism
TheRaven Offline



Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 58
Loc: Usa, Pa
Something came to mind the other day. I realize how the monkeys (the herd) are quick to tell another indivual that their priorities are screwed up just because their values is not the same as theirs. They believe everyone's values should be the same.

Here is an example that I experienced myself. A few months ago my goal was when I got some money, that the first thing that I am going to do is get my girlfriend's daughter a birthday gift and jion the CoS. Then my mother wanted to borrow money again (never payed me back the ton of money that she already owes). Then I had to here from other realitives that my mother comes first before anyone or anything. Listening to this Bs for 4 hours. Then after I let them put that guilt trip, then another relative and an authoritiy figure told me that my priorities are wrong. The other relative said also that my mother comes first and the authority figure told me that I should use the money for me ,such as buying a vcr and a dvd instead of spending money on my girlfriend's daughter.

What these human's don't understand is that getting something for my girlfriend's daughter and joining the CoS is what I value and is for my selfish healthy well being.

Therefore since we are all individuals, then no one can tell another individual that his or her value's or priorities is wrong. Am I correct in making this assumption?
_________________________
"The power of certainty is without limits" - Madonna
"Look inside yourself with honesty and you shall find God, look outside your self for god, and you shall find a false god." - TheRaven
We are Watching

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#35626 - 04/16/04 07:17 PM Re: Values and individualism [Re: TheRaven]
SDM Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/20/01
Posts: 449
Then my mother wanted to borrow money again (never payed me back the ton of money that she already owes).

What are you getting from your mother in return? You say that she does not pay you back. . . Is she feeding you or putting a roof over your head? If she is doing one or both of these things, consider that money for rent and stop complaining. If she is not doing anything for you, then why are you handing her over more dough?? Next time she asks, give her a newspaper & highlighter and hit the door. Believe me, a mooching relative can be a lifelong headache and it's better to stop it before it even starts.

The other relative said also that my mother comes first and the authority figure told me that I should use the money for me ,such as buying a vcr and a dvd instead of spending money on my girlfriend's daughter.

Authority figure? I'm confused - how old are you? You mentioned in another post at one time being involved in the PI scene and you are currently dating a woman old enough to have a daughter, yet you are still worried about your own authority figures?

It's your money, and you are in control of it. Other people can tell you how to spend it until the sun goes down, but it is ultimately YOUR choice where it goes.

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#35627 - 04/16/04 07:22 PM Re: Values and individualism [Re: TheRaven]
Wonka Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 638
Loc: The City of Red Lights
Yes, our species possess the ability to set our own values and priorities.

If you don't mind, I would like to offer some personal advice: Downplay how much "free money" you have rolling around to everyone who is concerned about your finances (within legal bounds, of course). That discourages freeloading/theft.
_________________________
Believe Nothing. Test Everything.

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#35628 - 04/16/04 09:01 PM Re: Values and individualism [Re: TheRaven]
Smokey_DeVille Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/26/02
Posts: 595
Loc: Chicago
The Satanist is a god, and a god answers to no one.

Hail Satan!
L_9
_________________________
Church of Satan

[url=http://www.smokeydeville.com [/url]


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#35629 - 04/17/04 09:34 AM Re: Values and individualism [Re: TheRaven]
Citizen_Squish Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/27/02
Posts: 1422
Loc: California
Quote:

Then after I let them put that guilt trip, then another relative and an authoritiy figure told me that my priorities are wrong




If you felt guilty, then perhaps your priorities or actions are not aligned with your values. This would not make them wrong so much as it would make them... counterproductive.

Quote:

Therefore since we are all individuals, then no one can tell another individual that his or her value's or priorities is wrong. Am I correct in making this assumption?




Your final question ignores the concluding statement that precedes it.
_________________________
If people had wings, they would die on their backs, buzzing around in little circles.
-Uncle Fester, "Silent Death"

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#35630 - 04/18/04 02:00 AM Re: Values and individualism [Re: TheRaven]
C_D_McKinna Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/03/02
Posts: 777
Loc: San Diego, CA
Therefore since we are all individuals, then no one can tell another individual that his or her value's or priorities is wrong.

Wrong and right are a matter of perspective.

Whenever another gives me advice, I ask myself two things: what thier reasons are for giving such advice, and should they be giving it in the first place.

Are they trying to gain something? Do they believe they speak from a "higher moral authority?" Do they genuinely care about my well being?

Do they follow thier own advice? Do they know what they are talking about?

Once the advising parties motivations are clear, then the weight of thier advice becomes clear as well.

Always keep in mind that people like to hear themselves talk. They may have god intentions, but they often have little right to open thier mouths.
_________________________
Believe Nothing, Test Everything

"Well done is better than well said"

- Benjamin Franklin

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#35631 - 04/18/04 04:29 AM Re: Values and individualism [Re: TheRaven]
Anonymous
Unregistered


People are always going to inherently try to gain something from you whenever they give you their "advice" as to what your actions should do. If someone in your family really cares so much about your mother having that money then they can give it to her or go get a job if need be to get it to her. Sometimes it's not even that people want to gain anything of physical value from you, but only to boost their own egos by having manipulated you and delayed something that was going to make you happy. Just as many people are sadists as masocists if you ask me, it's just not always so easy to see. To truely be a Satanist you have to put your own personal feelings above anyone else's, you are your own god remember?

With that said you have to keep in mind that any time you come onto this board for "advice" to take everything someone says to you with a grain of salt to some degree at least. Just read over what everyone says, get a general impression, and then rethink whatever your issue is with this possible new wisdom falling into place where it may. If you start to listen to what others say about you and your situations then you'll simply become another follower. I'm sure that part of the reason you added this thread was so that you could have someone tell you to tell her to fuck off so you can spend your money on whatever you wish. But that choice is for you to make and you only, if I got to chose what you did with that money I'd tell you my address to send it to. Often on this board if you say anything that others don't find "Satanic enough" they will bash you and point out how you aren't good enough to be part of the Alien Elite. Then the odds are that they'll turn off the computer and rush out the door to go to this month's grotto meeting so that they can be around others just like them so that they know they aren't alone.

The herd needs others around them to help form their ideas and opinions. Other members of the herd do have their priorities out of order when they don't align with the rest of the pack; the reason is because then they aren't thinking like the rest of the group and start to alienate themselves from it. The only time your priorities will be screwed up are if 1. you are failing in your responcibilites or 2. you are making sure to gain acceptance from your so-called "peers." Sheeple are not peers and you should always trust your own feelings over theirs and just about anyone else's.

I understand what you ment with your post but you have to realize that the way they chose to live their lives and the goals they set in their lives are things that people who lead and don't follow can never properly understand. It seems that part of you still is looking for acceptance, if so you need to work on that. Indulge yourself, put a smile on that little girl's face, and put that crimson card inside of your wallet. But ask yourself why it is that you wish to join the CoS, if you are simply looking to get the addresses of fellow members then you're walking into a herd of those who claim to be above the herd and you do have your priorities messed up. If you wish to help a group you believe in and gain another, and amazing, tool for your personal evolution then by all means send out that letter first chance you get.

DatheR

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#35632 - 04/18/04 05:13 AM Re: Values and individualism [Re: TheRaven]
Anonymous
Unregistered


First of all it sounds to me like you need to let your family know your boundaries.
Sitting you down for 4 hours (even if you are exagerating) and putting a guilt trip on
you is probably and hopefully overstepping them.
In my world people know that I do not appreciate guilt trips. Anybody doing this knows
that any conversation is over as soon as they try.
Never ever respond to a guilt trip. Never ever continue a conversation once guilt is on
the table.
Boundaries are what they are: boundaries. Seeing anybody overstepping yours counts as an
act of agression towards you.
A guilt trip is, by definition, designed to make you feel bad. Compare it to putting a
curse on you. Do not let anybody curse you.

Once you are certain that your environment knows and respects your boundaries you can
listen to their advice. Do just this. Listen. If anybody comes up to you and starts
explaining that what you are doing or intending to do is wrong, just listen. This is
assuming you respect them of course. After they are done talking, ask questions on the
parts that are unclear to you. Once you understand their viewpoint thank them for their
advice. Tell them you will think about it and that you will let them know your decision
in a couple of days/hours. Rethink your decision. We are Gods but we sometimes make
mistakes. Reevaluate your grounds for deciding, your values, your priorities etc. If you
decide that you are right, stick to it. Inform your advice givers that you value their
opinion and (not 'but') that you are sticking to your decision. If you decide that you
are wrong, thank them for enlightining you and inform them of your changed decision.
Do just that: inform them. Do not reopen any discussion if there is no new information.
This cuts through hours of talking. If they try to reopen the discussion ask if there is
more or new information that both of you have not talked about. If there isn't, then
there is no ground for reevaluation. Tell them to respect your difference in opinion.

> Therefore since we are all individuals, then no one can tell another individual that
his or her value's or priorities is wrong. Am I correct in making this assumption?

Anybody can tell anybody else that they have other values/priorities than you do. You
can listen to their arguments and decide for yourself who is right.

Doing things this way accomplishes a lot of things. You let the people you respect know
that you value their opinion. You do not fall for the guilt trips. You give yourself the
chance to reevaluate your values and priorities and therefore a chance to learn. You
also are keeping people from abusing your valuable time.

Btw, if they say 'you are wrong' correct their language and say 'you THINK I MIGHT be
wrong'.

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#35633 - 04/18/04 08:07 PM Thank you!
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12409
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:

We are Gods but we sometimes make mistakes.




Your above golden words are so needed by those who wish to understand Satanism.

All too often people learn that Satanists choose themselves as God and then assume that we think we are omnipotent, omniscient and omnipresent.

God is the most important person in your life.

Choose your God carefully. Choose yourself.

And understand that you are not perfect.

You don't need to be.

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#35634 - 04/18/04 09:42 PM Re: Values and individualism
TheRaven Offline



Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 58
Loc: Usa, Pa
Quote:

A guilt trip is, by definition, designed to make you feel bad. Compare it to putting a
curse on you. Do not let anybody curse you.





I agree, I never thought of it that way. but it makes sense, after that I had a domino effect of unnessary things that followed by letting others cross those boundaries. Thanks Kinma.
_________________________
"The power of certainty is without limits" - Madonna
"Look inside yourself with honesty and you shall find God, look outside your self for god, and you shall find a false god." - TheRaven
We are Watching

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#35635 - 04/18/04 09:49 PM Re: Values and individualism
TheRaven Offline



Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 58
Loc: Usa, Pa
Quote:

It seems that part of you still is looking for acceptance, if so you need to work on that. Indulge yourself, put a smile on that little girl's face, and put that crimson card inside of your wallet. But ask yourself why it is that you wish to join the CoS, if you are simply looking to get the addresses of fellow members then you're walking into a herd of those who claim to be above the herd and you do have your priorities messed up. If you wish to help a group you believe in and gain another, and amazing, tool for your personal evolution then by all means send out that letter first chance you get.





Thanks, that is something I been working on and will continue to work on it. And as far as the reason for joining is as a tool to empower myself. So as soon as I can I'm sending out the already filled application.
_________________________
"The power of certainty is without limits" - Madonna
"Look inside yourself with honesty and you shall find God, look outside your self for god, and you shall find a false god." - TheRaven
We are Watching

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#35636 - 04/18/04 09:52 PM Re: Values and individualism [Re: C_D_McKinna]
TheRaven Offline



Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 58
Loc: Usa, Pa
Quote:

Whenever another gives me advice, I ask myself two things: what thier reasons are for giving such advice, and should they be giving it in the first place.





Nope it was none of their business.
_________________________
"The power of certainty is without limits" - Madonna
"Look inside yourself with honesty and you shall find God, look outside your self for god, and you shall find a false god." - TheRaven
We are Watching

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#35637 - 04/18/04 09:57 PM Re: Values and individualism [Re: Citizen_Squish]
TheRaven Offline



Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 58
Loc: Usa, Pa
Quote:

If you felt guilty, then perhaps your priorities or actions are not aligned with your values. This would not make them wrong so much as it would make them... counterproductive.





Hmm, I just have to look within and stick to what I feel is right, and realize their opinion is just that.
_________________________
"The power of certainty is without limits" - Madonna
"Look inside yourself with honesty and you shall find God, look outside your self for god, and you shall find a false god." - TheRaven
We are Watching

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#35638 - 04/18/04 09:59 PM Re: Values and individualism [Re: Smokey_DeVille]
TheRaven Offline



Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 58
Loc: Usa, Pa
Quote:

The Satanist is a god, and a god answers to no one.






Thanks ,this is something to remember and to also remember as Kinma said that gods are not perfect .
_________________________
"The power of certainty is without limits" - Madonna
"Look inside yourself with honesty and you shall find God, look outside your self for god, and you shall find a false god." - TheRaven
We are Watching

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#35639 - 04/18/04 10:02 PM Re: Values and individualism [Re: SDM]
TheRaven Offline



Registered: 04/10/04
Posts: 58
Loc: Usa, Pa
Quote:

It's your money, and you are in control of it. Other people can tell you how to spend it until the sun goes down, but it is ultimately YOUR choice where it goes.





Thanks for the advice.
_________________________
"The power of certainty is without limits" - Madonna
"Look inside yourself with honesty and you shall find God, look outside your self for god, and you shall find a false god." - TheRaven
We are Watching

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