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#385617 - 06/23/09 05:06 PM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Paul Powers]
Old_Pig Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 3969
Loc: The Deep South
Originally Posted By: Tch0rt
The easiest way to view this is the way the Christians put it "Hell is a life without god" So I'm already in hell and loving it


That's a great way to put it. Can I have your permission to use that quote?
_________________________
You can have peace. Or you can have freedom. Don't ever count on having both at once.
Robert A. Heinlein


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#385645 - 06/24/09 03:28 AM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Old_Pig]
Paul Powers Offline


Registered: 06/22/09
Posts: 28
Loc: Uk
certainly
I take that as a compliment so thank you

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#385650 - 06/24/09 05:21 AM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Paul Powers]
ruraldean Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 227
Loc: England
I'll add my 2p worth, just so there's no doubt. The concept of Heaven came about by following exactly your thought process - if life here is this bad then there HAS to be something better.

This is great news if you are the sort of moribund bastard who just sits around waiting for some sort of improvement. We tend to view life here as all there is and therefore live it to the max.

I suspect we've all asked ourselves the same question at some time, mainly because it is impossible to be an effective opposer without knowing the opposition, but you really have to look at both the evidence and the possibility of Heaven being real. If it's a place where we can bathe in the glory of God non-stop,offering Him nothing but non-stop worship, then what does that say about God?

If, on the other hand, we are there to enjoy ourselves in a state of perpetual bliss for all of eternity (which is quite a long time) then where does my sense of contrast go? Will I be bored? could I choose to be miserable? Being a grumpy old bastard I love days when it all goes tits-up and I have problems to chew on. I've just come back from two weeks holiday where money was no object and alcoholic and gastronomic pleasures reigned. It's always nice to get back to normal though.

And what evidence for Heaven is there? Who can give any testament except the living?

To acknowledge the possibility of Heaven you must accept the plausibility of a God.

We don't.
_________________________
Hail Satan!

"The pipe draws wisdom from the lips of the philosopher, and shuts up the mouth of the foolish; it generates a style of conversation, contemplative, thoughtful, benevolent, and unaffected..."

-William Makepeace Thackeray, from The Social Pipe
http://ruraldean.wordpress.com

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#385654 - 06/24/09 06:28 AM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: TheDegenerate]
Rodim Offline


Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 239
"Blasphemy! God works through the priesthood and the Vatican church, isn't that enough evidence?" <- Christianities only "solid" evidence.

This subject is indeed tired and depleted.
_________________________
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.

-Friedrich Nietzsche

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.

-Horace Walpole

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#385655 - 06/24/09 06:31 AM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: ruraldean]
MissMina1556 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 1386
Loc: USA
Quote:
I've just come back from two weeks holiday where money was no object and alcoholic and gastronomic pleasures reigned.


Is that not a description of "heaven"? smile I think it is for me!
_________________________
YOU ARE DEEP, DARK AND LOVELY.


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#385705 - 06/24/09 06:05 PM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: MissMina1556]
Carbon-Dioxide Offline


Registered: 09/12/08
Posts: 22
I think Heaven, is a kind of hope certain people would like to adopt. Cause although Satanists do not believe in this stuff, someone who does, would be a really helpful way to build hope when suffering or facing a permanent problem.

In fact, if someone is quite sick and will end up in bed or into jail for his end of his life, Heaven would be a great help for him to keep living. Right?

Heaven reminds me of placebo. Once, me and some others made a joke to our friend. We gave him some kind ( I don't remember exactly) of white herbal tea and we told him it is cocaine. He ever abused from drugs, so basically, he couldn't know the difference between cocaine and this herbal tea. Thus, he was assuming to feel the effect when taking it. When he took it, without even realizing, his behavior was really strange and was acting as if he really took cocaine. We laughed cause we knew it wasn't cociane but it was white herbal tea. My friend is a psychologist and this technique is usually used to check whether the client is really suffering of a problem or not. The client would be given a "fake" medicine. Sometimes, clients would go to my friend and say "thanks, the medicine you gave me was helpful". He realizes that therefore, the client didn't really suffered in anything, his problem was in his mind.

Let's say we use Heaven as a placebo. Wouldn't that then be a good idea?

To keep on the subject, I did enjoy reading most of the comments but however, there was one thing I couldn't really understand. Most of the comments showed Heaven as bullshit. But no comment really proven how/why Heaven is fantasy. In my opinion, no living human can really say whether Heaven is true or not so it will remain a mystery till we die. No matter how strong the argument is.

Also, I would like to point something else. If someone is going to die within next couple of hours. Would it be painfully knowing there is no God, no Heaven and nothing left?

Many people that I had experienced, laughed at Christians and people believing in another life. But I noticed that at the end of their life, Christians were more confidential and fearless for death. They didn't even worry that they are going to die.

When as Satanist is at his end of his life, what thoughts would he have during his last moments?

Anyway, thanks for reading my comment smile
_________________________
The strong rule the weak, but the cunning rule over all.

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#385706 - 06/24/09 06:20 PM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Umbra_Euri Offline


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 57
Loc: Pennsylvania
I agree with you carbon, no one can truly say whether or not heaven, or anything like it, exists or not.

However, seeing as there is little to no proof of the existence of an afterlife, most people here on this forum would be inclined to say that it does not exist.

I keep an open mind, since no one knows, regardless of what they think.

I know what you mean about the religious seeming to not fear death.

But is it better to make up a nice story of how you would like death to be?

Or to realize you have no idea what lies ahead, and embrace the inevitable that way.

I think it is foolish to attempt to say whether or not anything supernatural exists, regardless of proof.

Remember people, lack of proof is not proof of the contrary.
_________________________
These things can never be important to the elephant; they are nothing to him; he cannot shrink his sympathies to the microscopic size of them. Man is to me as the red spider is to the elephant.

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#385713 - 06/24/09 08:19 PM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Umbra_Euri]
casper3912 Offline


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 30
theres nothing to fear in death, theres only something to fear in not living. it doesn't matter to me if theres a heaven that i might go to after i die. i really don't think there is something after death for me. i already found heaven and hell, and they're here on earth.

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#385717 - 06/24/09 08:29 PM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: casper3912]
Umbra_Euri Offline


Registered: 05/24/08
Posts: 57
Loc: Pennsylvania
You contradict yourself. Death is the absence of life. Therefore being afraid of no longer living, is being afraid of being dead and death.

Yes, "heaven and hell" can indeed be found here while living, yet that does not rule out the possibility of there being something after death.

While I am sure no one here believes in an afterlife, there is still the possibility for its existence, however slim you think that possibility may be.
_________________________
These things can never be important to the elephant; they are nothing to him; he cannot shrink his sympathies to the microscopic size of them. Man is to me as the red spider is to the elephant.

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#385721 - 06/24/09 09:33 PM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Umbra_Euri]
Venus Flytrap Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 92
Loc: Brooklyn, NY
In terms of any applied sense of conceptual spirituality, a good orgasm is the closest thing to "God" anyone can get.
as are large amounts of chocolate (same chemical reactions in the brain), therefore He/She who is hungriest and horniest, is most holy! wink

Besides, Christ did in fact exist, his bones were found in a tomb according to a Discovery Channel special. Carbon dated and everything. Christians who saw the program (My mom who is a Born Again being one of them) now say that Jesus' SPIRIT was risen and not his body as the great mother goose book indicates. Thus, continuing to confound My senses as to why when proof is handed to them, they just up and change 2000 years of a specific thought and denying their own religious convictions. Typical, I suppose, it's how they lasted so long.

Christ, I believe was a real man. He was no son God and was nothing more than a hippie who was hung on a Popsicle stick.

*I now crave cookies and cream ice cream with chocolate syrup*
_________________________
"We have such sights to show you" -Hellraiser




On the Undercroft:

http://www.satannet.com/Shadowedlight/

On Facebook

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#385775 - 06/25/09 10:58 AM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Umbra_Euri]
ruraldean Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 227
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Umbra_Euri
You contradict yourself. Death is the absence of life. Therefore being afraid of no longer living, is being afraid of being dead and death.

Yes, "heaven and hell" can indeed be found here while living, yet that does not rule out the possibility of there being something after death.

While I am sure no one here believes in an afterlife, there is still the possibility for its existence, however slim you think that possibility may be.


I didn't read a contradiction in Casper's statement. I read "not living" as representing what the majority of the herd do on a daily basis.
_________________________
Hail Satan!

"The pipe draws wisdom from the lips of the philosopher, and shuts up the mouth of the foolish; it generates a style of conversation, contemplative, thoughtful, benevolent, and unaffected..."

-William Makepeace Thackeray, from The Social Pipe
http://ruraldean.wordpress.com

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#385776 - 06/25/09 11:00 AM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Venus Flytrap]
ruraldean Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/21/08
Posts: 227
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Shadowed Light
In terms of any applied sense of conceptual spirituality, a good orgasm is the closest thing to "God" anyone can get.

Please describe a bad orgasm. crossbones
_________________________
Hail Satan!

"The pipe draws wisdom from the lips of the philosopher, and shuts up the mouth of the foolish; it generates a style of conversation, contemplative, thoughtful, benevolent, and unaffected..."

-William Makepeace Thackeray, from The Social Pipe
http://ruraldean.wordpress.com

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#385777 - 06/25/09 11:09 AM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: casper3912]
Rodim Offline


Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 239
Originally Posted By: casper3912
there's nothing to fear in death, there's only something to fear in not living. it doesn't matter to me if there's a heaven that i might go to after i die. i really don't think there is something after death for me. i already found heaven and hell, and they're here on earth.


Being Naive now, aren't we? The Fear of the Unknown is the oldest question in the history of mankind. Its always better to say "I reserve my judgment" rather than "i think" or "I believe", Just my opinion.


Edited by Rodim (06/25/09 11:10 AM)
_________________________
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.

-Friedrich Nietzsche

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.

-Horace Walpole

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#385784 - 06/25/09 11:46 AM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: Rodim]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
Being Naive now, aren't we? The Fear of the Unknown is the oldest question in the history of mankind. Its always better to say "I reserve my judgment" rather than "i think" or "I believe", Just my opinion.


Do you mean reserve judgment for the possibility of an after life?
_________________________









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#385785 - 06/25/09 11:49 AM Re: Okay. I'll play. [Re: ruraldean]
casper3912 Offline


Registered: 06/24/09
Posts: 30
Originally Posted By: Umbra_Euri
You contradict yourself. Death is the absence of life. Therefore being afraid of no longer living, is being afraid of being dead and death.


Originally Posted By: ruraldean

I didn't read a contradiction in Casper's statement. I read "not living" as representing what the majority of the herd do on a daily basis.


Originally Posted By: Umbra_Euri

Yes, "heaven and hell" can indeed be found here while living, yet that does not rule out the possibility of there being something after death.

While I am sure no one here believes in an afterlife, there is still the possibility for its existence, however slim you think that possibility may be.


lack of proof isn't proof of absence. most people would never wonder how many neutrinos are passing through them at this very moment. technically, i could be walking through a wall or two daily and never know it(i can imagine there being a difference in types of matter, where there is little to none interaction between the two types. No interaction, means they don't really exist to each other). It doesn't do me much good to try to find out if there is something that by principle i won't know in my life time. point being, it might be fun to wonder about, but i'm not going to let the slim possibility of it dictate my life. life is now, i should enjoy it.

if there is a heaven, good(i guess). if theres a hell, the devil will have a new soldier. either way, it doesn't matter to me currently. I tell people i'm not afraid of death and they don't believe me. i admit i'll fight to stay alive and have certain hormonal response in some situations.I have my reasons to stay alive, life after all is the great indulgence.(i love that quote we all know)

Death is like True Love, final.(well, they have resurrected dogs). I think people's own finality scares them, probably an extension of the Animal instinct of self-preservation. however, "living" is different then simply breathing.
In short and for me, its feeling the magic of life within me.


PS. the unknown is exciting, a test and a challenge. I love walking the trail at Night; hair raising on my neck as i pass from the orange glow among the streets into the shadowed woods. Eventually A rabbit might surprise me with its sudden movement as A bright moon casts speckled shadows through the trees. I then hear THE clown's laugh, resonating in the crisp night air with in me. In the moment, i know i am home. the unknown also makes me nervous and at times its scary, but when it comes towards death, i'm confident its not so bad. My only concern is what death would force me to miss or not be able to do.

(the clown is my own personification, i kinda created my own mythology)


Edited by casper3912 (06/25/09 12:07 PM)

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