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#357195 - 10/26/08 09:12 AM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 7000
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

#357196 - 10/26/08 09:13 AM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
AurEum Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/16/07
Posts: 1158
Loc: Australia
Ok, Ok ... I promise I'll play nice. coopdevil
** former username Ealaiontor **

"The truth is I've never fooled anyone. I've let people fool themselves. They didn't bother to find out who and what I was. Instead they would invent a character for me. I wouldn't argue with them." - Marilyn Monroe

#357198 - 10/26/08 09:30 AM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
I have it on My webpage....

Best EVER!
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?

"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.

#357201 - 10/26/08 10:18 AM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Maya Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/21/05
Posts: 1447
Loc: New England
Then I'd rather go to Hell, because no one interesting ever went to Heaven.

#357219 - 10/26/08 11:22 AM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Lust Offline

Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
Originally Posted By: Carbon-Dioxide
In my opinion, I find it a fantasy thing to give hopes for those suffering in this world.

If someone is suffering, and they can find some emotional comfort by accepting the myth of any given religion then so be it. Fantasy is thinking that one can change the persons in question. Nature has already predetermined.

Originally Posted By: Carbon-Dioxide
But I often wonder and come with this question in my mind and without even realising I ask myself "But what if Heaven is real?". I really wish know your opinions and thoughts about it.

It seems that you are at war with yourself. The notion of an afterlife is taught by man to other men, and accepted as reality by believers. Christianity is obsolete, and the package it came in was discarded a long time a go. When all you can see is the carnal, all the "what ifs" are simply unimportant. This is discussed in The Satanic Bible.

Originally Posted By: Carbon-Dioxide
It might sound a simple question but I feel it may have several point of views. Thanks in advance for your time.

It is a simple question to answer if you have read The Satanic Bible. The point of views that you want to discuss are unimportant too. There is nothing to be gained (outside of joking around) in sitting around thinking about what you would do in a mythological place, be it heaven, or hell. Why not create your own? Right here, right now! You can start by reading The Satanic Bible.

�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

#357222 - 10/26/08 11:48 AM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Citizen Jonesy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 1012
Loc: Haysville, KS.
If there is, who cares? It doesn't affect how I live my life HERE AND NOW.

Since such existence cannot be proven or disproven, the point is moot.

If others want to engage in fantasy, by all means, they have my blessing.
Heel Setuon!
I Member, Church Of Satan
The 8FoldPath Network-Currently being updated and expanded!

#357229 - 10/26/08 12:33 PM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Screamer_Pipe Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/17/08
Posts: 186
Loc: In the Shadows
You want to go to the Sky be my guest.There is No heaven.There is no Hell.There is the forces of nature and thats IT.
"It doesnt matter how many glasses of beer a boy can down,but how many blows he can take;it doesnt matter how many nights out he can take,but how many kilometres he can march."

#357232 - 10/26/08 01:05 PM Okay. I'll play. [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 13175
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Let us suppose that there does exist another part of reality that would match up with what is currently referred to as "Heaven", which I shall consider to be a location for the existence of dead people in some sort of afterlife.

I will set aside what kind of "Heaven" we are discussing due to the seemingly limitless versions being promoted throughout history to include the gloomy afterlife of the ancient Greeks, the Summerland of the Spiritualists, the multiple Bardo states of the Tibetan Buddhists, the seven heavens of many shamanistic religions, the Cube City in the sky fundamentalist Christian version (which has always reminded me of the Borg from Star Trek), etc.

Let's just assume that by "Heaven" we mean some kind of afterlife location in which dead people can continue to exist for a certain period of time (finite or infinite, depending on the version chosen).

Now let's suppose that it is scientifically proven to be real. (Please. All of you who are gagging. Get a grip!)

So how would an extended life - an afterlife - affect the suffering and hope of the world's people, as you now ask?

Not at all.


Not at all??!


Please understand that the vast majority of the human population already do believe in an afterlife.

And yet their behavior remains identical with regard to how they live their lives to those fewer in number who do not believe.

You see, your real question I would suggest is how would knowledge of an afterlife change how people would behave.

And beneath that question, you are asking an even deeper question which is how would the ethics of people be different if they possessed a knowledge of an afterlife.

Any set of ethical principles are based on that person's values.

Understand that the only difference between the values of someone who assumes they will live only about 75 years on average (if they stop tailgating cars on the freeways and do not get struck down by disease) and the values of someone who fully expects to continue living after death (Get a grip, people!) is quantity of life not quality of life.

Let's pull away from "Heaven" a moment to make this easier to discuss.

Let us suppose that Aubrey de Grey succeeds with his SENS project and some people become functionally immortal. (Or Michael West at Bio-Time accomplishes the same goal with his approach. Or someone else).

(We substitute extended life on earth for an extended life after death in "Heaven").

Now exactly how will the reality of knowing that you could extend your life as an unending youthful, vigorous human being affect your "suffering in this world"?

Well if your fear of death is your primary source of your "suffering" then having a likely stay of execution would have a very profound and powerful effect on you.

But the simple fact of the matter is that most people do not "suffer" because they fear death. They value death. The often view death as an escape hatch from other "suffering" such as having to work at a job, having physical ailments, having a lousy love life, irritating in-laws or neighbors, and overall seeing life as a zero sum game that they are always losing.

You can personally check this out to your heart's content by simply asking people a question: "If you could physically live forever, healthy and youthful, would you want to?"

If you ask this question I assure you that over 99% of the people you ask will tell you "NO!"

Check it for yourself.

Then think about what this means.

In my humble opinion it simply points to the fact that most people hate their lives.

Another simple test of this is to stand on a bridge over a busy freeway on Monday morning during rush hour. Count the number of happy, smiling faces you see ...if you see any at all.

So if an extended life were offered to these people I would suggest that at this point in history most of them would turn it down.

Now back to "Heaven".

If "Heaven" is a place where you can extend your life, obviously most people wouldn't really want it anyway unless it was radically different in a positive way from their lives right now.

And here is the stinger.

They do not have the slightest idea as to how it would really need to be different except to say that it would need to be without the problems they have.

They cannot tell you what they want that is different.

They can only tell you what they want to avoid.

They want to avoid working hard, feeling lousy, being lonely, having irritating people around them, on and on.

So to these poor sick people, "Heaven" is the absence of what they do not like - but damned if they know what they do want.

Well, I'll tell you what they want.

In a word.


They want lasting happiness.

But they do not believe that that is possible!

If you doubt me try to find the stories, the plays, the films that depict lasting happiness for the characters in them.

Shakespeare's comedies are where everyone gets married at the end of the play.

Shakespeare's tragedies are where everyone dies after they get married! wink

In fairy tales and ghost stories the third wish is for death.

The examples are endless, historical and cross-cultural.

But the key to happiness is to choose to be happy.

That's it.

Notice what you like and indulge yourself.

If worry stops you from happiness then do something about it if you can and then indulge yourself in what you do like.

Create the habit of happiness.

Then you can stop worrying about "Heaven" and have a Hell of good time whether there is an afterlife or not.

Just my opinion.

#357233 - 10/26/08 01:07 PM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
"If in the Spring, she whom I love so well
Meet me by some green bank - the truth I tell -
Bringing my thirsty soul a cup of wine,
I want no better Heaven, nor fear a Hell.

The Slaves of Intellect in talk persist;
Die, arguing does this or that exist;
Fools eat dry raisins 'til their souls become
Sour grapes; but wise men on New Wine insist."

(Talbot versing Heron-Allen's literal translation of Khayym's quatrains.)

Edited by Dale Cooper (10/26/08 01:20 PM)
Edit Reason: relevant addition.
~ Mr. Obsidian (JP)


Flesh and Bones

For those who believe in God, most of the big questions are answered. But for those of us who can't readily accept the God formula, the big answers don't remain stone-written. We adjust to new conditions and discoveries. We are pliable. Love need not be a command nor faith a dictum. I am my own god. We are here to unlearn the teachings of the church, state, and our educational system. We are here to drink beer. We are here to kill war. We are here to laugh at the odds and live our lives so well that Death will tremble to take us.
~ Charles Bukowski

#357234 - 10/26/08 01:40 PM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Unknown Offline

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
If death is the only way to verify this answer then you can count me out.

#357245 - 10/26/08 03:09 PM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2215
Heaven is real because I've been there. coopdevil

That's right. I went there and there was this dude standin' by the gate with pearls all on that shit. He asked me if I had the players VIP card so I gave it to him.

He let me in and there were all these fine ass bitches playing harps and shit. There were all in sexy white lingerie. Man they were BAD! All complexions and sizes. I was like "DAMN! This is where I need to BE!"

So this old ass dude came out of nowhere and said "Hey man. My name is GOD! I run this bitch! Pick anyone of these hos to be with forever."

I said "Huh? Just one? That's a hard choice God. How come I can't have ALL of them?"

Then God said "Nigga! These are MY hos! You can only have ONE!"

So me and God had a beef and it lead me to get kicked out of Heaven. But that didn't stop a pimp. I left and started my own shit called Hell and now I got all of God's hos down here with me and he's been pissed off at me ever since.

So to get me back for that, he sent this one dude name Jesus down to stop people from coming down to my place because that's where all the bitches is. Jesus ain't got game because he want people to obey him and all that shit but I just want people to have fun and come down here and party.

So Jesus made up this lie about my place and said that if they come down here they gonna burn up and all that shit. He just being a playa-hater because God's bitches chose me. Ain't nobody burnin' up down here. The only thang burnin' in this muthafucka is DESIRE! That's the ONLY fire that's goin' on down here!

For that shit that Jesus pulled, I sent some of my homies to get his ass. They beat his ass down and nailed his punk ass up on a cross. Yeah! They killed that fool! That's what he got for fuckin' with me.

But whatever. Haters will be haters. Heaven used to be a cool place but God is fucked up. He wanna control everythang. He don't know that I'M the one controllin' everythang because I ain't tryin' to make people do a goddamn thang! I let people just be themselves so we can have some fuckin' fun.

#357256 - 10/26/08 05:05 PM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
GCaesarWhiskers Offline

Registered: 01/14/08
Posts: 92
Loc: TN, USA
I would say that "Heaven" depends on your definition
of the term, and what meaning or value you would give
to such a concept or a place.

Magister Nemo gave you a very kind and thorough answer
to your question; I could not possibly add to it.

I can only offer this:
Play the hand which life has dealt you
and make the very most of it,

Just as you are responsible for your survival,
you are also responsible for your own happiness
and finding, creating, or living in your own "Heaven"
(if this is even a worthwhile endeavor).

If you woke up this morning,
if you were able to feed, clothe, and bathe yourself,
then you are experiencing the "Heaven" of those
who cannot do these things for themselves.

Pursue your "Happiness",
and you will know your "Heaven".

"To thine own self be true..."
May your fields always be full of food
May your dwelling be warm and dry
May your predators be dead or far away
And may your dominant mate always be happy to see you

Meerkat Blessing

#357287 - 10/26/08 10:13 PM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
RandomStranger Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/09/05
Posts: 2770
Loc: Here.
Heaven exists: right here; right now. I find it disturbing that death cults convince their followers that heaven is a place that can be entered upon death. They have it totally backwards-- you get there by living and leave it by dying!

#357328 - 10/27/08 07:40 AM Re: What if Heaven really exists? [Re: Carbon-Dioxide]
Descendant Offline

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 263
Loc: Inland Empire, Ca
Ummmmmmm.....This is real!

"Jealousy is an emotion often found in individuals whose estimation of their own worth exceeds their achievements."- from "The Satanic Scriptures" by Peter H. Gilmore

#357332 - 10/27/08 08:29 AM Re: If Heaven Were Real [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Sinister_Motive Offline

Registered: 10/22/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Oregon
If heaven were real I would rather go to hell anyway. Hell is where all my friends will be, so I won't be alone there. Antother reason for this is the fact that heaven will be full of people whom I absolutely despise. The thought of spending eternity with those people is enough to make my blood boil.

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