In my opinion, I find it a fantasy thing to give hopes for those suffering in this world. But I often wonder and come with this question in my mind and without even realising I ask myself "But what if Heaven is real?". I really wish know your opinions and thoughts about it.

It might sound a simple question but I feel it may have several point of views. Thanks in advance for your time.

And what if pink unicorns are real? Or the flying spaghetti monster? Or Tarvu?

If heaven is real we ain't getting in.

Who would want to spend an eternity with Mormons anyway?

What if Heaven is real...

A better question would be this:

WHO CARES? I don't care if there is some big Ju Ju in the sky. I simply don't give a good god damned. Go with God.



OK, that cracked Me up. Thank you. I really needed to laugh today.

Right on. We can't indulge there so why bother

Plus, I can't sing and play the harp anyway...

FC

I haven't asked this question in years. I have had no reason to.

Now that it has actually come up -

I would live My life exactly as I am right now, with only one difference, I would pray to Tarvu and the Flying Spaghetti Monster that I would not end up in heaven, EVER.

You mean it's not Iowa?

Of course heaven is real. If Reese's peanut butter cups are not pure bliss I don't know what is.

Tee hee!

Yes, Reese's peanut butter cups ARE indeed pure bliss. I have three packages of them in My freezer.

Oh, Pink Unicorn alert:

They found one in Iowa. I just saw it on CNN.

It's all about good company. I'll see you all in Hell. my ex mother-in-law will no doubt go to this happy disaster of a place. So, its puffy clouds, bright light and her OR dinner with the greatest talents and minds the Earth ever saw. yep... Hell it is.

I know what beats peanut butter, but a Lady won't tell in public

Sorry...there is no Heaven.
Only Hell: http://www.roadsideamerica.com/tip/2456

*enter demonic laughter here*

Thank you!
I was beginning to feel like a perv.

I'll take my heaven in chocolate and orgasm form, thank you.

I had BETTER see a god damned pink Unicorn down there or I'm going to be PISSED!

It would look like this (sorry...I just can't take it seriously)...

Manditory death to all who cut their grass before 12:00. This rooster doesn't crow until the crack of noon.

Endless brew on tap...and it's good for you.

Kids blast Rachmaninoff form their car stereos instead of that crap...I mean rap.

And last but not least...Jessica Alba booty calls.
Ouch! *punched by Mrs. Rooster*

LOL!

Oh Roho....how do I love thee? Let Me count the ways......

If it is real then we chose wrong. In the end we sided with ourselves instead of something that supposedly created us. It is our intellect which promotes our sense of self. If there is some creator out there, it is a fool for creating something capable of rendering it obsolete. If it is a fool then it is not worthy of worship by those that surpass it. Any punishment or reward would be a poor exchange for playing a game with rules that change with the officiator.

My opinion on heaven (or hell for that matter) is that it is a pathetic control mechanism of fear and represents the worst illogical conundrum of the human imagination.

Life is better spent on enjoyment and pursuit of those things that bring personal fulfillment rather than trying to appease the twisted ideals of people long since dead.

RaSc

Well, there you go.

I rather like this response. You said it better than I could hope to.

Good show!

I more of a beach type of gal, so I went to Hell (in Grand Cayman). While there, I couldn't resist sending myself (and quite a few others) a postcard stamped from Hell.

Ha ha! Note the phone number. 6999.

Oddly enough, My own phone number has 666 in the last four digits.

Oddly enough, My passport has 666 right smack dab in the middle of it.

Man, I need to go to Hell. Looks like fun. I'll send out some postcards too...

LOL! I hadn't noticed the phone number. You can pose with Satan while you're there too. I had a great time and can't wait to go back! Where else can you go to Hell in the morning and swim with stingrays in the afternoon

Hmmmmm ROAD TRIP! I got the airfare....

Hell may not be ready for us!

Meh, We'll turn that Mother upside down.

To Hell with you!

Heaven is going to the DMV and not having to wait all goddamned afternoon.

Personally I feel that this sort of 'what if' scenario vastly over credits the christian cosmological position. To lend even enough credit to such a ridiculous meme to postulate this scenario plays right into their hands, in the same way that people who claim to be 'agnostic' do.

But just to play along;If it was all true I would rather be in 'hell' (ie: the absence of gods presence) than worship that egomaniacal child god flat on my face for all eternity, while flying around the universe in that giant borg cube called new Jerusalem. (Yes, this is what the bible ACTUALLY says)

At least the borg get to walk around!

I sure hope there is Heaven after all!

It will include but won't be limited to: many hot men and women, none of them jealous, lots and lots of tasy food to chew on whenever I feel like it. Few people to annoy me and then again only for diversity purposes. Good music, endless entertainment options and a new video game every week. My list you can go on but you get the idea.

The truth is that contemporary ideas of how the Christian Heaven and Hell work are heavily influenced by apocryphs. I have to admit I don't know the Bible by heart and I might have missed something and while I know a good number of places where they tell you of the prerequisites to enter, I don't remember reading a whole section about Heaven being a garden with cherubs playing the harp, with milk and honey, people singing and praying to god in the middle of the clouds. Dante's famous works played a huge role in how people imagined Hell and Heaven back then and it's been passed down to the new generations. Needless to say all descrpitions of hell include physical pain or discomfort and nothing about how people feel. I've experienced a lot of physical and emotional pain to compare the two and if they think physical is worse, then can go straight to hell.

The Muslim at least have a better idea of what heaven is about, as depicted in the Quran. It lists a lot of delicious food and beautiful virgins. Well, I can relate to that. If there was a theistic heaven, I definitely would want to be in Jannah.

Why thank you! To Hell with you as well!

Don't make me hunt up that youtube video!

I find it interesting that certain descriptions of Heaven involve sinful behavior. Hmmm .... perhaps sinning is natural after all.

Ah...the Hell with it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NCiTlMrMAhU

Ok, Ok ... I promise I'll play nice.

I have it on My webpage....

Best EVER!

Then I'd rather go to Hell, because no one interesting ever went to Heaven.

If someone is suffering, and they can find some emotional comfort by accepting the myth of any given religion then so be it. Fantasy is thinking that one can change the persons in question. Nature has already predetermined.



It seems that you are at war with yourself. The notion of an afterlife is taught by man to other men, and accepted as reality by believers. Christianity is obsolete, and the package it came in was discarded a long time a go. When all you can see is the carnal, all the "what ifs" are simply unimportant. This is discussed in The Satanic Bible.



It is a simple question to answer if you have read The Satanic Bible. The point of views that you want to discuss are unimportant too. There is nothing to be gained (outside of joking around) in sitting around thinking about what you would do in a mythological place, be it heaven, or hell. Why not create your own? Right here, right now! You can start by reading The Satanic Bible.

HS!

If there is, who cares? It doesn't affect how I live my life HERE AND NOW.

Since such existence cannot be proven or disproven, the point is moot.

If others want to engage in fantasy, by all means, they have my blessing.

You want to go to the Sky be my guest.There is No heaven.There is no Hell.There is the forces of nature and thats IT.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heaven

Let us suppose that there does exist another part of reality that would match up with what is currently referred to as "Heaven", which I shall consider to be a location for the existence of dead people in some sort of afterlife.

I will set aside what kind of "Heaven" we are discussing due to the seemingly limitless versions being promoted throughout history to include the gloomy afterlife of the ancient Greeks, the Summerland of the Spiritualists, the multiple Bardo states of the Tibetan Buddhists, the seven heavens of many shamanistic religions, the Cube City in the sky fundamentalist Christian version (which has always reminded me of the Borg from Star Trek), etc.

Let's just assume that by "Heaven" we mean some kind of afterlife location in which dead people can continue to exist for a certain period of time (finite or infinite, depending on the version chosen).

Now let's suppose that it is scientifically proven to be real. (Please. All of you who are gagging. Get a grip!)

So how would an extended life - an afterlife - affect the suffering and hope of the world's people, as you now ask?

Not at all.

What?

Not at all??!

Yep.

Please understand that the vast majority of the human population already do believe in an afterlife.

And yet their behavior remains identical with regard to how they live their lives to those fewer in number who do not believe.

You see, your real question I would suggest is how would knowledge of an afterlife change how people would behave.

And beneath that question, you are asking an even deeper question which is how would the ethics of people be different if they possessed a knowledge of an afterlife.

Any set of ethical principles are based on that person's values.

Understand that the only difference between the values of someone who assumes they will live only about 75 years on average (if they stop tailgating cars on the freeways and do not get struck down by disease) and the values of someone who fully expects to continue living after death (Get a grip, people!) is quantity of life not quality of life.

Let's pull away from "Heaven" a moment to make this easier to discuss.

Let us suppose that Aubrey de Grey succeeds with his SENS project and some people become functionally immortal. (Or Michael West at Bio-Time accomplishes the same goal with his approach. Or someone else).

(We substitute extended life on earth for an extended life after death in "Heaven").

Now exactly how will the reality of knowing that you could extend your life as an unending youthful, vigorous human being affect your "suffering in this world"?

Well if your fear of death is your primary source of your "suffering" then having a likely stay of execution would have a very profound and powerful effect on you.

But the simple fact of the matter is that most people do not "suffer" because they fear death. They value death. The often view death as an escape hatch from other "suffering" such as having to work at a job, having physical ailments, having a lousy love life, irritating in-laws or neighbors, and overall seeing life as a zero sum game that they are always losing.

You can personally check this out to your heart's content by simply asking people a question: "If you could physically live forever, healthy and youthful, would you want to?"

If you ask this question I assure you that over 99% of the people you ask will tell you "NO!"

Check it for yourself.

Then think about what this means.

In my humble opinion it simply points to the fact that most people hate their lives.

Another simple test of this is to stand on a bridge over a busy freeway on Monday morning during rush hour. Count the number of happy, smiling faces you see ...if you see any at all.

So if an extended life were offered to these people I would suggest that at this point in history most of them would turn it down.

Now back to "Heaven".

If "Heaven" is a place where you can extend your life, obviously most people wouldn't really want it anyway unless it was radically different in a positive way from their lives right now.

And here is the stinger.

They do not have the slightest idea as to how it would really need to be different except to say that it would need to be without the problems they have.

They cannot tell you what they want that is different.

They can only tell you what they want to avoid.

They want to avoid working hard, feeling lousy, being lonely, having irritating people around them, on and on.

So to these poor sick people, "Heaven" is the absence of what they do not like - but damned if they know what they do want.

Well, I'll tell you what they want.

In a word.

Happiness.

They want lasting happiness.

But they do not believe that that is possible!

If you doubt me try to find the stories, the plays, the films that depict lasting happiness for the characters in them.

Shakespeare's comedies are where everyone gets married at the end of the play.

Shakespeare's tragedies are where everyone dies after they get married!

In fairy tales and ghost stories the third wish is for death.

The examples are endless, historical and cross-cultural.

But the key to happiness is to choose to be happy.

That's it.

Notice what you like and indulge yourself.

If worry stops you from happiness then do something about it if you can and then indulge yourself in what you do like.

Create the habit of happiness.

Then you can stop worrying about "Heaven" and have a Hell of good time whether there is an afterlife or not.

Just my opinion.

"If in the Spring, she whom I love so well
Meet me by some green bank - the truth I tell -
Bringing my thirsty soul a cup of wine,
I want no better Heaven, nor fear a Hell.


The Slaves of Intellect in talk persist;
Die, arguing does this or that exist;
Fools eat dry raisins 'til their souls become
Sour grapes; but wise men on New Wine insist."



(Talbot versing Heron-Allen's literal translation of Khayyám's quatrains.)

If death is the only way to verify this answer then you can count me out.

Heaven is real because I've been there.

That's right. I went there and there was this dude standin' by the gate with pearls all on that shit. He asked me if I had the players VIP card so I gave it to him.

He let me in and there were all these fine ass bitches playing harps and shit. There were all in sexy white lingerie. Man they were BAD! All complexions and sizes. I was like "DAMN! This is where I need to BE!"

So this old ass dude came out of nowhere and said "Hey man. My name is GOD! I run this bitch! Pick anyone of these hos to be with forever."

I said "Huh? Just one? That's a hard choice God. How come I can't have ALL of them?"

Then God said "Nigga! These are MY hos! You can only have ONE!"

So me and God had a beef and it lead me to get kicked out of Heaven. But that didn't stop a pimp. I left and started my own shit called Hell and now I got all of God's hos down here with me and he's been pissed off at me ever since.

So to get me back for that, he sent this one dude name Jesus down to stop people from coming down to my place because that's where all the bitches is. Jesus ain't got game because he want people to obey him and all that shit but I just want people to have fun and come down here and party.

So Jesus made up this lie about my place and said that if they come down here they gonna burn up and all that shit. He just being a playa-hater because God's bitches chose me. Ain't nobody burnin' up down here. The only thang burnin' in this muthafucka is DESIRE! That's the ONLY fire that's goin' on down here!

For that shit that Jesus pulled, I sent some of my homies to get his ass. They beat his ass down and nailed his punk ass up on a cross. Yeah! They killed that fool! That's what he got for fuckin' with me.

But whatever. Haters will be haters. Heaven used to be a cool place but God is fucked up. He wanna control everythang. He don't know that I'M the one controllin' everythang because I ain't tryin' to make people do a goddamn thang! I let people just be themselves so we can have some fuckin' fun.

Carbon-Dioxide,
I would say that "Heaven" depends on your definition
of the term, and what meaning or value you would give
to such a concept or a place.

Magister Nemo gave you a very kind and thorough answer
to your question; I could not possibly add to it.

I can only offer this:
Play the hand which life has dealt you
and make the very most of it,
WHILE YOU ARE HERE!

Just as you are responsible for your survival,
you are also responsible for your own happiness
and finding, creating, or living in your own "Heaven"
(if this is even a worthwhile endeavor).

If you woke up this morning,
if you were able to feed, clothe, and bathe yourself,
then you are experiencing the "Heaven" of those
who cannot do these things for themselves.

Pursue your "Happiness",
and you will know your "Heaven".

"To thine own self be true..."

Heaven exists: right here; right now. I find it disturbing that death cults convince their followers that heaven is a place that can be entered upon death. They have it totally backwards-- you get there by living and leave it by dying!

Ummmmmmm.....This is real!

If heaven were real I would rather go to hell anyway. Hell is where all my friends will be, so I won't be alone there. Antother reason for this is the fact that heaven will be full of people whom I absolutely despise. The thought of spending eternity with those people is enough to make my blood boil.

Good answer!

If you are really commited to what it is that you believe, when those occasional doubts consiously form your inner self should respond immediately with "where the hell did that come from? i know better." and you go on your merry way.
In the literal sense, if heaven really does exist, you weren't going there anyway or you wouldn't be here. In my opinion, it's kind of an obsolete question because it's not applicable.

I have polled people (all different ages, levels of education, socio-economic status) and you were right, the vast majority responded "No." A few responded with a "Maybe." Not a single person said "Yes."

I can understand not wanting to extend one's life when one may be elderly, ailing, and dependent on others. It baffles me to think that most people do not want to extend their lives with the promises of youth and health. This exercise was a jolting reality check, which reminded me that most people's thoughts and outlooks are significantly different than my own. Thank you for the suggestion, it was well worth the time.

Well, 99 percent of people are, recent studies have shown, stupid idiots.

If 99 percent of people wish death upon themselves, than those statistics clearly reflect that of the "stupid" statistic.

This leads us to the conclusion that 99 percent of people are stupid, and want to die.

The first thing that came to my mind was Yes. I think people are scared of watching their loved ones die off and they live on. Provided this wasn't a majority thing and a one time deal with whomever it was being asked and could happen. Most people are afraid to be alone.

Would you live your life to the fullest if you had all the time of the world? What would you do after a few hundreds of years on this ball of dirt? I don't know.. everything loses the thrill after you've done it some times. And when more time passes, you lose a lot of people you know.

But this is an 'what if' question. It just isn't. So i'll live my life and do my best to live long. :p

Maybe most people don't feel good about living forever because they feel they just can't make their lives meaningful for such a long amount of time, even if they can't articulate that fear.

People are naturally inclined to prepare for death during their lives, it is our evolutionary task, to push the responsibility of making a difference on to our children and leave a mark in our society through our accomplishments, and thus attain "peace" and become depressed or obsolete when there is nothing more significance we can attain in order to serve the organism by evolving. We build our lives so we can die, and the old can evolve by being replaced by the new.

I guess the step that some of us make is to form an attachment to self improvement and the struggle of life itself so that we don't get bored with it.

I really see it as an opportunity to learn and grow over time. Imagine the history you could be a part of.

"If 99 percent of people wish death upon themselves, than those statistics clearly reflect that of the "stupid" statistic."

I asked a few people that I know if they'd want to live forever, and as expected everyone said no, or not sure.
At the same time, I wouldn't consider those people stupid. I mean if they have an unfounded belief in some kind of afterlife while neglecting living life to the fullest here, then maybe it's stupid. But if that's not the case, then I don't know.

What's interesting is that one person who admitted being happy and has plenty of things in life that she appreciates still would not want to live forever. I think some people can see death as peaceful (not necessarily my view), and after all, if death is the end, you wouldn't know you are dead and wouldn't care, so what is the bad in that?

"Would you live your life to the fullest if you had all the time of the world? What would you do after a few hundreds of years on this ball of dirt? I don't know.. everything loses the thrill after you've done it some times."

It's what I am leaning towards too. After you've done everything you've wanted, what else would there be to live for?

Eternity is a long long time. Can anyone imagine what it really is like or approximately how long? I certainly can't. So I couldn't even answer the question if I'd want to live forever. I don't even know what it's like or what that would mean.
All that I care about is making life meaningful in the time that I have now.

Then it still begs the questions of who goes there, under what exact conditions, can we even get there in the first place, who or what enforces the trip, the purpose of heaven, whether or not other alternatives realms exist, what they are, what exactly goes on in heaven, is it really desirable, and what are the dead's responsibilities there.

If the existence of "heaven" is at best debatable, then why should any of these other things be any less debatable? You can't even get two different sects of the same religion to agree on all these things.


So in other words, it doesn't exist?

I stopped believing in heaven and hell long before I stopped being a theist. (It *is* a handy tool to keep the masses in line, though.)

That happened when this occurred to me: Line up every human who has ever lived and sort them based upon whatever criteria a god would use to determine who is going to heaven and who is going to hell. It does not matter what the criteria is. Somewhere in that line are two people standing next to each other such that one will go to heaven and the other will go to hell. Those two people will be nearly identical with respect to the criteria used to sort them given the billions of people who have ever lived.

It is impossible to believe that any being - let alone one that is supposedly benevolent - could send those two people to opposite locations for eternity. Even if I suspend that disbelief, any being who could make that discrete choice based upon such a minute difference is not one with whom I would want to spend eternity.

Life is what I make of it. If I think I should have heaven, it is. If I think I should have hell, it is. My god and judge is in me. I get the life I have *NOW* because I believe it is what I should have.

Atreus

You are welcome.

Deathism is more popular than any other religion on Earth.

And it is very popular to think that way too!

Yes, that next orgasm is sure to be a bore.

Hunger. Good food. Eat. Enjoy. Repeat.

Thirst. Good drink. Swallow. Enjoy. Repeat.

The Seven Deadly Sins will continue to work for you, guiding you unerringly toward pleasure and away from pain for as long as you live.



Easy. It is your next breath. Followed by another. Followed by another.

Not being able to breathe is also easy to imagine and not very desirable!

Deathism. The most popular religion in the world! To be a true deathist you only need to not think about what it really means.

Sex. Good piece of ass. Tap. Enjoy. Repeat and repeat that shit and tap that ass again and again man!

Doing it again.

Fortunately, my present project...Operation Jessica Alba...or OJay...is such a long shot, I am guaranteed another century.

Ok, you got me

it's difficult for me to even entertain this topic.. heaven is not real. End of discussion.

"Hunger. Good food. Eat. Enjoy. Repeat.

Thirst. Good drink. Swallow. Enjoy. Repeat.

The Seven Deadly Sins will continue to work for you, guiding you unerringly toward pleasure and away from pain for as long as you live.
"
That works.

"Deathism. The most popular religion in the world! To be a true deathist you only need to not think about what it really means."

Hmm, I am thinking but I am not sure what deathism means. Wanting to die or not wanting to live forever? (I don't consider these the same)
If one lives their life to the fullest I wouldn't consider them to be a deathist regardless of whether or not they want immortality. That is exactly what I am trying to do, as all I can expect of myself is to do the best that I can in the time that I know I have.

I'm happy to inform you all that Heaven is a real place...and it's in Phoenix, AZ, going by the alias of The Heart Attack Grill: Home of the Quadruple Bypass Burger.

It is a magical place where you can order food that will fill you with joy and shorten your overall life-expectancy and is served by waitresses in skimpy nurse uniforms...now seriously, who could ask for more than that?

Now you're speaking my language.
I will not share any other fetish *cough*librarians*cough*

Just go to a morgue or some funerals.

Talk to the unwilling participants.

That is Choice A.

Choice A is the deathism choice.

Choice B is choosing not to die.

Not dying is just ...not dying.

This is not rocket science.

But it is important.

To you.

Yes.

It is difficult to do that if you chose death first.

Really simple stuff.

This is all great but the real question is, how do we defeat the unicorns?

As I have moved out of first-phase Satanism, I have learned that time spent thinking about "what-ifs", especially if they concern religious ideas that I don't identify with, is time and energy wasted that is better spent pondering something productive.

"Be very careful what you put into your head, for you will never get it out"

After having read the post of several members, I decided to try your test for myself, Magister. I asked a few persons if, given the choice, they chose eternal life or death.

My co-worker answered without hesitation that he would live forever. He even added that “I will be kicking and screaming when I am on my death bed, I will not go quietly.”

The cleaner that does our offices during the day said that she would like to live forever because she “fears death and the emptiness that will follow”.

Another person said that he would welcome death when it will come because he knows that he will have lived a full life.

There were a lot of people that said that heaven would be a welcome change of pace, some wanted clarifications like: “would it be the same type of life” or “can I make changes…”

All in all it confirms your theory.

I had fun asking this to the people around my work, it was informative.

Thank you Sir.

Just as the fox who couldn't reach the grapes declared they were sour and something he "didn't want anyway", most people come up with reasons why living on (even in a healthy and youthful body) is something they "didn't want anyway".

...because life would be boring.

...because everyone you knew would die.

...because life itself is unpleasant.

...because the Bible tells me so.

But none of this holds water if we just instead narrow it down to wanting to not die this very instant.

Suddenly everyone becomes an optimist and just maybe those grapes might not be that sour after all!

Could heaven exist? Yes.

Could Hell exist? Yes.

Could Lucifer and God exist? Yes.

Do I live my life caring if they do? No.

If your going to worry about heaven or hell being real, you might as well just be a Christian.

No one knows for sure if heaven does, or doesn't exist. Satanist are willing to take the risk and believe it doesn't and live for the here in now. What do you have to lose?

Worse comes to worse, if you find yourself being that worried about it, you can always repent on your death bed. I hear God forgives pretty much everyone now a days...except for the gays, he hates them.

If there is some kind of all knowing entity that exists out there, it isn't whatever was written in the Bible.

That 2,000 page sleeping pill has been edited more times than you could care to know.

I agree with the sentiment, however, I think it is a bit off. Namely, Satanists don't "believe" anything, one way or another. Being open to a possibility of some super-normal thing existing doesn't require belief one way or the other. Just evidence. So far, God doesn't have a lot of that on his end of the table.

Point taken. I guess "believe" was the wrong word.I should have said "Satanist are willing to take a risk, based on the evidence, that God nor heaven exist"

I'll keep this in mind for the future.

though i learned satanists seek evidence not excepting to enter heaven or hell

spit on uou if you dont want the thred to continue

this is my best evidence i have obtained to keep the thred going

Seems to me sensitivity requires scripture.

1) ok im made in the image of god if he is logical spock wise or other then thus i am made thus the same way. though we have to understand not one man is rightious so he holds back part of his image to distant himself from us to allow room for exploration of beliefe and faith. the expansion between the self image and faith and beliefe is infite the alpaha you towards the rightious omega him. this i believe in faith.

2) gods infinite expansion of spirtuality and reality of space and time is my beliefe when scripture atrubutes that god is all things big and small he is the alpha and omega.

3) material goods can be mother natures or gods. this is my beliefe. scripture suggests god baught and paid for our body soul and spirit so treat it as a temple of gods. so to say our bodies arvived from ashes and end in ashes so the same then goes with material goods. though possesion is 9/10 of the law the 1/10 i presume is reality is that one tenth is awarnesses expansion to obtain religion/science thus lifes chain circle of obtainable life and material goods. though god can lend that which is of the 9/10 to the point of scripture suggesting for jesus to bow down to satan to have the world.

4) with beliefe there stems logic such things as stepping stones. this is because earth is curcular however the universe einstein suggests is simiar to being a flat stepping stone of worlds with the sun being so heavy to balance the universe straight. expanding the reflection of light while extracting the expansion of electric energy (also known as radiation or ultra violet light both spiritual and in reality) some might suggest asking the holy spirit questions of concern. these questions are based on prair the effect this has is a curcular motion of seperated answers and still remaing questions. the still remaing questions causes expansion i guess in space mabby the sun. this expansion of absolute is the alpha and omega god himself in this universe and expanded on to others with seperation of the whole curcular motion above in motion, causing energy to form matter in hope for answered future praires.

5) added beliefe material goods have a universal identity governing each item in reality causing a canection creating a image of the universe upon items individually thus free hopeful awarness of the will of purpose. this is how freewill proclames its purpose sort of on humans animals and material goods. material goods are awareness in a degree procsess that of acceptence sort of. as a house plant as well as all material things have a purpose living things can nurture that purpose threw love for so short of a word. thus causing a house plant to grow better. this however might be because you remember to water and take care of it more. leading me to believe reality has a subconcience on a claravoient level in order to comunicate because of slavery isolation. i also portain all related material goods are spiritually seperated and the exceptence of connecting to one another is aload. for many cries in the wilderness is heard better then one.

as illogical as god might be seen here i have obtained a satisfieng inner strength of logical beliefe that satisfies my craving to see godd as logical all knowing all caring being the alpha and omega and showing his purpose in my life. my logical beliefe shows me integent illogical design upon the proof that god exists. i turn the illogical god into loving logic threw faith. thus meating up with such things as rightiousness.

know argue god doesnt exist and argue he is illogical. or show as i did a beliefe structure in honour of god.

Why is it that believers who stumble upon this forum always have the worst grammar, and are the most poorly educated?

I'm sensing a pattern here...

...
...
...
...
...what?

Funny how it always seems to be that the least educated people you run into are the followers of "god"...

I'm sorry, babblefish doesn't translate Christian, so I can't reply.

A lady never spits.

Y~

I'm sorry. I didn't understand a one word you just said.

But (because i'm sure her and the joy luck club are going to be going over this even though she/he/it was banned) consider these facts into evidence:

1.) Adam and Eve are the 1st 2 people on this earth, they bear a child, Cain. Then they have Able. Cain and Able make sacrifices to God one day and God likes Able's better, although it wasn't a blood sacrifice. Cain kills Able. He is marked for shame and sent out into the wilderness...and what does he do? He BEARS A WIFE? Where the hell did she come from?!!!!

2.) The world was destroyed the 1st time by water. Noah and his family were saved having already a based religion, language, and sound intelligence...

Where the hell do the cavemen come into play. Did we de-evolve through sinnish incest?!

3.) If heaven is the same today, tomorrow and forever, and is a place of UNENDING happiness with no sorrow...

How could Satan ever have become jealous, bothered, or deserve anything that befell him?

Consider this amongst yourself...Pretend for a moment you are God? You are the alpha and the omega, you know the beginning and the end...

Why would you make people knowing that they were going to burn in Hell?

And since he knows the beginning and the end...doesn't that mean that we have destinys that must be fulfilled for his alleged purpose? And what is that purpose is a good question?

His own personal masturbation? be it mental or physical?

You should really read "God of The Assholes" by Anton LaVey...

Anyhow...I just wasted so much time on people who most likely won't change. But i'm a ranter anyway on occasion. Its my cross-to-bear LMAOd

Trying to convince a christian god doesn't excist is a waste of your time mate.

Dear Mr. Warlock Callier,

I was doing some spying on heaven last night and this is what I have to report back to you.

1. There is only 1 fine bitch in heaven.
2. The rest are a bunch of cross dressing, closeted, christian preachers and evangelists.
3. God likes to rub his 2 inch limp dick on cross dressing, closeted, christian preachers and evangelists.

I had to use the high power scope to get the rest of the information...

4. It appears that God has syphilis, the clap and Herpes. I am not to sure what the fungal/mushroom growths were.

Sincerly,
Dark River

THIS JUST IN:
Moments ago Gods dick fell off and there is much weeping and gnashing of teeth taking place in heaven. This is truly a hellish day for preachers and evangelists.

Oh My...

Well if you’re going to discuss biblical myths
Why stop there?

How about a virgins giving birth?

Or this one particularly in these tough economical times:

What if we could feed a few thousand people with a couple fish?

McDonalds have been doing that for years with the Filet-O-Fish patty.

*smacks forehead* Oops my mistake

Actually, I have a theory on this, that while far fetch, could be the reason for the so called "Virgin Birth" It is called, Sleep sex

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sleep_sex

My theory is that one night, while laying together, Joe got his sex on with Mary and when they woke up, they wouldn't have even realized it. Thus, she technically was a "virgin birth" at least they thought she was, because no one knew they technically had sex. So as far as everyone still knew, she was a virgin.


This was the theory I had as a kid though.

I knew a couple of cases of "virgin mothers".

They were teenagers who thought just "playing around" was o.k. as long as there was no real penetration...

Apparently they liked to play it messy too and they didn't count on sperms' ability to find their way.

Very interesting! I actually hadn't considered this. Her hymen would be intact and everything wouldn't it?!

Could you imagine the hypocricy! The alleged messiah born of premarital sex! Sounds like a bad soap opera...

Bartles & Jaymes by the way were able to turn water into wine.

As for the virgin birth, such a child would have to be female, because mothers only have X-chromosomes. On the other hand, I've heard that the X/Y situation for male/female determination is biologically reversed in the case of turkeys. Make of that what you will.

Well, you could look at it that way I guess. I always tell people they already had IVF back in those days!

Ok -

Jesus Joseph Mary and all of the Saints! I nearly ruined this computer after seeing the turkey baster picture. I had a mouth full of water you see......luckily I got it down before swpewing it onto the laptop.

Then there's sleeploitation.
Warm milk?

I don't believe in the Christian heaven. What comes after our death remains to be seen, but I reject the notions of Christianity. My current tendency leans toward reincarnation. Not that I change much, but I am not convinced of anything beyond death since I have not experienced it.

With advancing technology, there is always something new "to do" or to learn. If asked the question, I would answer with a resounding,"YES!"

Look back through history: if someone born in, say, 1885 were asked if s/he would want to live forever with youth and health. And suppose they accepted the gift. Look at all the advancements through the 20th century. And, I think, it isn't over yet.

So, with youth and health, Hell yes, I would choose immortality.

The point you made about watching friends and loved ones die off? If the are of the Deathist Cult, let them go. I'll make new friends.

Is that simply because they don't know any better?

no its because

"The Bi-ble Tells them Soooooo" *insert bad piano playing*

Your reactions make me Eve.

Most myths about heavens usually include a counterpart hell where your soul will suffer for eternity. If this were indeed by some chance true, then I would have an immortal soul that could never die (otherwise how will they torture me forever?) therefore, I am saved from oblivion. That would be ideal I think.

Pascal's wager has always had it backwards, we should gamble that heaven is false, because if it is, then this life is all we have and we are gone forever if we die. Let's plan for that inevitability, and if it turns our we're wrong, then maybe we'll find out some day if a random comet hits us or something. I'm not in any rush, if indeed there's an eternity waiting in an afterlife, then it will no doubt be LONGER than the time we get to spend in the flesh, meaning we should try to stay in the flesh for as long as possible.

I haven't seen any concrete statements on how long possible is, so I presume a really long time so long as we don't get sick and die.

well...immortality *could* be achieved (sort of). This dig is this: Most of the aging process is a decrease in the splitting of DNA strands. The main reason this happens is due to the ends of the strands (I forget what exactly they're called, but they bind the strands together and keep them from fraying...kind of like the ends of your shoe laces...). After so many splits, these ends start to lose cohesion and the DNA strand isn't bound together as well and splits become less successful.

Now if there was some way to retain the strength of those end caps, theoritically your DNA could replicate indefinitely. Granted, you could still be killed or fall ill, but you would for all intents and purposes be in your prime throughout your entire existence.

Of course, there are other factors that play on the lifespan of these end caps. Stress, diet, or any number of other things that you could do to the body seems to affect their cohesive properties.

Granted, I found this information in a medical magazine while looking for anatomical references for a drawing I was working on at the time, and I would guess that it's largely theoretical...so take it for what it's worth. I just thought I'd chip in that little bit of info with all the talk of immortality in the mix...

V.

Will BioTime Reset the Clock of Aging?

In place of Daark, when I registered here in 2003, it was nearly under the user name of Telomere.

Thought you might appreciate that.

I don't have any plans to contradict you VaH, I hope you did not think I was implying anything contrary. Whatever the solution is, it's going to require nonflagrant use of resources, meaning we'll have to work for it. Even when ageing and related diseases are no longer a problem, there will always be things to kill us which we need to work on fighting against. That's the issue with religions who do not feel it is a large priorioty. Believing in an afterlife, they focus more on making life comfortable than making it lengthly.

You have accidentally posted under my post when you meant to post under VaH.

Please learn how this board functions before posting or it causes confusion.

Kindly remove your reply and repost it in the place you actually intended to.

The problem may be that you are viewing this thread in 'flat mode' instead of 'threaded mode'.

Thank you.

Of Course Heaven exsists!



The black forest flavour takes ice cream to a new level

Thank you for the link, good sir! Not being able to remember what the telomeres were called was going to drive me bonkers

The issue that I see with immortality is that I don't think that many who desire it actually have the stamina for it. This is simply to say that many would simply not know what to do with themselves for eternity. The esteemed Doctor put it best: "There are many who yearn for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon."

Also I'm pretty sure it would require an individual with an unparallelled level of detachment to the world around him or her. Knowing that any bonds you might have with another are most likely temporary, I could see where this could lend itself very easily to the extremes of hedonism or nihilism. Naturally, I would wager that individuals that are already predisposed to those sorts of mentalities are already quite fit for immortality.

I prefer a different mode of thought on the subject of immortality. I don't want to live forever, but rather live until such time as I decide I don't want to anymore. Say what you will about it; I like to keep my options open.

Well then, that's easy, isn't it?

If immortality treatment becomes available, take advantage of it.

Then, if you ever get bored, simply throw yourself off the nearest high-rise. Problem solved.

touche!

Thank you, thank you for illuminating me on the illustrious wisdom of Tarvu.

I read the Diabolicon which details an interpretation in Statement form of the Seraphic wars (God vs Lucifer) and then the creation of hell, mankind and other things.

In it he says that Hell was created by lucifer and the angels that followed him expected something more or less like heaven. They were suprised to find it was quite different. Chaos, due to the complete freedom of wills.
Heaven was kept in order by the angels blind faith and they gave their will completely to 'God' (made to be some form of being but never actually shown to be sentient) and it was this that kept heaven in perfect order at the cost of complete dissolution of free will and ego.

If heaven and hell exist, and this interpretation is far more believable when one reads the Diabolicon, then I personally think Hell seems a much more appealing place than heaven.

I would offer perhaps no greater than .00001% chance that any "genuine" heaven be authentic in terms of virtual existence, albeit any individual might arrive at peculiar view, immediate awareness, else distinct perception at any given time. Heaven, as sheer Christian dogmatic principle, to me, lit. evidence of inane Herd Mentality for which LaVey clearly disapproved of.

Much opposite, "paradise" perhaps, in terms of lit. comfort or satisfaction, be that Satannic interpretation of some explicit dark realm, majestic cavern or other, even I presumably once entreated for a time, e.g. she was just that good .

The Bible, to me, as with many people, at most meager comic book in many respects, a layman's guide for philosophical compliance with nonsense morality, and morality to me is of unique offense (I like what I like, when I like it, with whom I wish to enjoy the same with).

NOTE: Clearly, I do recognize principles of select existence wherefrom equivelant of "distinct realm" is more than obvious. I simply choose to disregard, else disapprove of quasi "moral" realms as commonly purported.

Impeccable reply!

Rumor has it that more than a single beauty mirrored pretty little Sandra within the mystique dark forest, each of course, bearing an esteemed designation akin to " Magister ". But otherwise, her beauty was personally unveiled before me uniquely off-set, having just concluded a days filming as she then portrayed a precocious young lady. Reportedly, Anton was out in the woods at such time with a distinct blonde, camped out within the precise same cabin where Norma and Arthur Fiddler had honeymooned years previous. Oh, those were the days. Nice to know some of the beauties determined to forever stay young! So let our youth endure forever.

Or they may be looking around at the world and realize that its full of very low life forms and now that an eternity of this would be very annoying at many levels.

Anything for an eternity would be boring on some level. If heaven was real you'd be annoyed by the assholes that are in it. If hell were real, we'd all get used to the heat or whatever torture it has, and make fun of the new guys painful cries.

I'd like to be at least 100, just to see what I can do in that time, and also to see how many of us realize an Is-to-be.

IF you could live for eternity, do you not think that the annoying aspects of this world would become even more trivial?

IF you knew that technology could grant you everlasting life, would it not change how you lived much more than the hollow promises of heaven and hell? Would you not be able to shrug off the most cumbersome task or troubling circumstance, knowing that you had eternity to handle your problems?

IF you enjoy life, IF you can rise above the mindless shuffling of the human herd, IF you savor every moment, would you not want it to last?

Just a few thoughts of my own.

To be fair, there are people much wiser than I who have and do put it much more eloquently.

What if we played ping-pong with bowling balls? What if money grew on trees? What if you had to pay your employer so that you could work? What if I had a $5 bill with "IF" as part of the serial number? Oh, wait, I DO have a $5 bill with "IF" as part of the serial number.

I dunno, the idea of heaven seems a little fishy to me. I mean come on, "You don’t have to be afraid of dying because there’s this magical happy place with no sin or death or suffering and everyone you know and love will be there and blah blah blah..." Feels kinda like I'm being conned.

I mean if someone on the street came up to you and told you about a magical island somewhere with all your dead loved ones on it and no more sadness, you'd clearly think they were crazy or a bullshiting you.

Theistic religion found a way to ensure you could never investigate or disprove their claims about the afterlife: you have to meet the unfortunate prerequisite of being dead before you can go there, thus no one can 'disprove' the claim that heaven is really there.

I dunno, the whole "too good to be true" thing comes to mind whenever I think about heaven.

My father likes to say: "Everybody say, that Heaven's beautiful, but no one wants to get there." ... sometime, instead of want he uses hurry. But it's true - if heaven's so great place, why all so-sure-believers so care for being alive.
A bit exaggerated, but eventually, they wouldn't have to care if they are sick, because it's God's will, and there's better place waiting for them.

interesting comment Magister, but the question of the existence of an afterlife raises many questions. and to be frank, i just cant know. Christianity and many other major religions, with all their dogmas and consequences are amusing because they appear to be ridiculous, but also scary. There will always be the fear of the unknown. In an aesthetic / Satanic point of view its also scary, don't get me wrong. i am a firm believer in the philosophy of satanism because "I" found it much more realistic and truthful. There is always the fear, whether people claim to be happy and satisfied with their life. Its a struggle. and a question i can never answer.

Not if you consider the word "afterlife".
There is only one thing after life.
Death.
Not much to question.

A whole Yale course on the philosophy of death and the afterlife. Happens to be free to watch. The professor isn't boring at all either. Hope everyone enjoys.

http://academicearth.org/courses/death

In regards to the rationality and desirability of theories on the continuance of consciousness after physical death, I have strong reservations.

Reincarnation has been a fad the past few decades, and it is rational in that yes, nature conserves all energy and consciousness itself is at its most base level an energetic phenomenon... Until you consider the fact that your identity is a very, VERY delicately arranged 'pattern' of that energy! Presuming we all have past incarnations, how much of these individuals actually remains? Do you know their names, or who and what they loved? The only honest answer is that no, they really don't live on. The individual you are now has to achieve his or her potential NOW, not in fifty lifetimes. That's an unpleasant thought indeed, but it is likely the most accurate one even if some portion of your being moves on to a new body.

In regard to imaginary destinations IE heaven or hell, you must ask yourself this: Since most if not all of our personality as human beings is endemic to man's animal nature, does it follow that the majority of who and what you are in terms of basic motivations would live on in some ethereal plane outside of physical reality? I do not believe it does.

And finally there is a very simple question you can ask yourself to resolve the issue. Ask yourself "If I were to drink a hundred beers and swallow seven vicodin, should I expect to retain consciousness?", and then ask yourself: "If my whole physical being were annihilated, should I expect to retain consciousness?"

That clears things up very quickly.

Religious people, Christians at least as far as I'm concerned, believe presumably that you reincarnate to an ethereal "body", not to a physical one ergo "retaining" has no meaning, the beer and the vicodin only destroy your human body.


As for your swift response.. Resolve the issue? Your argument resolves the aesthetic perspective of the issue. But what i commented was based entirely on doubts.

Point conceded at least insofar as I recognize an exotic excuse could be employed as to why we black out under the influence of drugs but fail to do so after the total death of our physical forms. You have a valid point there.



Agreed. Actually I can reasonably make no such claim to resolve any such issue in a broad sense for anyone but myself... Also you may be under the impression I was stating "you" as in the personal, not the general. I wasn't replying to you specifically, but this is my fault for being imprecise. I intended to address the topic at large.