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#363513 - 12/02/08 07:04 PM charisma!
all hallows

we obviously know the good doctor had plenty of it; do you think people are born with it (nature), or can develop it (nurture)? or both?

can one "learn" to be charismatic?

i think one can learn to imitate being charismatic. but the part that is natural about it is that it is effortless to the truly charismatic; it's the passion in the way one says their words, with the gleam in their eyes, the trail of magic left by their hands, and the electricity in their somebody from a kerouac book or something. you can't really fake something like that.

Edited by all hallows (12/02/08 07:06 PM)

#363542 - 12/02/08 11:40 PM Re: charisma! [Re: ]
J. Hagalaz Offline

Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
I think it may be a good mixture of both nature and nurture. That said, I think there is almost no personality trait that one person has that another person cannot model and acquire, at least to some degree. If you can understand another person’s subjective experience, then you can essentially experience that same map of the world and adopt a similar way of thinking.

However, you might not want to adopt every aspect of their "world." After all, Richard Kuklinski was a very charismatic individual. eek
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

#363594 - 12/03/08 08:31 AM Re: charisma! [Re: ]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I think that with study and work, a person certainly can improve the various skills and qualities often associated with charisma--wit, charm, assertiveness, confidence, leadership ability, sex appeal, intrigue, and an interest in people, to name just a few.

But, I tend to think that true charisma is typically something that is effortless and almost innate. Some people just sparkle; it's who they are. Even with training and practice, one may not be able to fully attain the level of fluid, full charisma possessed by those born naturals. (This is especially true if one's goal is merely to be able to fake or imitate the qualities associated with charisma.) Still, I think one always has a great deal to gain from trying to improve these skills as much as possible, because every bit of improvement and learning helps.
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

#363596 - 12/03/08 08:40 AM Re: charisma! [Re: ]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 7000
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
You either gots it or you ain't.

"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

#363609 - 12/03/08 09:50 AM Re: charisma! [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
You either gots it or you ain't.

I agree.

I was just thinking of something (similar) well, perhaps not, but to Me it is likened to this topic.


Any bloke can learn to read music. It can be studied. Practiced. Honed.

However, do you have a 'natural ear' for it?

Can others hear you through your music? Soul. Some people have it. Some people do not.

I was just on My Violin watching Sweeney Todd. I have never played these pieces before....but My fingers KNOW where to go. They KNOW.

How? I do NOT know.

Possession? OR something born within? I is within.

This could be natural Witchery, music, etc. (Name the trade/art/skill).

Some people have it, some people do not. You can learn......but I feel it is not quite the same as....knowing.

I cannot explain it.

I feel most everyone has a 'gift' of sorts. What is that gift? My suggestion is trying a vast variety of things until you find your groove.

This is NOT to say that one should NOT study the art of lesser magic. OF COURSE YOU SHOULD. I am simply saying that charisma.....well yes, you simply have it or you don't.

You can fake it. Most of the herd will not notice. But I will....
Satan LIVES!
If you could....would YOU?

"Our religion does not require martyrs."
Magistra Nadramia.

YOU can be a voice for the voiceless.

#363698 - 12/03/08 06:09 PM Re: charisma! [Re: Evil_Eve]
HorrorCore Offline

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 137
Loc: WA
I was just on My Violin watching Sweeney Todd. I have never played these pieces before....but My fingers KNOW where to go. They KNOW.

I've been playing piano for about 10 years, I know exactly what you're talking about, it's creepy. As far as charisma goes, I think I have pretty strong charismatic features. However, it is something that I'm constantly trying to improve.
Do you believe in the truth? Or do you seek it?

#363703 - 12/03/08 06:21 PM Re: charisma! [Re: Evil_Eve]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3580
Loc: Calgary
I always found it extremely frustrating to "jam" with people who knew only what they read in books. My brother in law has been playing guitar a few years longer than me, but it still drives me CRAZY to hear him attempt to emulate ANY tune. He is always a few notes off, and even after explaining it to him a hundred times, cannot hear it.


That being said, he knows his scales, and what not; but he has no rhythm to speak of, no soul whatsoever. He plays in the most boring, stale, robotic fashion, and any of his "pieces" make me want to throw myself out a window. I have, since, pretty much stopped playing, but every now and then he will try to show me what he has been learning. It's a test of endurance, let me tell you.

#363717 - 12/03/08 06:47 PM Re: charisma! [Re: TheDegenerate]
HorrorCore Offline

Registered: 08/11/08
Posts: 137
Loc: WA
I imagine being a music instructor would be very frustrating,
Do you believe in the truth? Or do you seek it?

#363718 - 12/03/08 06:51 PM Re: charisma! [Re: ]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2215
I got techniques dripping out my butt cheeks.

So I go with nature.

#363745 - 12/03/08 09:37 PM Re: charisma! [Re: Callier]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10770
Loc: England
>> I got techniques dripping out my butt cheeks <<

You've either got it or you aint, dog.

And you've got it.

No Homo.

Human beings are as significant as a cigarette burn in the sun.

#364122 - 12/06/08 03:07 AM Re: charisma! [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Dean Tempest Offline

Registered: 01/29/08
Posts: 51
Loc: lexington, ky
Me & my mom had this conversation about charisma about 6 months back I believe. My father is an extremely charismatic (and manipulative) bastard. The man could convince someone to buy sand in the desert if you didnt know him.

Of course she also commented that while I am not nearly as good as he is in some respects, I have the knack like he does all the same. Of course she also said that even though I dont have 40 years of practice behind me, I am still ahead of him at my age then he was then.

Might help that I am not obese. He just can not lay off the food.
"Being a good fiend is like being a photographer…you have to search for the right moment!" - Vegeta

#364275 - 12/07/08 02:47 AM Re: charisma! [Re: Dean Tempest]
Sinestro Offline

Registered: 10/03/08
Posts: 19
Isn't charisma what HItler had? He mesmorized / enthralled most of the German population with his speeches. They also say now he was a Shizophrenic along with some drugs. Meth, etc. In the First Family of Satanism interviews by Bob Larson in 1989 of Zeena LaVey and Nikolas Shrek on YouTube. Nickolas says Hitler was a powerful Black Magician. I need to do some more research on it. The symbology, and use of the occult has been documented.

I suppose look at anyone in the media spotlight. Or any of the other current world leaders. Not sure if taking some public speech courses would make the average joe charismatic. Seems to be like any talent. Either you are born with it or not.

#364277 - 12/07/08 03:32 AM Re: charisma! [Re: Sinestro]
Mr Avarice Offline

Registered: 12/04/07
Posts: 991
Loc: Scandinavia
Hitler was indeed a great speaker, but he also had enough accomplishments to back up his claims.
Adolf Hitler wikipedia article

In the First Family of Satanism interviews by Bob Larson in 1989 of Zeena LaVey and Nikolas Shrek on YouTube. Nickolas says Hitler was a powerful Black Magician. I need to do some more research on it. The symbology, and use of the occult has been documented.

You really should do some research. Personally, I wouldn't take anything those two say at face value. crossbones


#364375 - 12/08/08 07:31 AM Re: charisma! [Re: ]
Aro Offline

Registered: 12/06/08
Posts: 5
I can't walk a tightrope, do a back flip OR laugh without snorting, but I will say if it's something i am passionate enough about, something I would take the risk of dying for, I just might acquire those skills in a heartbeat. If my goals really are unattainable for whatever reason, then my gift is passion Really there is nothing that can break that down. I think that's really the base of all great change in the world, like the good Doctor, Hitler, even the guy who invented the Clapper what was his name... something Boschen. for something as proportionately small in the scheme of things, may it be to aid the handicapped or the lazy, he took the time, effort and money. Too bad he didn't patent it. If we were all made lazier in 1963 as opposed to 1986, we might have huge heads with 20 pound brains by now... :\



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