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#36463 - 04/26/04 05:35 PM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Shiva]
Insurgent Offline
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Registered: 08/08/01
Posts: 2312
Quote:

Although I'll admit, the other arguement I often hear about public executions is that people are just too sensitive to see such things. At the same time, we do seem to enjoy our horror and true crime shows. My personal favorite was the debate over people wanting to watch the televised execution of Timothy McVeigh (aka "Oklahoma City Bomber"). We didn't get to, as the powers that be decided that watching a lethal injection would upset too many people. But on the news shows that night, they didn't seem to have a problem with showing 2 fellas in another country recieve a fatal IV, or televising footage from the bombing, complete with bloodied victims and dead babies.




You bring up a highly interesting point. I've always known in one way or another that criminals usually get more mercy than their actual victims but never really caught on to the fact that it's so extreme that "they" (whoever they are) are ten times more willing to air the pain and suffering of innocent people than the pain, suffering, and finally the death of violent criminals.

Why do Americans debate over seeing the death of a mad terrorist and not over seeing some 3,000 people die in the WTC for example?
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#36464 - 04/26/04 11:14 PM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Shiva]
Dracul Offline


Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Romania
The US Goverment should allow anybody who wishes to watch the execution to do it freely so that the person sees that the law is applied accordingly and the criminal gets what he deserves.

Pay-per-view is out of question - it should be free for anybody who wants to see it.

Also putting mony into it is like buying a ticket to a movie just that someone really dies in the end. It reminds me of the Roman Colloseum were people come to enjoy seeing other die only that this time justice is done and it's a little more civilized.
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#36465 - 04/26/04 11:22 PM It All Depends....
Anonymous
Unregistered


I would personally love to see a public execution, however I would only find myself willing to pay to watch the execution if the Government found more creative ways to execute the guilty parties. Its only fair that the guilty suffer pain as their victims did.

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#36466 - 04/26/04 11:26 PM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Shiva]
Dracul Offline


Registered: 03/07/04
Posts: 60
Loc: Romania
Executions made nowadays are quite boring because of these modern ways and also for the criminal is much to easy ...like just going to sleep ...no pain no nothing ...so where's the punnishment ?

I'm for the old execution methods ...like crucifing. At least the criminal has time to realize that he pays for his crimes, not just takes a nap.
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#36467 - 04/27/04 04:03 AM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Shiva]
Josephine007 Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Zero Point Field
no matter how flexible of working situation and pay scale I offer.

I can't sew to save my life and I was bumming about that the other day as I got a call from a head hunter who heard I had a security clearance who wanted to know if I could sew. They are looking for someone who can sew 'whole suits and a variety of pockets'...lol...sounded like one cool assignment making James Bondish get ups for spooks. And the pay was almost double what I make now. I KNEW I should have taken Home Ec

I've observed a trend, particularly in the younger generations, that goes around with the attitude that they are "owed something" by their communities. I'm not entirely sure how this came about, but it's annoying.

Oh, it is absolutely from the parents. That is the problem we are having with our youngest son right now. His biological mother has ingrained in his brain that school is stupid and he can get a check every month for sitting on the couch eating cheetos and playing video games.

However SGT R from Quantico has taught him a word called integrity (which WE have been trying to teach but perhaps it takes three days of boot camp to get the point across)...

I see alot of it too but I ALSO see it from the parents so it is VERY obvious where it is coming from. It just seems to have spread like a plague as the smarter more educated folks seem to have waited longer to have kids (or not have them at all) giving the dross time to create their own mini generation of loosers.

Edited to add:

I thought about you yesterday when I read this news piece

Violence Among Girls Increasing in US

It's about a 12 year old girl who was pummeled into a coma at a birthday party and the beating was encouraged by the offender's MOTHER.

One of the quotes from the article said:

"Leaf said the situation in Baltimore and other cities reminds him of the William Golding novel "Lord of the Flies": "We're seeing the effects of children growing up in a world without adults."


Edited by Josephine007 (04/27/04 04:19 AM)
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#36468 - 04/27/04 11:22 AM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
>As much as I don't agree with lethal injection being used
>for public executions the total cost with of the injection
>itself is around $87. A far cry from 14 years of having to
>bathe, clothe, and feed some child molesting, raping, or
>murdering bastard.

There are plenty of more costs involved in capital punishment besides keeping somebody fed and what not on death row. Most of it's in the legal stuff - capital trials, investigations, jury selection, etc. It adds up to being well more expensive than a life without parole.

>Also to make executions much more common place not only
>would it free up prisons

To make this work, you'd have to make the frequency of executions significantly close to the frequency of imprisonments. Even if you just kept the numbers to matching prisoners new to death row, it's still a big number. It would demand an exponential speed-up to the process. Sure, it's easy to say "just walk in there with a gun and shoot each one of them in the head", but to realistically have that carried out to the legal system would be quite a task.

>Those of us who have had guns pulled on us for no reason
>other than being different and still have scars from
>asshole skinheads stabbing us for being "fags" want
>nothing more than for those who live by the sword to start
>dying at the end of a rope.

Again, I have no ethical disagreements here. But I don't see any validity in the common arguments of "it's cheaper than keeping them alive" and "it will help free up prisons".
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#36469 - 04/27/04 12:19 PM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Josephine007]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
That article is full of bullcrap. It is media induced fear for sale. An isolated incident and the media explodes it into a huge nation wide problem. I am sure the majority of little girls are not violent nor are their parents such psychos.

This cases seems to be a case of stupidity on the parent and idiotic group mentality.

Around the country, school police and teachers are seeing a growing tendency for girls to settle disputes with their fists. They are finding themselves breaking up playground fights in which girls are going at each other toe-to-toe, like boys.

Where is their proof? I am sure the amount of violence for young girls is the same if not less than it always has been.

Experts say the trend simply reflects society - girls are more violent because society in general is more violent and less civil. Some say that the same breakdowns in family, church, community and school that have long been blamed for violence among boys are finally catching up to girls.

Who are their experts? Where are their facts? If you just do a little research facts show that violence is decreasing. They always blame lack of religion and an uninterest in the community.

And some believe the violence is also fueled by the emergence of movies and video games such as "Tomb Raider" in which women wreak violence with the gusto of male action heroes.

There they go again, blaming the video game and movie businesses. Looking for an easy scapegoat and who better than the entertainment business.

In my opinion this is just another case of roadrage. All media induced crap. Granted what happened to that girl was wrong and justice needs to be served but the media loves headliners and loves getting people's fears up.

Sorry for the tangent. I just get pissed about how the media trys to create misleading fears.
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#36470 - 04/27/04 01:26 PM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Bill_M]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Quote:

Again, I have no ethical disagreements here. But I don't see any validity in the common arguments of "it's cheaper than keeping them alive" and "it will help free up prisons".



Well spoken. And I fully agree. While it 'sounds' good. Those arguments just don't hold water.
Quote:

Sure, it's easy to say "just walk in there with a gun and shoot each one of them in the head", but to realistically have that carried out to the legal system would be quite a task.



It is,indeed,much easier said than done. No matter one's 'ethical' convictions on the matter, this is not likely to occur.
Satanism demands Thought in addition and as prelude to Action, and comments along the vein of the 'kill 'em all' school of (skipping)thought are evidence that this relationship is not being observed.
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#36471 - 04/27/04 01:33 PM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Discipline]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Anyone else remember when "Tomb Raider" was considered such a great game because she is a strong, educated, female heroine that little girls could look up to and inspire to be like? Maybe it's just because I only played the first one since the others suck, but I can't remember a time when Laura Croft used her fists nor did she ever attack a human who hadn't fired the first shot. Any violence in that game is purely self-defence. And I'd like to point out that they are too difficult for 90% of gamers to play all the way though.

But then again there has to be a scapegoat and this was a household name right?

DatheR

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#36472 - 04/27/04 01:38 PM Making "The Passion" work for this cause... [Re: Dracul]
Anonymous
Unregistered


You just inspired a thought that I think would work. In "honor of The Passion" we offer up a bill to the government in which criminals are executed on live television via crucifixion! Now granted, any educated person knows that Romans didn't use that method of execution on anyone but the worst criminals because it wasn't just a painful and horrific death it was an embarrasment to the criminal and his family as he is degraded durring the process. So obviously the story of two thieves being up there with "da man" is as bullshit as "da man" coming back in three days. If we can somehow talk Mel Gibson into producing it...

DatheR

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#36473 - 04/27/04 01:41 PM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Mr_Atrox]
Anonymous
Unregistered


How about this argument, they are being executed anyways, why not add some commercial endorcments to help pay for the costs, plus I think of it more as something to deter further crimes more than anything else.

DatheR

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#36474 - 04/27/04 01:58 PM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Quote:

How about this argument, they are being executed anyways, why not add some commercial endorcments to help pay for the costs, plus I think of it more as something to deter further crimes more than anything else.



This is why it may never be a feasible option.
No longer has it become an issue of justice.
But one of financial balance.
'Eye for an eye' justice might better be realized if the offender and victims(or families of victims) are allowed to 'square' these types of debts in a more private setting.
The execution of criminals,publicly or privately, throughout history has thus far done little to deter further crime.
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#36475 - 04/28/04 04:11 AM Actually, No. [Re: Discipline]
Josephine007 Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Zero Point Field
Sorry for the tangent. I just get pissed about how the media trys to create misleading fears.

Actually, as a mother of two boys aged 12 and 13 (going on 14) and a patrol officer, let me tell you I think this article was SPOT ON or I never would have linked to it.

If anything, the media tendency has been to DOWNPLAY violence in children...if you could ride one night with me you would probably have a better picture of what is REALLY going on vs what gets reported.

It's atrocious, makes me sick to my stomach, and is not going to be fixed until parents start taking responsibility for their offspring.

I really do understand where your rant stemmed from and until a few years ago I might have agreed with you.

But....I have seen too much.....
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#36476 - 04/28/04 04:17 AM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions
Josephine007 Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Zero Point Field
But then again there has to be a scapegoat and this was a household name right?

I will add my two cents here as I do not think video games in and of themselves are 'to blame' but unmonitored use and certain environments can combine with them to create some problems. Hubby and I do not allow the kids to play certain video games...one that comes to mind is Grand Theft Auto. While, as adults, we can seperate a game from reality...we saw what happened when our sons simply watched dad play it one time and we were appalled at the way they so quickley jumped to embracing the attitude. This is not to say Tomb Raider causes violence. But I would agree that it could be a contributing factor in some cases when you look at the whole big picture.
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#36477 - 04/28/04 08:53 AM Re: Pubilc/Televised Executions [Re: Josephine007]
Shiva Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 10/31/01
Posts: 2762
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
one that comes to mind is Grand Theft Auto.

That was the first one that popped into my mind too. Not that I have anything against the game itself, but I can see how young and impressionable ones could pick up some sociopathic habits from it.

Again, it boils down to the parents (or lack thereof.) I grew up around violence and creepy stuff, coming from a theatrical family. My first taste of it was when I was about five, watching my father get a bottle smashed over his head in a play called " Ten Nights in a Baroom ". I remember feeling angry and upset, thinking that some guy really hurt my Dad. Then, after the show, I was amazed to see that my dad was okay. He took me backstage and showed me how the trick was done.

After that, it became a game for me to see something on television or in a show and try to figure out how the effect was accomplished by imitating it.

Of course, my kid brother ended up being my test subject many times and became very familiar with the various shades of red lipstick. I have to wonder if he would have survived his early childhood if my parents hadn't have introduced me the fun world of stage illusions while allowing me to see the scenes of violence.

I've always recommended that if you're going to let your little ones see violent cinema, at least rent one of the SPFX tapes and show them how it's done.
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