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#367455 - 01/05/09 04:26 PM Re: Cruel People [Re: ArtAche86]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10568
Loc: England
> I'm trying to understand your point of view rev, I truly am. <

I've outlined my point of view quite clearly in this thread.

If you don't see it, then we'll agree to disagree.

However, what I am not understanding is the penchant in this thread for so many to identify with the lower members of the species.

I do not believe the rudiments of murder and crime are appropriately discussed here. But whether murder can be considered natural selection has been the topic of many a philosophical study if you'd care to read up on it.

Natural selection, as I have already stated, can be indiscriminate, yes.
_________________________
"u.v.ray is truly an outsider, yet he's also a member of a club that includes greats such as Bukowski, Fante, and Salinger"

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#367468 - 01/05/09 05:50 PM Re: Cruel People [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: WhiskeyBickley

Successful human beings keep others dependent on them - not the other way round. They use and implement the sevices of others.

We would call it lesser magic.


That is exactly true.

But, even among humans who have throngs of people who depend or rely on them, I don't know a single one who in turn doesn't rely on anyone else and/or doesn't rely on various things created by human beings.

I'm quite sure I get your point, Reverend. The weak perish--agreed. Social nets are illusory and fragile--true. This lady is dead as a result of choices she made, resulting from stuff that happened to her--absolutely true. The lady probably wasn't going to be contributing much to humanity--I have no idea, but probably true. Shit and Natural Selection Happen, and life isn't fair or just---Yes, but.

Now, never have I said anyone has "rights" or the like. That woman had no intrinsic right to health care or even, to life. I'm seeing it from a customer service perspective---so, my assumption is that any hospital that lets people languish and drop dead in the waiting room is at least guilty of negligence and incompetence. (To say nothing of how backlogged they must be for people to be there, waiting, for a day!) I think we should at least take interest when a hospital is negligent or incompetent, because those same idiots could be coming at us with pills and syringes next time around.

Quote:
You don't see lone wolves because, as I already said, animals kill off the weak amongst them.


And a lone wolf is a weakened wolf is a weak wolf is a dead wolf.

The social bond was largely the source of strength and the vehicle for survival. If you're a wolf, you don't usually catch a moose by yourself, after all.

_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#367505 - 01/05/09 09:13 PM Re: Cruel People [Re: TrojZyr]
Mr.Terrestrium Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Arm's reach from a Glock 26



Quote:
Now, never have I said anyone has "rights" or the like. That woman had no intrinsic right to health care or even, to life. I'm seeing it from a customer service perspective---so, my assumption is that any hospital that lets people languish and drop dead in the waiting room is at least guilty of negligence and incompetence. (To say nothing of how backlogged they must be for people to be there, waiting, for a day!) I think we should at least take interest when a hospital is negligent or incompetent, because those same idiots could be coming at us with pills and syringes next time around.


This is what happens when insurance companies run hospitals. Those with decent insurance get decent treatment, those with poor insurance or nothing can end up with sponges nestled between organs. The (further)socialization of healthcare under BrObama in the 'states will ensure this happens more and more, as Uncle Sham tends to screw up everything he gets his grubby fingers on.

Privatization, baby. That's where the good stuff is!

Ron Paul would've done this place right, but that's another thread.
_________________________
http://demonharris.blogspot.com

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#367507 - 01/05/09 09:26 PM Re: Cruel People [Re: gypsy]
gypsy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/04/01
Posts: 4749
Loc: Here
Meanwhile, down on the farm….

Hospitals have big financial incentives in recruiting these sorts of people in order to receive kickbacks.

7 hospitals in NY accused of $50M Medicaid fraud.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090106/ap_on_re_us/medicaid_lawsuit
_________________________
"All the truth in the world adds up to one big lie."

"Eternal nothingness is fine if you happen to be dressed for it."


Church of Satan

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#367536 - 01/06/09 05:57 AM Re: Cruel People [Re: Charlie R]
Darkahn Offline


Registered: 01/08/08
Posts: 410
Loc: Florida, USA
Once, I was watching The Dark Knight while it was still in theatres. During the scene where you are introduced to Twoface, a rather oversized woman two rows behind me (in stadium seating) began breathing heavily, dropping either bagfull of her large popcorn order.

She began pleading for help and saying she "wasn't joking", that she "wasn't feeling good". I waited probably a good two minutes, with not a soul in the theatre saying a word to, or about her, before I finally grew tired of her interrupting the movie.

Frankly, I didn't give a good god damn whether she was having a stomachache or a heart-attack.

If she had been someone who clearly looked otherwise healthy, or was simply elderly, then I would have immediately done something. Pigs deserve to die a pig's death.


Unfortunately, it took me about four minutes to finally get a manager in the theatre, who escorted her out for a medical checkup with the Mall EMTs. Interesting, to say the least, that she was able to simply get up and walk out when given the attention she oh-so-desperately requested -- and not BEFORE the manager came.

As the movie ended, and the next showing was beginning to seat, I saw the same lady -- apparently going to try again -- with another two bagfulls of popcorn.

That day, I decided not to pursue a career in medicine, as I once originally planned.

Frankly, the herd doesn't really care unless they're being told to care. And most individuals simply judge based on a particular criteria whether to care or no.

While it is true the hospital staff had a professional, arguably ethical, and perhaps legal requirement to attend to her, she had "cried wolf" numerous times in the past.
_________________________
Meine Ehre heißt Macht

Undercroft


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#367544 - 01/06/09 06:51 AM Re: Cruel People [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
MissMina1556 Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 03/05/08
Posts: 1386
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: WhiskeyBickley
>> Successful human beings keep others dependent on them - not the other way round. They use and implement the sevices of others.

We would call it lesser magic.


There once was a great man in my life, who was in fact, a defacto Satanist. I watched this man with awe and admiration. Everything he touched turned to gold. He was a more than successful business man. I would sit back and watch how he ran his business. He ONLY surrounded himself with the best. But, he was the Alpha Wolf. The staff he hired, very carefully mind you, did everything he wanted, with professionalism, strength and the employees were of the highest caliber.

He had them do the work. Also, they knew they were highly appreciated, but they did everything for this man.

He sat back and reaped all the rewards as his company became a multi million dollar company.

He got all the praise. But, in turn, he treated all his employees with much respect and appropriate raises. They did their jobs as they were hired to do, and they also went above and beyond the call of duty, because they knew the Alpha Wolf would acknowledge them and take care of them.

I learned a lot from watching this man. He had it. He knew how to use the world around him for himself only. Brilliant.

He was my father.
_________________________
YOU ARE DEEP, DARK AND LOVELY.


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#367561 - 01/06/09 09:36 AM Re: Cruel People [Re: Zaftig]
LightAngel Offline


Registered: 09/10/05
Posts: 1680
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Zaftig


It is unfortunate that she was left there, but it's not that uncommon, and not intentional cruelty. It was negligent, perhaps


I've worked in the same field myself so I understand what you mean, and I did post a comment about it in the beginning of this topic, but I removed it again because I didn't have energy to discuss what is logic to me.

In order to understand the complexity of this you either need a high IQ, or experience in this field - either as a patient or a worker....

However, I know that some people shouldn't work in this field, because a high emotionel Intelligence is indeed needed. - So things isn't just black or white.

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#367563 - 01/06/09 10:05 AM Re: Cruel People [Re: Mr.Terrestrium]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Well, and I recently learned that some insurance companies don't technically make a profit, and I'm still trying to parse THAT bit o' information, because while profit is hardly the only motivator in the universe, I still wonder what provides the incentive to provide adequate care.

I honestly don't know if privatization would fully 'do the trick.' I'd have to witness it for myself. Either way, the fact remains that many hospitals are backlogged, so folks do have to wait a while to get served, and that insurance companies often create this matrix of red tape that you then have to hopscotch through. Some hospitals and some companies are no doubt better than others, but even then, they still have their flaws and rough points.

In any case, I tend to think that being at ease with being leaves of grass in the wind is for the Buddhists and the Christians. If Natural Selection is the embodiment of justice and fairness, when it comes to myself, I want things to be monumentally unfair, extremely unjust, and absolutely slanted in my favor wink , and so I always do and say what I can in order to make that happen. Survival is the highest law, after all.

And, I'm honestly not sure why I'm on such a bloody tear about this. It's not like I've had any particularly bad hospital experiences recently. (I don't even think I've even been to the doctor in a while, come to think of it.) I think I laughed when I heard about this story a few months ago, because it is so darkly and bitterly humorous, in its way. Ah, must be a blue funk.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#367565 - 01/06/09 10:15 AM Re: Cruel People [Re: TrojZyr]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8845
I have always found the idea that EITHER government programs or the privatized versions of same, will be inherently better then the OTHER, to be UTTERLY ludicrous, for one apparently TOO simple reason.

There are human beings involved in both systems!

"Private corporations are evil money grubbing entities who will NEVER put the common good first."

Correct.

"Government programs will ALWAYS be bloated and ineffectual disasters."

Correct.

Any time I hear someone say that "X program" would be better off privatized OR governmentally run, I crack up and shake my head.

What is it about fundamental human stupidity and incompetence and greed and corruption that make people think that putting it in a different structural and conceptual framework will magically make disappear?

If a corporation runs it, the "consuming public" gets screwed.

If the government runs it, the "tax paying public" gets screwed.

I have zero "faith" in either system, although I do have a hard-wired tendency to think that "the invisible hand of the market" is a bit more real than "the spirit of public service", in the long run.

Human stupidity will ultimately corrupt ALL systems - it's just that some systems take longer and are harder to fuck up than others.

wink
_________________________
T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#367573 - 01/06/09 12:02 PM Re: Cruel People [Re: Quaark]
Mr.Terrestrium Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/15/08
Posts: 41
Loc: Arm's reach from a Glock 26
Originally Posted By: Daark
I have zero "faith" in either system, although I do have a hard-wired tendency to think that "the invisible hand of the market" is a bit more real than "the spirit of public service", in the long run.
wink


My point exactly.
_________________________
http://demonharris.blogspot.com

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#367600 - 01/06/09 06:25 PM Re: Cruel People [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
DravenX Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 02/10/08
Posts: 69
Loc: Lake Superior
[quote=WhiskeyBickley]>>

Some people are simply dispensable.


Unfortunately, ALL people are dispensable.
_________________________
Hellbound . . . . .

"We must believe in free will; we have no choice."
Isaac Singer

"I am a vampire . . . bow down before me. Yeah right."

"The atheist, by merely being in touch with reality, appears shamefully out of touch with the fantasy life of his neighbors."
Sam Harris

"The idea of God is the sole wrong for which I cannot forgive mankind."
Marquis De Sade

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#367862 - 01/09/09 03:08 AM Re: Cruel People [Re: Quaark]
MementoMori Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 07/14/01
Posts: 369
Loc: Minneapolis, MN
Originally Posted By: Daark
But anyway, that's about as likely to happen as Svengali becoming a greeter at WalMart.


I had a great laugh over this one. Thank you.

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#369086 - 01/19/09 04:37 AM Re: Cruel People [Re: Zaftig]
dopeoncandycanes Offline


Registered: 01/12/09
Posts: 24
Loc: Colorado Springs
So... the sad thing about this story is it was *really* funny in Joe's Apartment when the artist guy did it. Not so funny in reality.

Quote:
The truth is even a person who has family support, is aware of their illness, and manages it well most of the time, can still succumb to a random act of neglect when they are incapacitated.


What I've been skimming through pages and pages, eternally it feels like, to see if anyone said yet.

I don't think that anyone deserves to be treated or left to rot. It doesn't matter what someone has or hasn't done with their life or whether or not they are worthwhile human beings or scum. In this case, the only things that matter are the people around said someone. Maybe they will get lucky and a person will feel for a pulse; some aren't so fortunate and end up in these stories. I think that every person that strode past her is guilty of negligence and nothing more.

I would have helped her, because I know how it feels to combat a mental illness that messes with two of my five senses, sometimes even my actions and memories. I've also had seizures that leave me fully conscious and immobile for more than twenty minutes, and nothing is more terrifying than being helpless while wondering if you'll die, be rescued, or just get better somehow. I am "not normal" without medication to balance some things out in my brain.

Anyway.

Even if she was the fiftieth person I'd checked on that week and the forty-nine before her were all just peachy, I would have checked to at least see if that woman was alive.
_________________________
I would I could stand on a busy corner,
hat in hand, and beg people to throw me
all their wasted hours.
~Bernard Berenson

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#369136 - 01/19/09 01:44 PM Re: Cruel People [Re: dopeoncandycanes]
ArtAche86 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Cthulhu's Bowels,Kentucky
Originally Posted By: dopeoncandycanes
I've also had seizures that leave me fully conscious and immobile for more than twenty minutes, and nothing is more terrifying than being helpless while wondering if you'll die, be rescued, or just get better somehow.


I witnessed a 23 year old man have his first seizure of his entire life once in a training program at work. He was sitting there one second, and then he let out this awful wailing/choking sound. I laughed at first because I was looking the other direction and thought he was joking, until I seen his leg come up, and me and another guy grabbed him before he fell backwards to the ground. We let him down easy and it took him probably a good 15 minutes to unlock all of his joints and stop grimmacing.

Its easy to see how Clergy once thought people were possessed when this occurred. Scary really.
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