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#371140 - 02/06/09 12:14 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Enigma777 Offline


Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 291
Originally Posted By: WhiskeyBickley
The whole concept of a soul (in the religious understanding of the word) - just like the whole concept of a creator God or the Nazarene born of a virgin who could walk on water, rose from the dead and physically flew up into the clouds - is completely ludicrous and I do not need proof to the contrary to know it!


Criss Angel can walk on water! smile

I've seen many people who can fake wonderful miracles such as the ones you mentioned.

I want to learn their tricks so I can also prey and leech off primitive people! coopdevil

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#371143 - 02/06/09 01:15 AM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: Nemo]
Spelled Moon
Unregistered


Thank you for very nice reading (again.. smile ).

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#371208 - 02/06/09 03:29 PM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: Nemo]
fire_vixen Offline


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 90
Very interesting post, Magister!

I have one question though: are your memories the map or the territory?

It seems like you meant the actual territory, but

"What makes you "you" are your memories.Lose those and you no longer exist, practically speaking."

could mean that without the map one would be lost for all intents and purposes.

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#371213 - 02/06/09 04:27 PM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: Nemo]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10580
Loc: England
I believe what you are trying to say here, Magister Nemo, is...


whatever it is, you're against it. grin grin grin

And I would agree. wink
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#371219 - 02/06/09 06:16 PM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: Nemo]
WolfMoon Offline


Registered: 04/03/06
Posts: 735
Originally Posted By: Nemo
I just want to mention one simple thing.

Reincarnation is not survival even if it were real.

Reincarnation follows the following steps:

1. You die.

2. Someone else is born and that person does not have your memories.


Compare this to total amnesia:

1. You lose all of personal memories.

2. The person you used to be is "dead".


What makes you "you" are your memories.

Lose those and you no longer exist, practically speaking.

Reincarnation is nothing more than spiritual Alzheimer's disease.

Go talk to someone who has a close relative who has lost their memories to trauma or disease and this will all become obvious to you.

The people who think that reincarnation means that you survive death have simply not thought it through.

Reincarnation is death as far as you are concerned.

Oh.

Almost forgot.

There is also this popular idea that somewhere along the way if you reincarnate long enough (and win enough spiritual brownie points) then you will recover all of your memories from all of your hundreds or thousands or (think Carl Sagan here) billions and billions of lives.

Sometimes this is supposed to go on between these nasty little incarnations down here on Earth.

Sometimes you have to "evolve" enough to remember all those lives.

Well, look at what happens once again to you if this were true.

Right now you relate to you by remembering your life from birth to the present (really you only remember small parts of your life but we'll keep this simple).

Now what exactly do you suppose happens to your identity as "you" if suddenly you are also a milkmaid named "Harriet" from 1872, a soldier named "Jean" from 1918, a priest named "Paul" from 1066, a prostitute named "Olga" from 436, and add on your hundreds (or thousands or whatever) life memories.

What happens to a can of tomato soup if you mix it into an ocean of chicken soup?

You are so diluted (and convoluted) that "you" cease to exist.

Think it through.

Either way, reincarnation is exactly equivalent to you dying dead and being totally destroyed as far as "you" are concerned.

But then maybe it appeals to so many people because they really are already brain dead anyway! wink

Just think it through from a selfish (Satanic!) perspective and you will understand why reincarnation is the same as absolute death.

Simple.


I was originally going to reply to this thread saying :

"Waits for Magister Nemo's response..."

wink

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#371236 - 02/06/09 09:51 PM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: fire_vixen]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Rather than defining the "self" (map or territory), let's keep it very practical.

If you ever talk to someone who cannot remember their identity, such as a victim of traumatic total amnesia or a victim of senile dementia, you can directly recognize the tragedy and horror the person is suffering.

Even worse is to experience the acute pain that someone who does know the amnesiac experiences. The wife or husband or children have a still living body that looks like their spouse or parent, but the person inside is "gone", lost.

We may debate about what the self "really" is, but take away the memories and that individual self is, to all intents and purposes, gone.

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#371237 - 02/06/09 09:53 PM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
It is true, sir!

I have been accused of being a Marxist!

A Groucho Marxist!! devilchili

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#371238 - 02/06/09 09:54 PM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: WolfMoon]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Well I decided I better reply now rather than wait to come back in another lifetime! laugh

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#371240 - 02/06/09 10:07 PM Re: "No practical purpose" [Re: Hedonist]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12592
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I can't emphasize too much that even if you did remember your "past lives" that this too would not mean anything for your survival.

Drowning in a sea of memories of vast numbers of "past life memories" - including values, likes, and dislikes opposed to the ones you hold now - would just as completely destroy "you" as you are, as if you were possessed by a thousand psychotic ghosts.

This is why I also find no survival value in the pursuit of "cosmic consciousness", the goal of all true mystics. If you become aware of how you are "one with everything" then that speck that you call "you" - with all of your silly little individual likes, dislikes, loves, hates, etc. - would be completely submerged in ...everything else.

To "awaken" to cosmic consciousness is nothing more than to cease to exist as an individual.

Rather than spend fifty years meditating in a cave to shut down the part of the brain that distinguishes you from other objects in your perception, the same thing can be accomplished by just dropping dead (and staying that way, please. No cheating. wink ).

IMPORTANT DISCLAIMER FOR THE INCREDIBLY STUPID:
I am not advocating suicide, murder, nor any form of dying. I like life and so should you ...even if you are stupid.



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#371256 - 02/07/09 12:02 AM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
Now what exactly do you suppose happens to your identity as "you" if suddenly you are also a milkmaid named "Harriet" from 1872, a soldier named "Jean" from 1918, a priest named "Paul" from 1066, a prostitute named "Olga" from 436, and add on your hundreds (or thousands or whatever) life memories.



Dissociative identity disorder?
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#371257 - 02/07/09 12:04 AM Re: Olga [Re: Nemo]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Okay okay so when I was Olga I gave Hellofallhells a freebe..but Nemo..I just had to charge you for what you were asking me to do! blush
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#371282 - 02/07/09 05:34 AM Re: Reincarnation = death [Re: Nemo]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Nemo
We may debate about what the self "really" is, but take away the memories and that individual self is, to all intents and purposes, gone.


As always your posts are thought provoking Magister. This made me think about the concept of retaining the memories of an individual beyond what is currently possible by storing them in our brains.

At present it seems mostly to be in the domain of science fiction writers, but I recall some articles in Wired around the turn of the century that spoke of it as a future possibility that scientists think that they can figure out before the next century. To me that has much more interesting possibilities than thinking about who one was in a previous life.

For what it's worth I think that reincarnation as a concept serves two purposes which are more social/psychological.

For people with boring lives this offers an opportunity of adding some "spice" to their lives without the risk involved in actually doing something. Without any risk you can hear tales told to you about past lives (there are always people willing to do this - for a reasonable price smile ) which were much more interesting. Perhaps you were a general in the Roman army or the concubine of an emperor. Now your life is more interesting and you don't complain about your pathetic little life, since you are obviously just serving a temporary karmic sentence that will grant you something interesting in the next life.

The other purpose is in making a social contract, not seen much today in our advanced society, but something useful in the days when individual skills were needed to ensure the survival of a group of people. If you start out telling a person that he/she is the reincarnation of a great hunter or a skilled blacksmith they will (hopefully) start applying themselves to that task and in the end make a valuable contribution.

To me, that's the usefulness of reincarnation, not as a personal offer of hope, but as a tool to be used (or abused in some cases) to keep the social order or ensure personal gain.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#371314 - 02/07/09 10:17 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: LucifersBlood]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
It is no coincidence that the word "reincarnation" is very similar to the word "retardation". wink
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#371926 - 02/15/09 09:26 PM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Unknown]
S810 Offline


Registered: 02/11/06
Posts: 326
Loc: northwest
any arguement could be made for or against the idea of reincarnation, hence the on going debate.

Science however is not definative as an argument against it, it is just a different, possibly third view once again. I will explain this as though reincarnation is simply the idea that our physical body will absolutely become fuel for the next being. Does this mean that any knowledge is passed? No, so it an agnostic view i will take, being that we can not prove one way or the other.

On an atomic level however, we are somewhat just many guarks and atoms per se on a tite wave of frequency, be it a sound wave or light wave. since nothing so far is not comprised of these very small molecules etc., we must at least be able to say that metaphorically we have all had multiple experiences, none of wich matter. so as has been said before, maybe the best way to use this energy is to focus on what is physically known to the individual.

I also find it interesting that at death the physical body loses aproximately 21 grams. Is this the essence of the soul being lost? or perhaps just the passing of gas in a proverbial last word...lol
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#371930 - 02/16/09 02:01 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: S810]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
any arguement could be made for or against the idea of reincarnation, hence the on going debate.


Some arguments are just more retarded than others.

Satanism is very much so about championing life in the here and now-not some other place or time.

Reincarnation is NOT compatible with Satanism in any type of way, this has been adequately explained by Magister Nemo here, here, and here.

Just go to the grave yard and see how valid the debates for reincarnation are there.
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