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#370889 - 02/04/09 01:39 AM Introduction / Philosophical question
LucifersBlood Offline


Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Colorado
Greetings fellow Satanists. I have been a proclaimed Satanist for about a year now, after realizing i've had the principles my whole life. I figured it was time to introduce myself on the board.

As for my question...
I got a copy of the Satanic scriptures a little while ago in the mail, and like a typical Satanist, i've been devoting the majority of my free time to it smile
I had one question though, it states that this is our life, and our only life. I am wondering if this is the typical viewpoint of you guys on the board.
Personally, I believe in reincarnation. I don't think it's possible for our souls to know what we know from one life as a human.. and whether you read the philosophies of Plato or Neitzshe, it's reinstated..
I guess I was wondering more about the philosophy that states that we have one life. Is this more Christianity derived? and what are your basic viewpoints as to when and where we're created, and what happens after our life?
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"Today I love myself as I love my god: who could charge me with a sin today?
I know only sins against my god; but who knows my god?"
-Nietzsche

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#370890 - 02/04/09 01:48 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: LucifersBlood]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10555
Loc: England
>> Personally, I believe in reincarnation. I don't think it's possible for our souls to know what we know from one life as a human <<


What convinces you that we have a soul?
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#370893 - 02/04/09 02:17 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: LucifersBlood]
Enigma777 Offline


Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 291
Welcome to LTTD. smile

As for your question, ask yourself why do you think reincarnation is real?
Do you believe, or do you know--or do you WANT to believe?

There has been no real evidence to support the notion of an afterlife or reincarnation. Everything we have acquired from science tells us that this is all there is. It may be dissappointing to many, but it is better to know this early on so you do not get dissapointed when you reach your late years and realize that you have not lived the life you wanted.

So our lives are precious, we want to live it out as best as possible and not waste it.

In the end, contrary to popular belief, you will probably regret the things you didn't do in life, rather than the things you did.



Edited by Enigma777 (02/04/09 02:20 AM)

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#370903 - 02/04/09 05:47 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: LucifersBlood]
Noordenzuid Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 09/24/06
Posts: 194
Loc: Melbourne, Australia
Greetings.

From a Satanic perspective, belief may not be the right word. The after life is something we assume does not exist because it hasn't been proven and we really don't waste our time trying to figure out if it does.

By shunning such mystical predictions, we devote all our energy and motivation into enjoy THIS life here and now.

One tends to find in the spiritual religions that people are so hung up about what's to come after death, that they convert life into one long waiting room session. They live in fear that they will be judged by this big guy in the sky and directed to doom or bliss.

To answer your last couple of questions, science has clearly told us how one is born/created.

What happens after our life? Most will never know because they will be dead, hence our fulfillmnent of life now.

Lucky for me, I will be around for a long long time, so it is a pointless question for me to answer wink

HS!
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"For if there is a sin against life, it consists perhaps not so much in despairing of life as in hoping for another life and in eluding the implacable grandeur of this life."

-Albert Camus

"To passion, to paradise, to pain, to night."


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#370912 - 02/04/09 10:08 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Noordenzuid]
underworld Offline


Registered: 07/12/08
Posts: 26
Loc: Germany
Hi,

I don't get the point of the discussion. It's up to everybody to believe what he wants. For me, it's not that clear that there is no aferlive or reincarnation. At least we all don't know what happens if we are dead, and just because sience hasn't proved that there is a afterlife, doesn't mean there is none. So, maybe there is. But it doesn't affect me in this life, so why think about?

But, just out of curiosity, why do you think there is reincarnation? What makes you sure that you (your soul or whatever) are reborn? And how should this happen?

Hail.
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If you ask a question, you should never be afraid to hear the answer!

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#370913 - 02/04/09 10:14 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Enigma777]
fire_vixen Offline


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 90
"Everything we have acquired from science tells us that this is all there is."

Science doesn't tell that as a fact. It is a conclusion that many people draw based on certain evidence.

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#370918 - 02/04/09 11:03 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: LucifersBlood]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Originally Posted By: LucifersBlood

Personally, I believe in reincarnation. I don't think it's possible for our souls to know what we know from one life as a human.. and whether you read the philosophies of Plato or Neitzshe, it's reinstated..


What makes you think Nietzsche proposed belief in reincarnation?

Why would you believe you have a transcendental non-material "soul"?

Nietzsche was highly critical of Plato's transcendentalism.

....back to the drawing board.
_________________________
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"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
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#370920 - 02/04/09 11:21 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Svengali]
Evil_Eve Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 4234
Loc: 1313 Mockingbird Lane
This is simply an observation however, after seeing many 'do you believe in reincarnation etc.' type questions, I have finally come to the conclusion that some OK, many people simply want/need to be told what to believe/think.

Edit: To the original poster, I wanted to clarify that I am not only speaking of reincarnation but also of the many different questions of what happens to one after they die.


To 'believe' in something one is not sure of doesn't make much sense to Me. I can understand the 'hoping part' as many people really want to believe that there is something better out there (after here).

Best possible advise is to live everyday as if it were your last because it just could be. Instead of building sandcastles in the sky, or trying to get it right in the alleged 'next life', it would make more sense to get it right the first time. Now is the time.

















Edited by Evil_Eve (02/04/09 11:37 AM)
Edit Reason: Clarification.
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#370921 - 02/04/09 11:38 AM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Svengali]
Spelled Moon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 1691
Magister Svengali, it was some Neitzshe (probably neighbour), not Nietzsche. grin smile

edit: I want to say in general, that I just couldn't resist. I wonder, that someone didn't create a theory about afterlife, which would describe pink rabbit with lolipop welcoming us into the otherside.
That is option, too...


Edited by Spelled Moon (02/04/09 11:45 AM)

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#370929 - 02/04/09 01:55 PM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Spelled Moon]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6996
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Spelled Moon
I wonder, that someone didn't create a theory about afterlife, which would describe pink rabbit with lolipop welcoming us into the otherside.
That is option, too...


You mean, like a cosmic Bunny Club?
I'd sign up for that. On second thought, I rather prefer the real thing.
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#370933 - 02/04/09 02:10 PM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Spelled Moon]
LucifersBlood Offline


Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 21
Loc: Colorado
Just got all these replies so I will do my best to answer all of them:
First of all, Nietzshe believed that our world happens in a spiral, from birth to death to rebirth, though changing with every cycle (I don't have the exact resource, I heard this from a proffessor).. In his criticism on Plato, he criticized Plato's theory on separation of body and soul, not his theory on reincarnation. He does state, however, that Plato could have been holding back some of his beliefs because of the time in which he was publishing his philosophies. (this can be found in his work, The Problem with Socrates)
On the aspect of whether or not we have a soul, this is a question that no one can really answer for you. I believe that we are carnal beings, and our body is in connection with our soul during our lives. I do believe, however, that our bodies are mortal and our souls are immortal.. our bodies are simply the vessel that carries us through our lives, allowing us to experience pain and pleasure. If you believe that we are soulless, then my advice to you is to simply carry on your existance as a carnal being of the flesh.
In response to why I believe in reincarnation, there are several, several reasons, but I will mention the one that I think would best respond to your questions. So many people live their lives fearing death and the unknown. By believing in immortality through rebirth: the everlasting chance to learn, make mistakes, and try different things, has helped me transcend that. (some people simply believe in a nothingness that ensues death - while this serves their purpose, it makes life seem empty and pointless to me - what, if there is nothing, are we trying to achieve then? what is the point of our quest for knowledge?)
Mostly I was wondering, out of curiosity, what other spiritual views Satanist had of the afterlife (besides reincarnation). I've heard a lot of rejection of all beliefs, including an afterlife or a soul, but as far as spirituality in Satanism (some people may see this as an oxymoron), I have only heard of reincarnation.
_________________________
"Today I love myself as I love my god: who could charge me with a sin today?
I know only sins against my god; but who knows my god?"
-Nietzsche

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#370939 - 02/04/09 02:47 PM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: LucifersBlood]
Schadenfreude-6 Offline


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 120
Loc: MB, Canada.
Eternal recurrence is one thing but IMO it does not have anything in common with reincarnation (in the sense of being reborn). ER, at least how I understand it is the idea that the Universe repeats itself over and over in the same manner, we live the same lives over and over, basically. Where as reincarnation is the belief that if you live a "Good" life you "move up" a notch on some spiritual totem pole being reborn as a person with higher standing on this world for your "Good deeds" in life or some kind of animal (correct me if I'm wrong).

I know that I will die, I think that everything goes black, my body rots and I become fertilizer for the soil that I am buried in, for the earth that gave birth to my species. If you believe we have souls because we are "Alive" then do trees have souls? No one can answer this, we will never know so why worry about it?

Personally I'm not too concerned about what happens when I die, I am more concerned with enjoying my life, today, here and now.

Interesting thread though.
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"Inferior organisms succumb and perish or are enslaved. Superior organisms survive, propagate, and possess." - Charles Darwin

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#370940 - 02/04/09 02:48 PM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
Spelled Moon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 1691
I've searched for cosmic bunnies. smile "interesting" grin

I prefer real thing in presence, of course, too. smile

Just wanted to express, how absurd it seems to me. I am not expecting anything in the end; but if I should expect and meditate about something, what I can not predict, why not about bunnies...

If bunnies were taken into consideration by 'believing' people for enough long time, they could become the same "real" as anything else, for people. It is just about what people get used to.

This reminds me of one thing, in Czech republic exists a church, which is called "Vesmírní lidé" (Cosmic People), and they believe there are kind human beings living in the space and that there are also little lizards, who want to destroy people, implant chips into us, to make us part of "chip hell". (This was amusing people in my country for quite a time) And of course, to catch more people, Jesus has his important place there, too.
Not surprising at all, people accept it. So, why not pink bunny? smile

To some, bunnies may appear absurd, as to me Space People and reincarnation and any kind of belief in afterlife; and yes it is the same absurd, as it is all just human 'fantasy'. A.S. LaVey has nice part about that in TSB.

(It was amusing for me; I was reading TSB about ten years ago, and I had that opinion about religions and always thought, that those words were mine conclusion... and to re-read it after years in The Satanic Bible really amused me, as I realised it was Mr. LaVey's job with me... I always agreed, he just gave form to my, back then TOO young, thoughts.)

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#370941 - 02/04/09 02:49 PM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: LucifersBlood]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3401
Quote:
By believing in immortality through rebirth: the everlasting chance to learn, make mistakes, and try different things, has helped me transcend that.?


Immortality through reincarnation is equal to the Christian notion of eternal life after death. Both involve an idea of a soul that lives separate from the physical body. It also alleviates responsibility from your immediate circumstances, as you hold hopes or dreams for another chance, another life.

Satanism rejects that notion.

Magister Svengali best described the notion of a "soul" as what people commonly use to refer to their mental/emotional lives.

Therefore it enters into common usage and has a certain legitimacy in popular thought.

Quote:
(some people simply believe in a nothingness that ensues death - while this serves their purpose, it makes life seem empty and pointless to me - what, if there is nothing, are we trying to achieve then?


On the contrary, it makes my life seem fuller. By rejecting the notion of any life after death I am starkly reminded that my focus needs to be on THIS life, here and now. By focusing on an ephemeral notion of a "soul" you allow your life to be pointless.

And of course there's that whole, "Life after death through fulfillment of the ego" thing.

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#370942 - 02/04/09 02:53 PM Re: Introduction / Philosophical question [Re: Spelled Moon]
Schadenfreude-6 Offline


Registered: 12/10/08
Posts: 120
Loc: MB, Canada.
Bunnies are much cuter than space lizards!!!!
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"Inferior organisms succumb and perish or are enslaved. Superior organisms survive, propagate, and possess." - Charles Darwin

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