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#37719 - 04/29/04 10:12 PM Re: Three Things [Re: GoldenCalf]
Wonka Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 638
Loc: The City of Red Lights
Three things I would like to note:

1. Demonic imagery is not a necessity. Use whatever imagery you find most stimulating. That is especially true for rituals, which are based solely on results, not group aesthetics.

Personally, I find more beauty in the gears of a clock than a red beast with horns, but the latter is more entertaining.

2. There are many Satanists who do not actively perform rituals. Due to how effective they are and the benefits gained, one should at least experiment with it. Have you thoroughly explored that area yet?

3. Satanists are not without faults. What separates a Satanist from the rest of humanity, however, is the drive to overcome anything that stands in between you and your goals. It's not impossible to break habits, you just have to possess the Will to do so.

Try this: Unplug your Television and put it in the closet for two weeks. By the end of the two weeks, you will know which God you serve.
_________________________
Believe Nothing. Test Everything.

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#37720 - 05/01/04 10:33 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I disagree. Being loved will always afford you more power than being hated, regardless of other factors. It's called lesser magic.


I have to disagree, It is better to be feared than loved, because people are fickle when it comes to love, and you cannot gurantee that people will always love you, but you can guarantee that people will always fear you, and out of fear will grow respect, and eventually love, in a supplicative manner.

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#37721 - 05/01/04 10:58 PM Re: Labels/Definitions
Wonka Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/02/02
Posts: 638
Loc: The City of Red Lights
Unless they form a group and overthrow you.
_________________________
Believe Nothing. Test Everything.

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#37722 - 05/02/04 08:51 AM Re: Your Satan... My Satan... [Re: Old_Pig]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
I couldn't have said that better. Sometimes people get caught up in trying to be the "Ideal Satanist" and forget that it's all about what makes them feel best personally that matters, even if that leads to being unSatanic. (If being UnSatanic is what makes you most happy, thats what you have to do). And they forget that "Non conformism" means NOT conforming, not just with the mainstream public, but with anyone who doesn't meet your personal requirements. And either way, a lot more Satanists smoke, watch a lot of tv, smoke pot, and do any number of things that are unsatanic, than you'd think. I don't really think it's anyones business besides that one person, unless he's hurting someone else, or stopping himself from doing anything that will satisfy him in the long run, and not just the present.

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#37723 - 05/02/04 10:18 AM Re: Labels/Definitions
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Mr. Sum
Feared and hated are not synonyms.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#37724 - 05/02/04 11:25 AM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Dan,
You are correct, fear and hatred are not synonymous, and I will be more careful about making that kind of lateral connection in the future.

Let me put it this way then; Trying to make "everyone" or the majority of people you are in regular contact with "love" you through the use of lesser magic, while it may work for short term purposes, will eventually backfire in the long run, simply because attempting to gain goodwill from the majority will breed disrespect and derision.

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#37725 - 05/02/04 01:11 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: GoldenCalf]
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 115°49'00"W 37°14'00"N
Quote:

What would this person be called? A Satanist? I think not. Then what?





Then what?

What do you think?

They fail. Then they disappear. Or they go to McDonald's and have a Chicken Nugget. I personally don't care. Why would I? There are six billion people on this planet. They would just be another person like all the rest.

Satanism requires adherence to the dogma (hopefully by choice!) and natural Satanic attitude. If you don't have them both, then why bother? There are many other self-help philosophies available. There are many hobbies and things that can be enjoyed by a whole multitude of personality types. If your whole heart isn't in it, then how "whole" do you think the result will be?

No. I won't accept this half-ass shit. You either are or you aren't. Before the internet came along, this problem didn't exist. Now, with everyone's fake identities, they all think that they can "fit in" somewhere - anywhere - just to cling to the identity factor. I don't like it one bit.

Satanism, Satanic attitude and magical prowess are inseperable. Yes, we really do exist. If you have a flaw - fine. But a Satanist corrects it according to his own standards, usually because they simply know better.

Anton LaVey wrote that the degree of non-conformity alters the degree of magical success, and he made conformity a Satanic Sin. The archetype of Satan, meaning the "opposite", or the "accuser" is a natural part of Satanism and non-conformity, and additionally a natural part of magic. While Anton LaVey also mentioned that the most unsuccessful Satanists will tend to frequent the ritual chamber on a much too regular basis, this was a sane choice of pragmatism, but not a knock against magic. Magic is constant, throughout the dogma of Satanism, not just in the ritual chamber. Outside of the ritual chamber, there is also a natural identification with the Black Flame, notable aspects of the Law of the Trapezoid, and the very significant ability to shout "Hail Satan!" and feel good about it. I personally don't see how anyone would miss these things or choose to ignore them without wearing some kind of good guy badge that prevents them from admitting that they are a magician. This is why I find "magic" inseperable from Satanism, as well as the archetype of Satan. The philosophy all on its own represents the archetype of Satan, so if you understand the philosophy, then you understand and relate to the archetype.

Don't you?

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#37726 - 05/03/04 08:10 AM Re: Labels/Definitions
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Who said anything about 'everyone'? It was a question of choice between being loved or hated.You would certainly have more freedom, power, and luxury afforded to you if 'everyone' loved you, than if 'everyone' hated you.
Would you not agree?
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#37727 - 05/03/04 02:47 PM Re: Your Satan... My Satan... [Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
Sometimes people get caught up in trying to be the "Ideal Satanist" and forget that it's all about what makes them feel best personally that matters, even if that leads to being unSatanic.

That's not unSatanic. That is Satanic. A Satanist will make a judgement call and decide what is his personal desires.

Now if his indulgences become counter-productive to the point of self-destruction I think they should reevaluate it.

And they forget that "Non conformism" means NOT conforming, not just with the mainstream public, but with anyone who doesn't meet your personal requirements.

That comes naturally to a Satanist. There is a fine line between non-conformity and conformity when one is doing so to avoid conformity. A Satanist does not stand on either side of the line. He does what he enjoys and what leads to gratification (legally). He should ask himself this, "What are my motives for this? What will I gain? Will this be enjoyable? I'm I doing this for myself or to fit in and be accepted?"

If you don't get along with another Satanist, fine. Who cares. You don't have to like everyone who label themselves a Satanist.

And either way, a lot more Satanists smoke, watch a lot of tv, smoke pot, and do any number of things that are unsatanic

I think your missing the point. I may have a couple of cigarettes on the weekends, I might flip on the TV to catch a good show, I might be lazy for a day but unlike most I understand when I have reached the limit. I can get off the couch and do what needs to be done. Watching TV all day while smoking a couple of packs of cigarettes while there are other ways of enjoyment just a walk away is not what I call productive and enjoyment. Of course this is just my opinion but I just feel that there needs to be a good healthy balance.

unless he's hurting someone else, or stopping himself from doing anything that will satisfy him in the long run, and not just the present.

What is the satisfaction they seek? If it is just to sit on their lazy asses and stare at a TV screen for a entire week that is counter-productive. That does not lead to an enjoyable future. It leads to nothing. Hurting yourself because your weak and lazy is stupid.

Responsibility to the responsible.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#37728 - 05/03/04 03:28 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Nyarlathotep Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Nashville, TN
Quote:

I disagree. Being loved will always afford you more power than being hated, regardless of other factors. It's called lesser magic.



I believe you misunderstood the gist of the quote.

The gist is to be true to yourself. I do get what you're saying, but I look at Lesser Magic as being different than getting someone to love you. Getting someone to do what you want, yes. Getting something you want, yes. But not getting someone to love you.

There's a difference between Lesser Magic and self-deceit.

My quote has nothing to do with Lesser Magic.

It has everything to do with self-deceit.
_________________________
"I think, therefore I am dangerous."

"So now you'll see that evil will always triumph...because good is dumb."
-Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

HAIL SATAN!!

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#37729 - 05/03/04 04:03 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Nyarlathotep]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
When applied to oneself, sure.

But the gist of that quote is 'honesty over all' when not applied to oneself..and that I can't jive with.

I realize being loved isn't in and of itself lesser magic, but manuevering yourself into a position that affords you the most power, is.
Hope this clears up my statement.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#37730 - 05/03/04 04:16 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Nyarlathotep Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Nashville, TN
Quote:

But the gist of that quote is 'honesty over all' when not applied to oneself..and that I can't jive with.



Context is everything .

Quote:

I realize being loved isn't in and of itself lesser magic, but manuevering yourself into a position that affords you the most power, is.
Hope this clears up my statement.



Certainly. In this, I completely agree with you.

Hail Satan!
_________________________
"I think, therefore I am dangerous."

"So now you'll see that evil will always triumph...because good is dumb."
-Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

HAIL SATAN!!

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#37731 - 05/03/04 06:33 PM Re: Your Satan... My Satan... [Re: Discipline]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
What can I tell ya, some people want to sit on their lazy asses for the rest of their life.



But let's recap, shall we?

Quote:

That's not unSatanic. That is Satanic. A Satanist will make a judgement call and decide what is his personal desires.

Now if his indulgences become counter-productive to the point of self-destruction I think they should reevaluate it.




That was my point, it's not about making the next Satanist happy with your "Satanic Performance", it's about doing what will make you happy. (Getting caught up in the present and forgetting about the future by watching and getting stoned, fat, drunk, and cancerous all day every day isn't what it's about either, but that's beside the point)

Quote:

That comes naturally to a Satanist. There is a fine line between non-conformity and conformity when one is doing so to avoid conformity. A Satanist does not stand on either side of the line. He does what he enjoys and what leads to gratification (legally). He should ask himself this, "What are my motives for this? What will I gain? Will this be enjoyable? I'm I doing this for myself or to fit in and be accepted?"




Again, that's exactly my point.




So... thanks for..... enforcing what I said.

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#37732 - 05/03/04 06:53 PM Re: Your Satan... My Satan... [Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
So... thanks for..... enforcing what I said.

You're welcome.

Your original reply seem to state that a Satanist should seek out unSatanic desires. I was stating there is no such thing because what a Satanist seeks out is naturally Satanic.

But enough of the rambling and change the channel, American Idol is on.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#37733 - 05/03/04 07:01 PM Re: Your Satan... My Satan... [Re: Discipline]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
People who actually watch that show are just.... fucked up. Not quite as fucked up as the people who actually BUY William Hung's cd. But that's for another thread.
.....Perhaps one I should make!

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