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#37734 - 05/04/04 03:09 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Anonymous
Unregistered


When I look at the people I know of who enjoy the most freedom, power, and luxury, I see people who are both loved and hated to the extreme. Having true friends means having true enemies as well. It's all part of living a vital existence. I would think that if my freedom and power depended on how others felt about me, it would not be true freedom or power. Have you read "Human, All Too Human" by Neitzche?

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#37735 - 05/04/04 04:24 PM Re: Labels/Definitions
Captn_Thatch Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/14/02
Posts: 851
Loc: 11549'00"W 3714'00"N
Quote:

I would think that if my freedom and power depended on how others felt about me, it would not be true freedom or power.




Is power and freedom an escape, or an achievement?

If you're going to be free and powerful, you have to be able to command other people's opinions of you. If you can't get them to favor you, you have to overcome them. As soon as you do that, you'll have a new enemy. Then you start over again. The most successful leaders of history have known how to win the majority. The fact that they had enemies was irrelevant. Even the most selfish minded people had to win the favor of their associates. If they didn't win it with personality, they won it with money, a reliable history, or stealth.

In order for you not to be dependent on what other people think of you, you'd have to be living on an island with no other inhabitants. The only kind of true power and freedom you could have as the single inhabitant of an island would be a completely isolated and lonely kind. Would you hire someone, do them a favor, allow them to trespass on your property if you're opinion of them was negative? I imagine that if "power" simply means that you make your own decisions, then this could work. But if "power" is referring to any sort of influence over material affairs, hence other people, this desire couldn't be fulfilled.

The ticket to freedom and power is not necessarily a liberation from material affairs or obligations, but rather a command over them. The truly powerful person works harder and has more personal obligations than anyone below him. This is where the concept came from in royal families that true sovereignity means being "of service". Even if all of your obligations are to yourself, and you manage to survive well regardless of other people's opinions, what kind of power will you have? It is essential to leverage your position in the environment you live in. There is no way around it. You can let others master you, or you can be a master, but you cannot relieve yourself of every burden and every obligation. Everything is a choice. Making a choice is the only opportunity for power and freedom available to us.

There is an additional distinction to make, though, with all of this in mind. Is it really necessary to be "good" in order to win other people's favor?

No, it isn't. Not at all. In fact, that has never worked at all, except within the ranks of the lower man. The higher men who are supporting the current president, for example, know exactly what's going on.

Democracy expands political influence. Egalitarianism expands the market. Freedom gets the customers to keep coming back. And they do it, too. Boy, do they ever.

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#37736 - 05/04/04 06:31 PM Re: Labels/Definitions
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
.
Quote:


Having true friends means having true enemies




I don't buy into that kind of dualistic thinking.
An enemy is someone that wants to kill you.
A friend is someone you get pleasure from having around.
The two aren't related.

Regardless, none of that has nothing to do with what I said.
Think of it this way;
-What would you do for someone you loved?

-What would you do for someone you hated?

-Which of these two scenarios would you prefer to be on the recieving end of?
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#37737 - 05/05/04 04:19 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Captn_Thatch]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I seem to have fallen into this funk of not being able to explain myself very well lately, and for that I apologize.
I agree with everything you wrote, heartily.

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#37738 - 05/05/04 04:56 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Anonymous
Unregistered


-Which of these two scenarios would you prefer to be on the recieving end of?

In short, both. I love to be loved, and I like to be hated too. Time with good friends is great. Vexing, hexing, and hammering my enemies is fun too. It all goes toward a very satisfying life. And yes, I lose sometimes too, and I learn from it. And it's better to die at the hands of my enemy than die alone and forgotten.

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#37739 - 05/05/04 06:00 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Stanton_Vetalas Offline


Registered: 01/08/04
Posts: 240
Loc: Teh 518
No, a friend isn't just someone you enjoy having around, it's someone who likes having you around. Otherwise they wouldn't be around you all the time to make you happy. It's mutual The enemy hates you, the friend loves you. The two ARE related, and are opposites.

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#37740 - 05/06/04 12:27 AM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Stanton_Vetalas]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:


The two ARE related, and are opposites.




I disagree. We are culturally honed to divide everything into good and bad, right and wrong. I don't, as i mentioned, buy into it.
Love and hate are not oposites. They are two totally separate chemical reactions in your brain naturally developed for different reasons. Any corolation between the two is completely imagined.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#37741 - 05/06/04 12:31 AM Re: Labels/Definitions
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:

-Which of these two scenarios would you prefer to be on the recieving end of?

In short, both. I love to be loved, and I like to be hated too. Time with good friends is great. Vexing, hexing, and hammering my enemies is fun too. It all goes toward a very satisfying life. And yes, I lose sometimes too, and I learn from it. And it's better to die at the hands of my enemy than die alone and forgotten.



Nice little mini-rant, and I partially agree. However, again that has little to nothing to do with what I said.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#37742 - 05/06/04 05:01 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What will it take to answer your question satisfactorily? You say you don't buy into duality, yet you continue to insist that I choose between love and hate. they are opposite sides of a duality. You asked me to choose, I chose both, which I made clear in the first sentence of my last response. That's my answer, deal with it.

As for duality, it is not just imagined, it is how we percieve everything, and is a key tool of magic, especially for those on the LHP.

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#37743 - 05/07/04 01:10 PM Re: Labels/Definitions
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:


You say you don't buy into duality, yet you continue to insist that I choose between love and hate




My comment was about a specific quote. You quickly dragged this out of context. Maybe you should consider a career in journalism?

Quote:


it is how we percieve everything




Do not presume to speak for me; or anyone else for that matter. Are you aware of the concept of solopsism and its definition?
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#37744 - 05/07/04 10:37 PM Re: Labels/Definitions [Re: Dan_Dread]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Quote:

Do not presume to speak for me; or anyone else for that matter. Are you aware of the concept of solopsism and its definition?




Yes, I'm familiar with the word, and it's definition. Are you human? Do you currently reside on this planet? Duality is the way humans process information. It is the way our brains percieve and begin to classify empirical information, concepts, and feelings. It has nothing to do with solipsism, or any presumption on my part. You call yourself a logic machine, logic itself can be narrowed down to a binary function, ones and zeros, something and nothing, oops! another duality. Use your logic and figure out what I'm talking about instead of simply implying that I have committed a Satanic sin.


Quote:

Maybe you should consider a career in journalism?





Now that's funny!
If you're interested, perhaps we should continue this conversation through PM's.

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#37745 - 05/08/04 12:22 AM Re: Labels/Definitions
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Quote:


Duality is the way humans process information




I simply do not agree with this. Viewing things in this light is sheerly conditioning of the predominantly dualistic thinking society in which we live.
However, I do agree that this thread is not the apropriate place for this discussion.
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#37746 - 05/08/04 11:26 AM Magic Exploration [Re: Wonka]
Anonymous
Unregistered


What about the magician who has explorered and had great success with his use of magic. But that the success of such abilities and it's effectiveness have been major contributors in them feeling no need to perform another ritual simply because it's too much power to just use on a regular basis and should be harnessed until the moment in time when it is most duely needed. I believe that Lesser Magic is infinately more useful to the gifted magician, and that someone who has mastered a combination of Lesser Magic skills and has fine tuned them through years of practice is someone who cannot be stopped no matter what steps in front of them.

No I'm not bragging about myself here, it's in part actual experiences and in part goals. But after my last attempt at casting the results left me satisfied to the point where my ego doesn't need a reminder of the power I have at my disposal if the need should arise; I'm content to know what is there the next time I need it.

DatheR

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