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#378833 - 04/22/09 05:04 PM Why would a Satanist ever join the military?
Charlie R Offline


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 64
Self preservation is the highest law.

If that is one of the cardinal points of Satanism, why would a Satanist ever deliberately put themselves in harms way and literally increase their chance of death or serious injury tenfold by joining the military? Isn't putting yourself in a situation where bullets will be whizzing passed your head the opposite of self preservation?

I understand that people have many reasons for joining the military, and sadly many join because they feel they have no other option. But I doubt a Satanist would ever find themselves in that situation.

I'd just like for some one to clear this up for me.

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#378840 - 04/22/09 05:41 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Charlie R]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
Self preservation is indeed the highest law. In my opinion and from personal experience there is a motivating factor for joining the military...pride.

The fact that you have the ability and resolve to do something that few others can. Its an experience that's difficult to explain and like anything there's the good with the bad.

The armed forces trains for one thing...war. The possibility of injury or death is increased but you can just as easily be killed outside of a war zone. For example, I believe the statistics show that most fatal car accidents happen within 1 mile of the victim's home.

I hope this helps a little bit.

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#378847 - 04/22/09 06:19 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: inky]
Lyra Offline


Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 29
Loc: Middle of Nowhere
Not all military jobs are on the dangerous frontlines. Most military personnel work "behind the scenes".

If I ever join the military, I'll be opting for a "boring" desk job. wink And I'm a woman, so I can't even be put into actual combat.

Not all sexism is bad. witch


Edited by Lyra (04/22/09 06:20 PM)
Edit Reason: Typos
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#378848 - 04/22/09 06:49 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Lyra]
Azathoth Offline


Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 152
I've been thinking of joining the military for the benefits and the government job preference- not to mention the chance to gain greater independence. Whether I will or not will probably depend on the next couple years and my ability to pay for college.

Like Lyra, I definitely want a "boring" job if I do go in.

If anyone has any recommendations of military jobs for an introverted, intellectually oriented, right side of the synthesizer clock type, I'd be happy to hear them. I've often worried that my personality would disqualify me from really "making it" in the military but there is quite a variety of positions, so I don't know. I am physically fit and have a military tradition in my family, so I'm hardly a whimp.

As for Satanists in the military besides myself, my best friend is one. He's always been a fighter so it just came naturally to him. To be honest, I can't think of many civilian jobs he'd enjoy. It's a match made in heaven, even if it may be a little more dangerous than most jobs.


Edited by Azathoth (04/22/09 07:26 PM)
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#378864 - 04/22/09 07:53 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Azathoth]
Terrenial Offline


Registered: 03/17/09
Posts: 47
"The possibility of injury or death is increased but you can just as easily be killed outside of a war zone. For example, I believe the statistics show that most fatal car accidents happen within 1 mile of the victim's home."

This comparison is more sugared down than McDonalds iced tea. If you join the military and your assigned to the frontlines, chance of death goes waaaay up(and face it, the majority of the military is soldiers, not accountants behind desks). Soldiers are tools for the government's agenda. Most of the time they are swindled by recruiters and given this bs fantasy that you become some hero who's praised by everyone. Fighting for your "country" is stupid. Can you depend on your country to be there for you when your down? Does your country love you and care if you die in battle? Hell no! It just see's a soldier as a number on paper. I would only risk my life if I needed to, and maybe for those I love, not for some unreal concept of a "country".

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#378865 - 04/22/09 08:00 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Terrenial]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Your country is also where you live. And if it happens to be attacked or invaded by the enemy, good luck with doing what you want to do ever again.

It's not an "unreal concept", it's a solid fact.

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#378868 - 04/22/09 08:29 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Terrenial]
Dorian_Grey Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Virginia
You're not really taking the entire military into account. The Navy, for example, is a relatively safe branch. Risk to life and limb is minimal. As far as being "tools for the government's agenda", has it ever occurred to you the members of the military are using the government to get what they want? There are many benifits to having been in the military. Just off the top of my head, free school, health benefits, and VA loans are just a few.

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#378869 - 04/22/09 08:44 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Dorian_Grey]
Charlie R Offline


Registered: 02/24/08
Posts: 64
Sorry, I really should have specified that I meant a combat MOS or at least one that is battling on the front lines.


Edited by Charlie R (04/22/09 08:44 PM)

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#378870 - 04/22/09 08:54 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Charlie R]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
I'll let the serving members answer for themselves, but in general, I'll say:

In the context of Satanism, "self preservation is the highest law" means you always have the moral right to use force in self-defense, and don't have to lay down and take abuse from other people. We believe in asserting ourselves, not "turning the other cheek".

It has nothing to do with higher virtues like acquiring advanced skills, accepting reasonable risks as part of a career, civic duty, or higher moral values like personal autonomy ó all of which might be excellent reasons for someone to serve.
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#378873 - 04/22/09 09:22 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: reprobate]
Dorian_Grey Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 03/24/09
Posts: 37
Loc: Virginia
Warlock Reprobate, you're absolutely correct. What I was trying to say is that one could serve for all those reasons and still maintain self preservation.

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#378874 - 04/22/09 09:26 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Charlie R]
Unknown User Offline
Banned

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1511
Terrenial wrote,
Quote:
Soldiers are tools for the government's agenda. Most of the time they are swindled by recruiters and given this bs fantasy that you become some hero who's praised by everyone. Fighting for your "country" is stupid. Can you depend on your country to be there for you when your down? Does your country love you and care if you die in battle? Hell no! It just see's a soldier as a number on paper. I would only risk my life if I needed to, and maybe for those I love, not for some unreal concept of a "country".


Not having served in the armed forces myself, I do have a number of relatives who have and trust me when I tell you they were NOBODY'S tools. They knew the risks inherent in being a soldier, but they made a conscious and voluntary decision to serve their Country.

And while you may think fighting for your Country is quote unquote stupid, there are plenty of people out there manning the front lines keeping it safe for candy asses to make remarks like that. Think I'm wrong, then move Saudi Arabia and scream, "Mohamed butt fucks Allah", in some town square and see how long you live.



Edited by Ushiwakamaru (04/22/09 10:20 PM)

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#378880 - 04/22/09 09:50 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Terrenial]
NapalmNick Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2153
I have a feeling that all the folks on this thread who are at a loss for why a Satanist would ever join the Military have never met someone in the Military. Either that, or they have, and that particular individual colored a negative picture of the enitre Military for them. (Which is really stupid. Magister Sass wrote an essay on this idea called "The Church of Satan and People")

They're probably the same kind of pussies/dumb-asses who think that by enlisting you somehow get rid of your individuality. They look at the UNIform and assume that encompasses their enitre being. They look at basic training and taking orders and view it as "breaking them".

I have nothing but contempt for these hippie fucks.
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#378882 - 04/22/09 10:01 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Dorian_Grey]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
Sure, I just wanted to add that Satanism doesn't have a prejudice against the REALLY, truly, dangerous-as-hell combat positions.

There are many members on this board who have served in live, hot, bullets-shooting-at-them combat.

There are also other Satanists who have served in other military roles but who have made incredible sacrifices and taken risks of other kinds, without knowing how precisely it would affect their interests in the end. Theirs aren't my stories to tell, but I will just say that courage takes many forms (and the Church of Satan recognizes as much).

I respect and admire all who put their their lives on the line in defense of something that really matters: safeguarding personal liberty and showing the enemy what they're made of.
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#378885 - 04/22/09 10:17 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: reprobate]
Poetaster Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/20/06
Posts: 2334
Loc: East Coast, USA.
Quote:
I respect and admire all who put their their lives on the line in defense of something that really matters: safeguarding personal liberty and showing the enemy what they're made of.


In-fucking-deed!!!!

It's no secret that I respect and admire the men and women that put their asses on the line every day so that I may do the things that I do.

I can only speak for myself, but it really pisses me off when assholes disparage the military, police force, fire department etc..

Frankly, I consider defending personal liberty to be unquestionably Satanic.
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"People who harbor strong convictions without evidence belong at the margins of our societies, not in our halls of power. The only thing we should respect in a personís faith is his desire for a better life in this world; we need never have respected his certainty that one awaits him in the next."

- Sam Harris





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#378887 - 04/22/09 10:27 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Charlie R]
Branwyn Offline


Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 92
Loc: Montana, USA
Lack of perspective is a Satanic sin.

The only technically military job I've ever been attracted to is the possibility of working as a researcher at USAMRIID, and I blame it entirely on Richard Preston.

(But I'd want to get a PhD first, if I was going to do that, and they do employ civilians)

But other than that, joining the military has an appeal of zero, for me personally. But it would be idiotic (and sinful) to think that just because I have no interest in it, then it must not be a worthwhile thing to do for anyone.

I'm sure for other people, the idea of getting a degree in microbiology has an appeal of zero. Or the idea of getting married. Or the idea of being a Satanist.

So what?

If it doesn't appeal to you, you typically don't do it.

That's as it should be.

That doesn't mean that it's a stupid thing for someone else to do.

The way the original question was stated, it could easily apply to just about any dangerous job, in or out of the military. Hell, I suppose mine probably qualifies as a dangerous job, but I don't think of it as a prolonged form of suicide. It's a cool job, something I thrive doing and needs to be done. It has its downsides just like any job, so what? I imagine it's similar for many members of the military.

~Branwyn
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