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#378951 - 04/23/09 08:36 AM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: DCLXVI]
RustySpring Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/04
Posts: 1109
I think I love your friends. crossbones witch

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#378953 - 04/23/09 09:05 AM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: J. Favenris]
Torrent Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/24/08
Posts: 90
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Favenris


It still baffles me that a Satanist would want to risk his self-preservation for an "extreme sport" or civil work.


Satanism isn't a religion led by rules. It's a religion where each person interprets and applies the teachings according to their lifestyle. Self preservation is the highest law according to the Satanic bible. This isn't a rule, but is more of a guideline for each person to interpret on their own, and while it is the highest law in the SB, it may not be the highest law according to the individual.

If Satanists had to follow a set of rules to be Satanists, we wouldn't be Satanists...


Edited by Torrent (04/23/09 09:09 AM)

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#378955 - 04/23/09 09:21 AM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Torrent]
SomethingLikEvil Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 579
First off, I want to thank Favenris for the compliment in the beginning on his response. I also want to add that Torrent has nailed it on the head. It is up to each one of us, as Satanists, to decide upon our priorities.

I would also like to say that I like your sig Torrent, I am a huge fan of the Sith. I have the books, the figures (which I do play with), and am expecting a custom one based off a Sith Lord I created to arrive in the mail soon.
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#378968 - 04/23/09 11:43 AM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Branwyn]
Herr_S Offline


Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 76
Loc: Mordor
I don't think anyone joins the army because they want to die.

There may be several reasons for why a Satanist join the army. Pride, money, the action, personal development, revenge, to protect what he loves, etc. etc.

Sometimes you take risks that may kill you. You can't live without the risk of death. Actually you are going to die, some time. It's up to you how you want to live your life. Driving a car as someone has mentioned can also be fatal, does that mean all Satanist avoid cars like the plague? Of course it's not a good idea to put your life at an unnecessary risk, but you're always at the risk of death. That's why you need to go out there and live your life at the fullest, and some people choose to do that in the army.
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#378972 - 04/23/09 12:15 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: SomethingLikEvil]
Sideshowtuper Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 09/14/05
Posts: 464
Loc: NY, USA
Originally Posted By: SomethingLikEvil
Not to mention I have fired weapons that some people haven't even seen before, much less have fired.


Exactly, I can't think of a civilian job where you're going to get to fire a MRK 19


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- Samuel Butler


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#378974 - 04/23/09 12:31 PM Why did I join the Military ? [Re: Charlie R]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
First of all, in my country it's illegal not to join the Military. So that's a good enough reason by itself.
However about 30% ignore this law and get away with it pretty easy.

To me, like it has been said here- it's a matter of pride first of all.
The population of people who do not enlist to the Military is mainly made out of orthodox Jews, pacifistic hippies, weak spoiled brats and mentally/physically diseased.
Since I am strong, and I don't think my beliefs make me special or above the law- it would be beneath me to escape service.

But Israel is a very different example to most Militaries… if not all.
The fact that we live in a country surrounded by enemies and wars happen right at home makes the value of self preservation much more apparent when enlisting; if we do not take up the responsibility and join the Military, we will not survive. It's as simple as that.
I don't like tossing my own responsibility upon someone else, like many do.

Aside from that, I did learn a lot since I've enlisted and I got the chance to have amazing experiences I'd never have otherwise. I also acquired social skills I would have no reason to develop if I wasn't stuck in other people's asses 24/7.
I also know how to shoot, disarm and clean a M16 =)

My job is a desk job, although we do have women in combat units (the IDF tries hard to be female-friendly and even gay friendly). But I'm satisfied with my position.
I got to meet many officers from all over the world (a lot of American soldiers too) and work with people of different cultures and backgrounds.
As a person fascinated by psychology and anthropology, I find it to be a great job.

Of course, I had my fair share of rockets falling down around me during the last war, especially since I was on the Gaza boarder and witnessed it Live.
Here you don't have to be a combat soldier to risk your life, you just have to be in the wrong part of Israel in the wrong time =p



Edited by The_Lightning (04/23/09 12:57 PM)
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#378978 - 04/23/09 12:56 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Torrent]
J. Favenris Offline



Registered: 04/12/09
Posts: 150
Loc: Portland, Oregon
Originally Posted By: Torrent
This isn't a rule, but is more of a guideline for each person to interpret on their own, and while it is the highest law in the SB, it may not be the highest law according to the individual.


The underlined sentence made things much more clear for me. Some people choose to enter those situations, and for their own reasons. I see the Satanic quality in that. Sometimes self-preservation isn't a priority for everyone.

Originally Posted By: Ravenhael


The threat is VERY, VERY real.


The fear of this type of protest coming to America almost makes me want to join the armed forces.

Originally Posted By: The_Lightning
I also know how to shoot, disarm and clean a M16 =)


A valuable skill not shared by many. smile


Edited by Favenris (04/23/09 01:01 PM)
Edit Reason: Added a response to another post.
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#378981 - 04/23/09 01:26 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Charlie R]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
We've gotten that question here before. The answer is quite simple.

It is up to each individual Satanist to make a decision based upon his or her own motivations and willingness to take certain risks in exchange for some benefit. This is a religion of individuals . So you see how a cookie-cutter answer like, "A Satanist would never join the military because..." would be inconsistent with what Satanism is all about.
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#378985 - 04/23/09 01:58 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Charlie R]
TBaxter Offline


Registered: 04/21/09
Posts: 10
Loc: Minnesota, USA.
Originally Posted By: Charlie R
Self preservation is the highest law.

If that is one of the cardinal points of Satanism, why would a Satanist ever deliberately put themselves in harms way and literally increase their chance of death or serious injury tenfold by joining the military? Isn't putting yourself in a situation where bullets will be whizzing passed your head the opposite of self preservation?


Self-preservation is indeed the highest law, but not every member of the military will have bullets whizzing past their head. Like Lyra posted, most personnel work "behind the scenes". To my knowledge and understanding, those who join the United States Marine Corps have the highest possibility of being shot at. Why would they want such a thing?

"Nothing in life is so exhilarating as to be shot at without result."
-Winston Churchill

Originally Posted By: Charlie R
I understand that people have many reasons for joining the military, and sadly many join because they feel they have no other option. But I doubt a Satanist would ever find themselves in that situation.


Don't be so quick to assume that. Being young, inexperienced, and without a college degree, it's hard to find a job that's decently lucrative. Burger-flipping is an option, but I don't think I could bring myself to that level (no offense to those in that position). The Midwest sucks; if I have to go through nine weeks of intense physical and mental training which will ultimately craft me into a more disciplined and healthier person to escape, then so be it.
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#378989 - 04/23/09 02:38 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: J. Favenris]
The_Lightning Offline


Registered: 05/21/06
Posts: 1325
Loc: Israel
I don't think the law of self preservation is only about physically surviving, it also extends to emotional and mental health, and therefore remains the highest law for ALL Satanists.
If to you self fulfillment means taking risks and living on the edge- then it is the self preservation of your own healthy ego to do what makes you feel good.
I personally don't see this contrasting.

The only time where taking risks is unSatanic is when it's more self destructive than self improving, and when it's done with no responsibility or to escape responsibility-
like taking drugs or having unsafe sex with strangers.
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#378996 - 04/23/09 03:29 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: The_Lightning]
Branwyn Offline


Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 92
Loc: Montana, USA
I find it strange that anyone thinks of a comparison to the Spartans as a positive thing. Any organization that would routinely beat children to death in order to create an elite fighting force is an evil one in my opinion. They may have been the best, but at far, far too high of a cost. I can't help but think they were often the definition of counterproductive pride.

I'm inclined to appreciate the modern military more when they emphasize how they are different than the Spartans: such as it being voluntary, not robbing soldiers of their individuality, not glorifying death too much, etc.

~Branwyn
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The trouble with being a god is that you've got no one to pray to.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)

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#378997 - 04/23/09 03:34 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Branwyn]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Originally Posted By: Branwyn
I find it strange that anyone thinks of a comparison to the Spartans as a positive thing. Any organization that would routinely beat children to death in order to create an elite fighting force is an evil one in my opinion. They may have been the best, but at far, far too high of a cost. I can't help but think they were often the definition of counterproductive pride.

~Branwyn


Oh, I dunno; seemed pretty effective to me.

Times have changed, what was morally correct then is not so much now. It's hard to offer an opinion based on a time that I know nothing about, having not lived among the Spartans so many years ago. I am not saying we should use those tactics now or anything like that, but for the time, it was acceptable.

It's a hard luck world we live in.

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#379003 - 04/23/09 03:47 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: TheDegenerate]
Branwyn Offline


Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 92
Loc: Montana, USA
It's true that it was a very different time. Maybe it's just my stubborn sensibilities rooted in my own culture, but when it comes to hurting children, I don't negotiate and I am typically not very open minded.

My boyfriend gave me the book Gates of Fire and I almost could not get through it, it made me too angry and disgusted. His point was that they were not really children, not in that culture, they were soldiers. And that's true, to an extent. But the churning in my stomach and the epinephrine coursing through my veins didn't care. I just hated them.

~Branwyn
_________________________
The trouble with being a god is that you've got no one to pray to.

-- (Terry Pratchett, Small Gods)

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#379004 - 04/23/09 03:55 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Charlie R]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
The very same reason you would not join the military.

Each Satanist must chose what they feel is benefitial for themselves. "Rational self interest" is an important element in Satanism.
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#379007 - 04/23/09 04:11 PM Re: Why would a Satanist ever join the military? [Re: Charlie R]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1019
There exists in this world people who choose to use violence to resolve disputes or to protect themselves and their kind from such violence.

I am simply acting in the interest my longterm financial security.

I kill people so that I can live.

When war is no longer a viable source of employment, I suppose I will investigate other options that pretty much guarantee work, like a coroner or funeral director.

Perhaps by then I will have saved enough that I no longer need to work.

By the way, one thing I gotten better at in the military is surviving.
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