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#383453 - 06/03/09 12:47 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: ribbit]
TraceLines Offline


Registered: 04/28/09
Posts: 58
Loc: Upstate South Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: ribbit
English has needed spelling reform for a long time.


Why? So the common populace can slaughter a different set of rules?
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#383458 - 06/03/09 01:15 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: TraceLines]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
Quote:


Why? So the common populace can slaughter a different set of rules?


No kidding.
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#383462 - 06/03/09 01:42 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: TraceLines]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: TraceLines
Originally Posted By: ribbit
English has needed spelling reform for a long time.


Why? So the common populace can slaughter a different set of rules?


I've been quietly watching this post. Up until now, I haven't seen the need to respond...especially since the original post pretty much said it all. But, it has evolved. I now have two things to say.

1) I love the English language. I do the best I can not to mangle it. Growing up, I never once, as far as I know, studied for an English test, and I never made below an A. Grade school, high school and college. I never needed to, because I practiced the language constantly. I carried a book with me everywhere I went. I still carry a book bag to work. It is filled with books and magazines. While the language is constantly evolving, the idea of taking what I have always loved away and giving it to the dogs is sacrelidge.

2) The arbitrary misuse of the language is a form of anarchy. It demonstrates the futility of anarchy by attempting to deface something of worth in the name of freedom from constraint only to be replaced by another set of rules equally restrictive. Developing a language and symbols within a group is fine. We do that ourselves. To be proud of ignorance concerning anything other than your group makes you fucking stupid. It is living in a self-created ghetto. And, yes...there is even a satanic ghetto; but, that is another rant altogether.
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#383488 - 06/03/09 05:32 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: ribbit]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: ribbit
English has needed spelling reform for a long time.


I hope that never happens. As I understand the rules of the English language are proscriptive, while the rules for my own language for instance are largely descriptive, i.e. they are revised on a regular basis to reflect "how people use the language". This means that already words borrowed from English or French now have their own bastard forms of spelling and words that meant one thing in my generation now means completely the opposite because somehow the people in charge of setting the standard felt that it was easier to change the rules than to teach people the correct spelling and use of the words.

I personally suspect that English will eventually replace my own language as the language for the elite becuase science, IT and other fields use it internationally (and not in the text message form). People of like minds, thinking in terms of possibilities, will seek out each other using a common language. There are some historical precedents for this with French and German or even Latin.
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#383489 - 06/03/09 05:35 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: verszou]
Azathoth Offline


Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 152
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#383509 - 06/03/09 07:41 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Azathoth]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11535
Loc: New England, USA
Languages grow, and the companies who compile dictionaries debate every year on which new words to add and which unused ones to take away. If a slang term gets wide usage over a significant period of time, then I think it's reasonable to add it. Heck, we still have pop culture terms like "milquetoast" in the dictionary.

However, regarding the examples in the link, I think they should have waited a few more years to see if they were still in popular use.
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#383545 - 06/04/09 03:09 AM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Bill_M]
Warlock Atreus Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Dallas TX
Language has a gravitational pull toward a center because the primary goal is to communicate and be understood. We use a common language because we cannot read each other's minds to the detail that language can offer. As one moves away from the center of any common language, we risk communicating something incorrectly or being misunderstood. I find this thread interesting because I have conflicting thoughts on this matter.

Someone who uses the language in any standardized way could be considered operating from a herd-mentality. It is as if the very desire or need to communicate is a herd behavior. That is because, in order to communicate, one must adopt the language of a herd to be understood.

Someone who uses the standardized language well is also rare or elite within the herd using the language. They can be an artisan sculpting the language to their aesthetic desires. Alternatively and sometimes simultaneously, they can can use the language so unambiguously as to communicate exactly their intent with the least risk of being misunderstood.

Someone who coins new words, spellings, and usages stretches the boundaries of language and occasionally expands it. That person can be considered operating from a non-herd perspective when doing so. Alternatively, that person can be considered a member of the herd for not being able or disciplined enough to use the language within the standardized conventions.

To herd or not be heard? That is the question. devilchili
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#383546 - 06/04/09 04:02 AM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Warlock Atreus]
Azathoth Offline


Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 152
Not all groups of people are herds. Not all desires to communicate are "herd" based.

Sometimes people create new words or phrases that are witty or useful.

"Threequel" and "Lookism" do not fall in this category.
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#383558 - 06/04/09 09:28 AM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Bill_M]
MagdaGraham Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/23/04
Posts: 13369
Loc: Scotland
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#383598 - 06/04/09 07:01 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Svengali]
Rodim Offline


Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 239
Quote:
Rap culture really is the bottom of the barrel. If someone were looking to clean the human gene pool, that would be a good place to start.


No kidding.
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#383766 - 06/06/09 07:56 AM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: ribbit]
Skyla Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 495
Originally Posted By: ribbit
English has needed spelling reform for a long time.


Oh... You really shouldn't be wishing for that, believe me!

I went through 3 major spelling reforms in my mother tongue (German). In 1996 they decided for the first time that the German language is all too complicated and needs to be reformed.

That meant not just all dictionaries but all books in German had to be adjusted to the new rules. Teachers had to be trained so that they could teach people the new rules.

Even after years in use people kept being confused and there was still a debate about how useful the new rules really are. As a result they revised the new rules two times so far, once in 2004 and the last time in 2006.

The revised versions kept some of the new rules that were considered useful and switched back to old rules when the new rules didn't seem any better.

We now have those people that never accepted the new rules anyway and still write old style, we have people that write according to the new (yet old) rules from 1996, because they were willing to switch once but refuse to do it all over again and we have a few that really use the newest version (mainly students that need it for school or writers that need if for work).

The majority of German speakers doesn't care about rules at all anymore and is just using what comes to their minds first! coopdevil
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#383771 - 06/06/09 11:10 AM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Skyla]
Ozymandias Offline


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 36
Loc: Louisville, Kentucky
I wish we would take English that seriously in the States. We should be embarrassed by the fact that many Germans, for example, can speak English more coherently than most of the trash that lives here.

I usually have a live and live attitude, but when millions of people cannot form a complete sentence, or pronounce the words of said sentence, I become a little irate.

Maybe the downward spiral happened when we substituted Western classics for movie novelizations in English class.
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#383790 - 06/06/09 04:58 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Skyla]
Warlock Atreus Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 10/27/08
Posts: 61
Loc: Dallas TX
I am only just learning that Skyla's mother tongue is not English! I wish the majority of people whose mother tongue is English wrote English as well as Skyla.

There is an insult in French: "Tu parles franšais comme une vache espagnole!" or "You speak French like a Spanish cow!"

Skyla may become the inspiration for a new compliment:

"You write English like a German Satanist!" devilchili

Hail Skyla!
Hail Satan!
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#383791 - 06/06/09 05:01 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Ozymandias]
Terrenial Offline


Registered: 03/17/09
Posts: 47
You know after reading through your posts, I see nothing more than a whiny rant about your personal pet peeve that it bothers you so much about the way other people speak. Seriously um... who cares? Intelligence is much deeper than a surface level interpretation of a person. If your ranting about how Kanye West communicates, then why is such an "ignorant" person so much more successful than you?

Pretentiousness(arrogance) goes hand in hand with stupidity(ignorance), as Metalica would say wink (OH SHIT I MISPELLEDD METALLICA I MUST BE RETAERRDED!!). Get over yourselves

Also, the way you all bend your opinions to agree with whatever someone you respect says... that is not a sign of a leader at all, if anything its nothing more than ass-kissing.

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#383797 - 06/06/09 05:55 PM Re: Try actually READING the books instead of just looking at them.... [Re: Terrenial]
Thrax Orion Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: San Diego, CA
Terrenial, your anger seems a bit misdirected. Yes, this thread is about annoyance towards poor use of language, and as the original topic post stipulated: Annoyance towards poor reading comprehension. However, if you are of the opinion that internet message boards are never a place where talk of pet peeves and little annoyances takes place, you are in grave error.

The talk here - yes even the talk on this relatively innocuous topic, is incredibly well thought out and presented when you take into account the fact that we are on the internet: Home of l33t, /b/tards, and thirteen year old clan gamers who type with their fists.

The fact is YOU do not care about the manner in which people choose to communicate and present their intellectual development. And that is fine, but it does not follow that you should post on said topic to berate those that do. Doing so makes you guilty of the same nitpicking behavior that you accuse all else of.

Also when you engage in a friendly debate don't you believe it necessary to at least consider the position of your opponent? It isn't a matter of selling out your own ideals. It is just a behavior that shows basic respect. And when you are in a group of people who all agree that yes, we are selfish and egocentric by nature; It is necessary to observe respect at all times to avoid strong personalities constantly attempting to castrate one another.

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