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More controversy- Vegetarianism #382323
05/23/09 11:27 AM
05/23/09 11:27 AM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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The Satanic Bible professes that animals be killed only under the circumstances of self defense or for food.

Firstly, Is this simply out of laziness to stop eating animals?
I would think yes, but then also that the natural order is the strong devour the weaker as one would argue we do.

Now I argue that we have defied the natural order of predatory animals eating the weaker by it becoming industrialized. We no longer kill our own animals as we would as animals, rather we have machines kill them for us which is obviously unnatural and takes away the animalistic instinct that is our predatory nature.

Also, with modern food we no longer require meat in our diets as it can be substituted with other foods (there are countless kinds not advertised very well to protect the meat industry (more vegoes, less money for the industry))
So if we dont need to eat meat anymore, and the way we obtain it has become unnatural, would it not be following the Satanic idea on animals more closely by ceasing the eating of meat.

This is my argument, based a bit on opinion but more of my personal curiosity to make sure there isnt any contradiction in LaVeys words.
I am personally vegetarian (with small exceptions) and believe that if a person cant kill the animal themselves then they shouldnt be eating it, which is precisely what the meat industry capitalizes on, the peoples desire to have it killed for them.

Please help clarify this area.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382325
05/23/09 11:45 AM
05/23/09 11:45 AM
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Phineas Offline
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You are reading too much into this.

There are some in the COS who are vegetarians. Most are meat eaters, as was Dr. LaVey.

There is no controversy.


"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382329
05/23/09 11:59 AM
05/23/09 11:59 AM

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Spelled Moon
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Spelled Moon
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Here goes my question to satisfy my curiosity - those small exceptions, which you mentioned, were killed by you?

I used to be vegetarian, too (I won't give here my reasons for leaving it); and it's really sad to see some movies about through what animals have to "go" in such places as abattoirs, and there is different "crime" in it for me; not the fact that people use the meat, but kind of conditions in which those animals have to live and die.

When it goes about people using the meat brought to them from places, where animals are killed by others, I'd say that it's the result of human trials to simplify things and make them more comfortable... Human is "predator", because he can get results easier, with using his intelligence for finding solutions. I believe, that if tiger could design a solution for a chance to get food with minimum efforts smile , he'd use it.

Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382332
05/23/09 12:20 PM
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TheDegenerate Offline
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Satanism is about life in the real world, how to make the best of it and live up to ones full potential. These Satanic Sins and Rules of the Earth are outlines of common sense, and a great filter for morons who would otherwise choose to pursue Satanism for themselves. As it has already been explained here, to you I believe, by others, many of them have to do with following the law, respecting nature, etc. But it would be absolutely absurd and counterproductive to expect every Satanist to run out into the fucking woods every time he wanted a steak or a burger.

There is no such thing as a stupid question, (Well...) but it never hurts to study a bit first before throwing your two cents out there every time something even slightly eludes you. If you understand the context in which this literature was written, you will understand what is meant to be taken literally (MOST of it.) and what is meant to be taken metaphorically. In fact, in the very book which contains the bulk of the information, The Satanic Bible, this division is stated pretty explicitly!

What helped me to understand the material was multiple read throughs; really carefully studying the information at hand, instead of just a jaunty skim through or two, which would be more appropriate for a Danielle Steel novel than for an earthy philosophy advocating analytical thought and common sense.

Just a friendly piece of advice from someone who was once in your position. I had many questions myself, which were answered through careful study of the material, looking back through this very forum, and not only study in Satanism, but in all sorts of other topics, while keeping the Satanic canon in mind. To this day, I might have only posted one or two questions that I truly felt I could not find an answer for myself, and the research was more rewarding than any hand-holding could have ever been. Apart from answering the questions you currently have, you will find yourself finding answers to so much more than that, and you will have a sense of pride that you were able to do so without the handout.

I want to say, I am really not trying to be rude here, you do seem like someone who is quite interested in how this all operates, and though you will find over time that it is all quite straightforward, the information can be daunting at first.

http://www.churchofsatan.com has plenty of resources available to further your study.

The Satanic Bible, The Satanic Witch, The Satanic Rituals, The Devils Notebook, Satan Speaks!, The Satanic Scriptures by Magus Gilmore, The Church of Satan (if you can find it!) by Blanche Barton, The Secret Life of a Satanist are all considered "Satanic canon" by Magister Svengali in his new book, Essays in Satanism (which is also excellent.) Bearing the Devils Mark by Magister Paradise, The Fire from Within by Magister Nemo, etc, etc...

Study well, have fun, and enjoy. You would be hard pressed not to find your answers within this myriad of helpful material, now, and in the future.

HS!

Last edited by Phosis; 05/23/09 12:20 PM.
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: ] #382333
05/23/09 12:20 PM
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SomethingLikEvil Offline
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My "arguement" for eating meat (had 2 steaks for lunch today) is that by not taking home that rack of ribs or steak and eating it, there is one more rack of ribs or steak left to potentially go bad, and the animal would have been killed for nothing.

It is likely a flawed reason, but I do like the thought. Think of how much meat is thrown away because it goes bad from not being bought.


Resigned -- again.
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: SomethingLikEvil] #382335
05/23/09 12:27 PM
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TheDegenerate Offline
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Originally Posted By: SomethingLikEvil
My "arguement" for eating meat (had 2 steaks for lunch today) is that by not taking home that rack of ribs or steak and eating it, there is one more rack of ribs or steak left to potentially go bad, and the animal would have been killed for nothing.

It is likely a flawed reason, but I do like the thought. Think of how much meat is thrown away because it goes bad from not being bought.


I like your thinking, sir.

So it is my civic duty, in a sense, to go ahead and barbecue this weekend!! crossbones

Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: ] #382338
05/23/09 12:30 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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I read into things as I should. As I was to believe Satan was the accuser In the words of satanic philosophy. The accuser, challenger. Do not say I read to much into this for I am doing as this philosophy logically encourages, and by that statement you discourage me for doing so.

Thank you Spelled moon you make a valid argument. The exceptions i point out are the small amounts of seafood i eat. Prawns oysters and the like. I cannot say I have killed one myself that i can remember but I feel quite capable of ending the life of an oyster.
I would agree with your argument on making things more efficient but that leaves open the question: Have we made things efficient to the point of unnatural in the sense that an animal in the wild will at some point in its life kill its own food?

Can the next person please go through each one of my questions and refute all of my arguments. Only one has really been dealt with now. I do not doubt the variance of vegoes to omnivores in satanism but was the idea of kill for food put forward out of sheer laziness to stop eating meat or (more likely) that we are still reduced to animals and eat others as such. Interesting thought: could we not all be herbivores? animals may be herbivores and meat i pointed out isnt a necessity as such.



*Sorry i posted this after Spelled moon's post, i shall now read the ones after that

Last edited by Atralux Lucis; 05/23/09 12:31 PM.

Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: TheDegenerate] #382340
05/23/09 12:40 PM
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SomethingLikEvil Offline
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But of course it is! Why else would we still have incisors, canines, and first and second premolars if not to sink it into a nice rare steak?


Resigned -- again.
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382341
05/23/09 12:43 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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I once agreed with the idea of looking for answers myself (by not asking others)
The major flaw in that is ALL information comes from others, so instead of bothering with reading something or reading a book a few more times and contemplating it, I can quite easily ask you people who all have, what i would think, a better grasp of the ideas than I. I understand most of it, majority, but I always question the smallest of things and so must find ways of getting the answers, and as Spelled moon stated before on using intelligence for efficiency, I find the most intelligent and efficient way of getting the answer is asking a large group of people who understand the area.

Yes it is all pretty straight forward in the Satanic Bible, but can anyone tell me why he says the matters on animals? He didnt say that now did he? why can we kill animals for food? And including all the arguments I made, should we be killing them?
And can we not be animals in herbivores and so retain our animal nature whilst sparing the animals we respect as the instinct we admire?


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382342
05/23/09 12:46 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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I could make endless arguments regarding the biological origins of our carnivorous side but its not really the point.
We dont need to eat meat so let us stick with our needs rather than proving we are naturally made to eat meat.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382343
05/23/09 12:47 PM
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TheDegenerate Offline
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Originally Posted By: Atralux Lucis
I once agreed with the idea of looking for answers myself (by not asking others)
The major flaw in that is ALL information comes from others, so instead of bothering with reading something or reading a book a few more times and contemplating it, I can quite easily ask you people who all have, what i would think, a better grasp of the ideas than I.


Right there, I'm finished with you.

You think you know enough to go ahead and lob a LaVey quote on your profile, and talk about how answers are essentially owed to you, and complain that no one wants to bother refuting your silly ideas, yet you haven't even studied enough to understand WHY it is ESSENTIAL that you find the information out for yourself.

I'd recommend reading an essay by Magus Gilmore titled "Intellectual Black Holes". And no, I am not going to waste anymore of my time by giving you the gist of it. skull

Good-bye.

Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: TheDegenerate] #382344
05/23/09 12:59 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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I think he/you misunderstand my meaning of looking for answers myself. I am looking for answers myself. No person in the world unless a hermit can honestly say they look for answer themselves.

I am asking a question based on the information of another and Im asking for the information people here shall give me. Information always comes from another and right now I am obtaining information from a source known as people which is obviously how all evolution happens otherwise every human being would start from scratch.

I dont believe answers are owed to me, I wont say I demand them but I would like them as is why anyone asks a question. This is an Elenchus, which is a philosophical tool made by Socrates that involves arguing until we reach a logical conclusion that makes sense to all. In this case Im hoping you will all make it clear that this point I have made isnt a contradiction on LaVey's part.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382345
05/23/09 01:01 PM
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This issue has been debated to death, and it all comes down to personal taste.

I find there nothing to be un-Satanic about either diet, but for me it seems to be a more logical idea to be vegetarian due to health benefits. But what do I know, I don't want to debate the issue.

But whatever, eat what you like. It's the spiritualists that need to cut things out of their diet because of religious reasons.

Last edited by Wolf Landon; 05/23/09 01:01 PM.
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382346
05/23/09 01:03 PM
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Or, you can read a book. There really is no difference between that and asking on a forum, except the use of paper, but I am sure you don't use it because we have the Internet and it needlessly kills trees.


Resigned -- again.
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382347
05/23/09 01:07 PM
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TheDegenerate Offline
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Pretty pointless to even ATTEMPT a debate on an issue when you haven't even read and absorbed the basic source material. It helps to have a substantial argument as well as strong points based on your knowledge of the material before doing so.

Why did Anton LaVey say not to harm animals?

Probably because it is COMMON SENSE not to do something that is not only inherently POINTLESS, but completely STUPID and against the law, as well! I'm sure you must at least be aware of the fact that there are IDIOTS out there who think that sacrificing animals will bring them super powers. Would it not be intelligent and rational in a religion called Satanism to differentiate oneself from those slack-jawed Fliparoos? It's very crystal clear that Anton LaVey had the prevention of animal abuse in mind when he wrote that rule.

Sweet jesus...

Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: SomethingLikEvil] #382348
05/23/09 01:16 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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As I have stated before I have read the book enough times to raise this issue in confidence that the answer is not in the book.
(and books arent a needless killing of trees, unless they are those silly picture story books for children)

My debate is not on whether eating meat is right or wrong, nor about whether satanists do it or not, or whether it is moral for a satanist to do it.

The issue is whether Killing an animal for food is actually properly in the philosophy considering the unnaturalism it has been made into.

Rule #10- Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food

Exact words. Now the killers of the animals are not eating them. They are selling them to others to eat and therefore disobeying that rule. We (meaning everyone who eats meat, not including me) eat the meat and therefore support the disobeyal of that rule.
We may not directly disobey it as we are only eating the meat put forward but they are and we are supporting and continuing that idea. In some way that rule must be interpreted to make it fair for people. I think perhaps the requirement that all peoples kill one animal of each species they plan on eating (pretty extreme and a little off my point but that is a fair solution)

Im sorry if Im annoying people with my arguing but thats what I do and thats what the Satanic philosophy inspires peoples to do anyway, that is argue and challenge things.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382350
05/23/09 01:27 PM
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tekku Offline
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Reading & understanding are two different things.
What part of meat is food does not make sense to you?

I don't see your posts being anything but shit-disturbing. Also, what is all this "We" business?
Each Satanist is an individual. Their "Morals" are theirs alone.

The answer to all of this is "Responsibility to the Responsible."

rip skull


That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: tekku] #382353
05/23/09 01:35 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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We meaning humans obviously. You cannot say you alone eat meat when there is a large collective of people that do so.
Indeed their morals are there own but I dont see how that has relevance to this argument. Responsibility has little to do with this either for this isnt an individual thing at all, itsa a conceptual thing and clarifying this area.
Meat as food is not in question either, its the idea of its place in this philosophy and how we obtain it.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: TheDegenerate] #382355
05/23/09 01:41 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Phosis
Pretty pointless to even ATTEMPT a debate on an issue when you haven't even read and absorbed the basic source material. It helps to have a substantial argument as well as strong points based on your knowledge of the material before doing so.

Why did Anton LaVey say not to harm animals?

Probably because it is COMMON SENSE not to do something that is not only inherently POINTLESS, but completely STUPID and against the law, as well! I'm sure you must at least be aware of the fact that there are IDIOTS out there who think that sacrificing animals will bring them super powers. Would it not be intelligent and rational in a religion called Satanism to differentiate oneself from those slack-jawed Fliparoos? It's very crystal clear that Anton LaVey had the prevention of animal abuse in mind when he wrote that rule.

Sweet jesus...





Thank you for finally making a very valid and relevant point.

Be that as it may, the wording used still leaves debate. I agree that is probably very much the case but still I have made arguments that move away from that to the actual wording used and concept idea.
His original intention now is not in question.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382356
05/23/09 01:43 PM
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In my opinion from my short time of study of the Satanic way of life, I've come to this conclusion. Satanism is more about responsible indulgence and enjoying life to the fullest than it is about following any specific rule. That means that if enjoying a steak makes me happier than complaining that a person enjoying a steak didn't kill that animal himself, I'm more in tune with the Satanic idea.

Satanism is like playing guitar or a martial art, learn the rules, study hard, then just follow your instincts.


The Absence of God will bring you comfort. - Jenny Lewis

There is a point in which empirical evidence outweighs your faith. It is then when you must chose to open your eyes, or close them. - Diwanna
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Diwanna] #382357
05/23/09 01:46 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: diwanna
In my opinion from my short time of study of the Satanic way of life, I've come to this conclusion. Satanism is more about responsible indulgence and enjoying life to the fullest than it is about following any specific rule. That means that if enjoying a steak makes me happier than complaining that a person enjoying a steak didn't kill that animal himself, I'm more in tune with the Satanic idea.

Satanism is like playing guitar or a martial art, learn the rules, study hard, then just follow your instincts.



I agree but that doesnt actually answer the issue. The issue is on LaVeys words and the concept they represent. No matter how irrelevant this issue is to a satanists life I think it is still an issue that needs addressing, and people continuously seem to be moving around it in this thread. Please focus on the issue I have stated.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382358
05/23/09 01:47 PM
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TheDegenerate Offline
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It's too bad that your own lack of common sense failed to prove sufficient enough to answer your question, and that it took you TWO PAGES to finally get the point.

You do understand that this forum is for practicing Satanists, and is NOT a debate club, I hope? There are plenty of forums out there for would-be knob "philosophers" to endlessly argue their way out of paper bags that you might enjoy a lot more.

Another friendly suggestion.

Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: TheDegenerate] #382360
05/23/09 01:57 PM
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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I think you just wont accept the imperfection in LaVey's 10th rule.

I have pointed out a crack in the philosophy and instead of trying to set it out nice and clear you have worked around it by simply implying it is a stupid question.

What intrigues me the most is that I have accused and challenged the philosophy (that i myself follow) and now you refuse to argue it back, rather you incessantly imply the futility of the question.
If you cannot properly answer my argument then you cannot properly defend this religion. Or perhaps its a little disconcerting to find I have pointed a elaborate hole in the philosophy we follow.

If you find this whole thing pointless then why do you still post in this thread? Perhaps you do have some need to put down this argument ive made but dont have the ability to put it down legitimately....


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382361
05/23/09 02:02 PM
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There is no hole in the philosophy. The only hole is your lack of understanding.

Goodbye skull rip


That is not dead which can eternal lie,
And with strange aeons even death may die
~H.P. Lovecraft~

La bonne cuisine est la base du véritable bonheur ~Escoffier~

Church of Satan
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382362
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Originally Posted By: Atralux Lucis
Or perhaps its a little disconcerting to find I have pointed a elaborate hole in the philosophy we follow.


No, I find it insane and pretentious that you feel you have somehow uncovered some great secret behind Satanism, which many members here have practiced for their ENTIRE LIVES, a philosophy which is been around for over FORTY YEARS, while at the same time, you haven't even put enough time or effort in yourself to read (understand) all of the fucking source material.

Such a clear cut rule does not need defense. You are making yourself out to be an idiot, and your own posts prove what a miserable laughing stock you are.

That being said, I think this conversation is over. smile

Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: TheDegenerate] #382364
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Atralux Lucis Offline OP
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There is no great secret. I understand perfectly what I am talking about because it is only one sentence that is in question. I fail to see what you think the whole 40 year old Satanic Philosophy has to do with this issue.

Im sure LaVey would have been thought to have little common sense to create a Church of Satan. La Voisin was probably thought insane for practicing a black mass in a christian era. All new thought goes into what people think is crazy and that is exactly how we evolve.

If this is such an easy issue for you to resolve why havent you done so already. If you cant then there is indeed, a hole in this philosophy but not intentional but an accidental one in the wording of one sentence. I personally would still have a problem with that, but i am a perfectionist.

No argument is stupid. Unless you have some sort of pious judgment on the legitimacy of an argument. I say again that if this argument was stupid then obviously you would have settled it and persuaded me already with a proper argument so we wouldnt have to suffered its stupidity any longer. You havent therefore it isnt stupid and Im not an idiot.

I truly find your arguing ability is quite poor, i would like to see this issue settled and didnt particularly want some big long debate on its merit as an issue.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382365
05/23/09 02:18 PM
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Quote:
The Satanic Bible professes that animals be killed only under the circumstances of self defense or for food.


The purpose of this sentence is to distance Satanists from those flipparoos (Thank you, Ygraine) who think Satan is real and who would be inclined to make animal sacrifices to said imaginary fiend. It's not a prohibition on eating meat.

You obviously don't get it.


Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382366
05/23/09 02:18 PM
05/23/09 02:18 PM

S
Spelled Moon
Unregistered
Spelled Moon
Unregistered
S



You mentioned, that this way of getting meat is not natural... Because people don't kill animals, each with own hands. I'd say, that nothing on Earth is unnatural...
The tools made by people are natural - made of natural materials - including ones designed to handle meat... Any invention is natural, because it is made by people (natural beings), while using natural resources.

Also the processes invented by natural people; the processes, which really make things easier (like killing animals for food on specialized places) are completely natural.

People in meat industry are working with meat for food. If there wasn't demand, there wouldn't be a company doing it. Nobody wants to be in deficit, so it seems that the meat sells => someone eats it. It's natural business.

I think, that the fact, that you pay for the meat from killed animal, means that they are killed for the purpose of eating, so imo there is no contradiction with the rule.

Natural doesn't necessarily mean primitive.

Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: LKRice] #382369
05/23/09 02:21 PM
05/23/09 02:21 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 35
Australia
Atralux Lucis Offline OP
Atralux Lucis  Offline OP

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 35
Australia
I never said it was a prohibition on eating meat. You obviously dont get my position.

We already reached a conclusion about the intention of the rule but thats not the issue anymore. Please read through the other posts and then make an argument. (not meaning to be rude, though that sounded a bit rude)


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382372
05/23/09 02:24 PM
05/23/09 02:24 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 35
Australia
Atralux Lucis Offline OP
Atralux Lucis  Offline OP

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 35
Australia
Thank you again Spelled Moon. You have settled that argument.

Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.


Now what about the fact it says for your food. Now see the killers arent eating them. They are killing them to sell to others for profit. Now people buy this (including satanists) and therefore are supporting the idea of killing animals for profit which is supporting the disobeying of the tenth rule.

This is THE last argument I have. If you can put that down I have no further issue.


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382373
05/23/09 02:25 PM
05/23/09 02:25 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 19
D
Dimitri Offline
Dimitri  Offline
D

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 19
Quote:
My debate is not on whether eating meat is right or wrong, nor about whether satanists do it or not, or whether it is moral for a satanist to do it.

The issue is whether Killing an animal for food is actually properly in the philosophy considering the unnaturalism it has been made into.

Rule #10- Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food

Apart from my own view about vegetarianism (which is biologically stated), the "rule" (guideline sounds better due to different factors in which this should be more detailed) isn't violated.

You are wondering if it is violated? It simply isn't. Take a broader perspective on the subject. Do you have the necessary time and place to own, raise and slaugther an animal for your meat? Do you even have the time to grow your vegetables and fruit? In modern society, things are working with different sorts of mechanisms. The little dollars you have in your wallet can turn into meat, vegetables, houses and other things. Instead of now hunting for food, you "transform" money into your meat.

And as someone here said: it was to evade animal abuse within the philosophy.

Think twice, make sure you have seen all the different perspectives or at least tried to..

On a second note but to Phosis this time:
Quote:
You do understand that this forum is for practicing Satanists, and is NOT a debate club, I hope?

As far as I know, when you practise things you are doing it outside in the real world and not on a forum..
Forums are to share experiences and opinions, I really can't see any possibility to be a practicing Satanist trough the internet...

Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Dimitri] #382375
05/23/09 02:27 PM
05/23/09 02:27 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 35
Australia
Atralux Lucis Offline OP
Atralux Lucis  Offline OP

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 35
Australia
I agree with what you have said, Ill report my last argument:


Do not kill non-human animals unless you are attacked or for your food.


Now what about the fact it says for your food. Now see the killers arent eating them. They are killing them to sell to others for profit. Now people buy this (including satanists) and therefore are supporting the idea of killing animals for profit which is supporting the disobeying of the tenth rule.

This is THE last argument I have. If you can put that down I have no further issue.


I must sleep now. I shall look forward to this last point being settled when I look again most likely in the morning.
Thank you


Lascivian Atralux Lucis

It's too bad that stupidity isn't painful.- Anton Szandor LaVey
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382376
05/23/09 02:29 PM
05/23/09 02:29 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,352
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister
Phineas  Offline
CoS Magister

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 8,352
For those in the know:

Please don't feed the monkeys!

Thank you.


"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll
Re: More controversy- Vegetarianism [Re: Atralux Lucis] #382378
05/23/09 02:36 PM
05/23/09 02:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,289
Burlington, VT
MagisterParadise Offline

CoS Magister
MagisterParadise  Offline

CoS Magister

Joined: Jul 2001
Posts: 3,289
Burlington, VT
Originally Posted By: Atralux Lucis
please go through each one of my questions and refute all of my arguments.


No.


Ever Forward!
Magister Matt G. Paradise - Church of Satan

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