Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#384082 - 06/10/09 06:10 AM just some questions...
moogle Offline


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 7
Hello.

I'm new here and can't find the introductory thread, but have concerns and questions.

I won't go into detail as to the extent of my particular reason for seeking this forum out, since I understand part of the philosophy is to never burden anyone with your problems. Therefore, I will not divulge unless prompted.

I do assume it's safe to ask some things here, however. I've learned quite a bit from reading through the information and some works on the philosophy of the CoS. But one thing in particular:

Religions of all kinds are there to give individuals a sense of belonging, of purpose, and they all claim to promise happiness, enlightenment, and the answer to prayers. If the CoS claims Satan is just a symbol, where does any kind of feeling or power or achievement really come from? I've always wanted to believe that power, or God, is really YOU, and from what I see, the CoS seems to be based on that entirely. Like the old sayings, 'believe in yourself', or 'you can make anything happen'... the CoS seems kind of like the emodiment of everything positive, a far cry from what outsiders think.

On a website by a member, he claims that Satan would never answer the call of one who is a nobody. Who has no achievements or wallows in self-pity. I can honestly say, I do try my hardest to not wallow. I have confidence in my abilities and do what I want without fear. But my ultimate desire seems impossibly unattainable. So where does the power come from, then?

If the CoS is proven to be invaluable to members, utilizing real magic to help give a push to those who are willing to do the rest for themselves, are you truly happy? Have any of you been able to obtain what you truly desire? Is it not just about learning self-importance and how to rely on yourself and really involves even a modicum of power, magic, divine intervention, etc. to grant you the help that you need? Why is there a reason for prayer if there is noone to answer you?

If it were all about doing for yourself, being yourself, helping yourself, then why would you need a church at all? If I could truly make my dream come true through all of this, why does it not happen?


Edited by moogle (06/10/09 06:15 AM)

Top
#384083 - 06/10/09 06:34 AM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
Azathoth Offline


Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 152
You've asked a lot at once and I'm sure other posters will be able to answer some of your questions better than I can. I'm going to take a swing at a few of them though.

Originally Posted By: moogle
Have any of you been able to obtain what you truly desire?


I've been able to obtain many of the things I truly desire.

Quote:
Is it not just about learning self-importance and how to rely on yourself and really involves even a modicum of power, magic, divine intervention, etc. to grant you the help that you need? Why is there a reason for prayer if there is noone to answer you?


Not all Satanists practice Greater Magic and there is room for a variety of opinions on the subject. Some believe it is only for emotional release, others believe that they are tapping into natural abilities that aren't understood by science yet.

Greater Magic is NOT prayer. Please refer to the Satanic Bible for more information.

Quote:
If it were all about doing for yourself, being yourself, helping yourself, then why would you need a church at all?


You do not need to join the Church of Satan to be a Satanist. It however does come with many benefits, including the opportunity to meet other Satanists in a safe environment.

I plan on joining in the next few years. Even without being a member however I have gained a lot from the Church of Satan. I've been inspired by the amazing people who make up its hierarchy. I've read dozens of great books recommended either by the Church itself or individual members. The insights from them have improved my life tremendously and inspired me to look further into many subject I otherwise wouldn't have even known existed.

Quote:
If I could truly make my dream come true through all of this, why does it not happen?


It could either be the balance factor or perhaps you don't quite understand Satanism and you have to study more. Satanism requires study, not worship.
_________________________
"I don't know how masochism became synonymous with masculinity."- Rev. Bill M.

Top
#384085 - 06/10/09 07:08 AM Re: just some questions... [Re: Azathoth]
moogle Offline


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 7

So through study or practice of these philosophies you can gain what you desire?

I believe I've altered my sense of being already. I can feel some kind of immediate change, just by things that have occurred in my mind and heart, and my call for help, in the last few days.

I just need to know I can be given just enough divine intervention to be picked up and dropped down onto a path leading to the one thing I want, and need. I can walk it myself. I can walk it with my head held high, and whatever entity or great power is behind the opportunity, the chance I've been blessed with, I can make it proud. I can use what I've been given to be the strong, independent, free individual the church and anyone would admire and be proud of.

All I need is that push...the hand on my shoulder. The sign that says I'm heard, understood, and just being given a shot.

Top
#384087 - 06/10/09 07:35 AM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
SomethingLikEvil Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/25/08
Posts: 579
There is no "divine intervention," our desires are made manifest by our brains and brawn, not some "father" up above or down below. The "strength" to get things done comes from our drive to excel in whatever area who choose to devote our time to.
_________________________
Resigned -- again.

Top
#384099 - 06/10/09 09:31 AM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
Thrax Orion Offline


Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 47
Loc: San Diego, CA
Welcome Moogle! As a newcomer myself, I can only confidently address a few generalities, but I hope my insight might deepen your understanding a bit.

First off, Satanism is a philosophy that discards the notion of investing power in conceptualized external forces. In essence yes, you are Satan. The "dark force in nature called Satan" draws parallels to extremely nondescript new age theories of god and the universe, in my mind, however I'm sure many here will balk at that observation. But such notions aside, an important bullet point of Satanism is the complete ceding of thoughts and supporting language pointing to external deities of any kind except as a way to emotionally and psychologically stimulate yourself. It also shies away from the usual over complications associated with metaphysical and magical belief structures by outlining a very simple system of ritual.

If you continue to believe in an external entity reaching down and helping you, I actually don't see it as detrimental for the immediate time being. Just as long as you realize any power this belief structure has is invested BY and FOR you, and refrain from imbuing said structure with a human-like personality that you have to please to receive boons and blessings, or conversely to avoid punishment and retribution. This crutch should be discarded as soon as possible though, as it represents a fundamental error in how humans have been relating to the rest of reality.

Finally, and note this is not a specifically Satanic thought, but in any attempt to impress your will on the external world I like to quote my Aunt who is a very wise woman: "You don't get what you want, you get what you expect."

Top
#384111 - 06/10/09 12:07 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Two tips:

One, read the Church of Satan website very thoroughly. There is a wealth of info there. While you're at it, read all of the available literature by Anton LaVey, High Priest Gilmore, and other CoS Hierarchy members. If your questions aren't thoroughly answered after doing ALL of that, then there is probably an issue on your end in terms of understanding, which leads to step two...

Ask any questions you have in the CoS Questions forum. These things might get passed up in this forum, and you will be getting a lot of advice from people who probably have the same issues that you do, or likely, who might otherwise be uninformed. Since only hierarchy members will answer CoS Questions, you will have a better chance of obtaining the right answers.

HS!

Top
#384116 - 06/10/09 12:35 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
Mr. Saturday Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 1334
Loc: USA
Quote:
Religions of all kinds are there to give individuals a sense of belonging, of purpose, and they all claim to promise happiness, enlightenment, and the answer to prayers.


Religions of all kinds...but one. Satanism isn't about belonging (read this for more info). Your purposes and search for happiness should always be your own. As for enlightenment and answering prayers, I have never been spiritually enlightened or had a prayer answered.

Quote:
If the CoS claims Satan is just a symbol, where does any kind of feeling or power or achievement really come from?


Feelings come from within. Achievements are physical and personal and can come from all over.

As for where power comes from...if it works, does it matter?

Quote:
Like the old sayings, 'believe in yourself', or 'you can make anything happen'...


Quote:
...my ultimate desire seems impossibly unattainable.


That's because you can't make anything happen.

A key component of magic (and life) is balance.

Ask yourself: Why are my desires unattainable? Am a midget wanting into the NBA? Am I a ugly and poor man wanting to date a supermodel?

Ain't gonna happen, bub.

Balance your goals with your personal skills and attributes and you will succeed.

Quote:
Why is there a reason for prayer if there is noone to answer you?


Absolutely not. Satanists do not pray. And if you do employ magic and get no results...why employ it at all? It's all about pragmatism.

Quote:
...then why would you need a church at all?


Bingo! The Church of Satan has always said you needn't join to be a Satanist. You can do that on your own. As a corollary, if you don't believe in what Satanism represents, why even call yourself such?
_________________________
Hail Satan!

Mr. Saturday
Media Contact/Warlock - Church of Satan

Top
#384117 - 06/10/09 12:39 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
moogle Offline


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 7
so basically i cannot be helped...

I'm sorry, I love the theory and maybe I misunderstood but I was hoping I was not... perhaps I'm not strong enough, but all I wanted was to achieve one thing. To obtain one thing. I am desperate, because I don't know how I could ever achieve it in the position I'm in now...and I so desperately want it with every fiber of my being, to the point where I want to die if I must simply continue living my life without ever getting it...

I know about the stigma surrounding the CoS. That's why I hesitated. I was willing to do anything for a bit of whatever magic there might be out there, to help give me just one chance at making this dream come true. I guess I was taken in by the foolishness of ignorance when I offered my very soul to obtain what I desire more than anything else. Now I'm even more ashamed.

Now i don't know what to do. I would love so much to be able to have someone understand. I would love to believe that if I had the confidence you say makes you God, I could get it. But I feel weak, in my position. If you get what you expect, than I want to erase everything from my mind, because I'm non-existent compared to the object of my desire. I don't know how to make it better, even if I'm simply mentally ill just by having the desire I do.


I can't think of anything more to say. I'm sure I would, but I'm too exhausted of this pain

Top
#384126 - 06/10/09 01:08 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
Quote:
I can't think of anything more to say. I'm sure I would, but I'm too exhausted of this pain


I started typing answer after answer to each of your questions and queries. I generally respond to newcomers with a degree of patience and understanding.

However, after wasting a half hour of my valuable time I came to the above.

How incredibly irritating.

I invest time in assisting you, and then YOU determine you are finished, and sadder still, are willing to endure pain rather than continue to seek out that which might help you?

Well.

Hmmmph.


I guess we all get what we deserve.

For you it is pain.

For me it is disappointment.

The real question is which of us will be capable of learning from it?

Y~
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

Top
#384131 - 06/10/09 02:39 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: Ygraine]
moogle Offline


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 7
i don't understand your disappointment.

I didn't want to reveal as much as I even did, and of course I don't want to be in pain - I don't want to feel this way at all, or ever again. I'm just very confused and hurt beyond what I feel I can control.

Top
#384132 - 06/10/09 02:42 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
Azathoth Offline


Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 152
Can you actually say what this desire is?
_________________________
"I don't know how masochism became synonymous with masculinity."- Rev. Bill M.

Top
#384133 - 06/10/09 02:54 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: Mr. Saturday]
moogle Offline


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 7

Ask yourself: Why are my desires unattainable? Am a midget wanting into the NBA? Am I a ugly and poor man wanting to date a supermodel?

Ain't gonna happen, bub.

Balance your goals with your personal skills and attributes and you will succeed.




If that's the way it is, then you're doomed before you even gain a sense of desire...

There are plenty of people that want to do things, are told they cannot, and do it anyway. If there were magic in the world, an untapped power in the mind - then who is anyone to say something 'ain't gonna happen'?

I mean, that would be like stating I have a station in life. That what I want, I should already know I can never have. Well if the power and will of the mind and heart means anything, I should have no problem - cuz there's nothing I desire more. This is it. I couldn't be more confident in what that desire is. It's just a matter of, when nothing happens, or changes, how is that supposed to make you feel?


Edited by moogle (06/10/09 02:56 PM)

Top
#384134 - 06/10/09 02:59 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
Basher Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 66
Loc: Mars
Well, you could say that after a quarter century of torture beneath the collective hooves of deist sheeple, a group of Satanists feels warm and welcoming.
_________________________
Felated Satan!

Top
#384135 - 06/10/09 03:02 PM It doesn't matter. [Re: Azathoth]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12502
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:
Can you actually say what this desire is?


I am going to suggest that it really doesn't matter what the desire is.

Attaining any desire is based upon knowing what to do and being able to do it.

If a desire is unbelievable to you then you either do not know what to do or you don't know how to do it.

If a desire seems impossibly hard to achieve and therefor unattainable then you either do not know what to do or how to do it.

Examples are easy.

If the desire is for wealth, for example, then you need to know what to do and how to do it.

If you don't know what to do, you are stuck.

If you know what to do but you don't know how to do it, you are stuck.

All frustration regarding desires stems from these two issues.

Figure out what to do and how to do it and you will have all the motivation required to realize your desires.

Fail on either one and you will just sit there.

Simple.

Top
#384136 - 06/10/09 03:07 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8259
Go away. skull
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

Top
#384137 - 06/10/09 03:23 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: Azathoth]
moogle Offline


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 7
...

a man.

A man from the other side of the world, admired and famous and unaware of my existence.

I saw him on video, and I was instantly infatuated. I found myself seeking out any snippet of information or imagery I could, becoming glued and sinking deeper into a kind of obsession, wanting more and wanting it only for myself.

He is the embodiment of innocence. Small and feminine with a kind of spirit and blinding purity that makes me physically weak and realizing I have stopped breathing, cuz I've beheld something words can't describe. I see his smile when I close my eyes. My chest hurts when I think of how I want to reach through my screen and touch his face, wrap my arms around him...I'm even now realizing this is felt in lieu of a single sexual thought.

I'm in love.

And never like anything before. The intensity is like nothing ever felt. I'm sick from it. Can't leave my room. And stuck right here.

Top
#384138 - 06/10/09 03:26 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: Basher]
moogle Offline


Registered: 06/10/09
Posts: 7
hm? well, to be honest, I'm quite happy you're taking the time to speak with me and hear me out. I've learned quite a bit through what I've read already.

Top
#384143 - 06/10/09 03:45 PM Re: just some questions... [Re: moogle]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
Quote:

A man from the other side of the world, admired and famous and unaware of my existence.

I saw him on video, and I was instantly infatuated. I found myself seeking out any snippet of information or imagery I could, becoming glued and sinking deeper into a kind of obsession, wanting more and wanting it only for myself.

He is the embodiment of innocence. Small and feminine with a kind of spirit and blinding purity that makes me physically weak and realizing I have stopped breathing, cuz I've beheld something words can't describe. I see his smile when I close my eyes. My chest hurts when I think of how I want to reach through my screen and touch his face, wrap my arms around him...I'm even now realizing this is felt in lieu of a single sexual thought.

I'm in love.

And never like anything before. The intensity is like nothing ever felt. I'm sick from it. Can't leave my room. And stuck right here.


Oh, for fuck's sake.

You are either an overgrown pre teen or a total nutjob. Either way, you don't belong here. The sort of help you need isn't going be found on a message board.

You really ought to stop making an idiot of yourself, not to mention wasting people's time. It would be great if you would leave of you own accord.
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Forum Stats
12026 Members
73 Forums
43833 Topics
405261 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements