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#390283 - 08/03/09 10:33 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
That is a very good point, Roho.

And, offhand, I can recall two times in my own life where I didn't identify myself to another self-identified Satanist, because I wanted to test the waters first, wanted to err on the side of protecting my privacy, and, honestly, wanted to see if they could figure me out all on their own wink.

_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#390286 - 08/03/09 10:36 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Originally Posted By: Nibas
For three months, I have been proudly and openly wearing the Baphomet medallion that I ordered from the CoS Emporium. Yesterday – I went into a local convenience store to purchase some items, and had the following exchange of dialog:

Clerk: “What’s that symbol on your necklace stand for?”
Me: “It is the symbol of those who follow the philosophy laid down by Anton Szandor Lavey.”
Clerk: “And he would be?”
Me: “The founder of the Church of Satan.”
Clerk: (shakes her head and looks away)
Me: (gather my goods - walk towards the door - while exiting the building I hear)
Clerk: “God bless you.”
Me: (grin and walk away)

Hmmm… God bless me for being a Satanist. I love it.

This is the first time that anyone has questioned me about it. I have been wondering how I would respond if someone questioned me about my medallion, and had already planned what I would say. I never thought I would receive the response that I did. Hilarious!

The experience did make me wonder though – if openly displaying the Church of Satan Baphomet could be considered a form of solipsism? Obviously – there are many who are far less attuned than us, and perhaps they aren’t ready or willing to be exposed to our way of life.

On the other hand, I feel that I have just as much right to openly live as a Satanist as anyone else has the right to openly live as Raelian, Branch Davidian, Rastafarian, “Jehovah Wiccan”, or whatever else they want to be. I’m not trying to “win souls to The Devil” by displaying the Sigil of Baphomet. My intent is to wear the symbol of my beliefs, and when questioned about it – attempt to dispel misinformation about Satanism to those who are willing to hear.

Not everyone chooses to make their beliefs public, but I am curious how those who choose to openly live as Satanists handle the initial questions? Perhaps I should respond to those who ask about my medallion, “If you don’t already know, you probably aren’t ready to hear it, and if you’re curious, you can look it up.”

Input and thoughts are appreciated.

Hail Satan!



You seem like a decent guy. I'm not going to pussyfoot around or pull any punches. It might come off as sounding "mean" but these are just my opinions.

Hey, you asked for them.

I don't think it has anything to do with being "attuned". You live in what is essentially a society which believes it is based on "Christian values". To expect people to know or care about a tongue-in-cheek religion like Satanism IS direct solipsism, for sure. Most people don't even pick up anything but the fucking TV guide, so they certainly haven't read and attempted to absorb the Satanic Bible.

If you haven't read The Satanic Scriptures, I suggest doing so. It's fine to want to spread "awareness" of Satanism, but is there really a point? Most people won't understand the facts if you lay them out anyways, or wouldn't believe you. The best way to prove that Satanists aren't a bunch of devil worshiping shit-mongers is to live in a practical way, accomplish your goals, and "be all that you can be." The Satanic Scriptures says it all.

The people who spend their time dispelling myths have the experience and the knowledge and the knowhow to make them capable of doing so. These individuals are generally a part of the Priesthood. Most people here would not be doing the CoS any favors by fumbling in their attempts to paint Satanism in a positive light, myself included. I have seen many instances where members tried to do so, on TV etc, and failed miserably. They were scorned for it, not praised. And rightfully so.

It's your choice if you want to advertise your religion, but you need to ask yourself what is in it for YOU. If it's good cheeky fun, and you are a smooth son of a bitch who can get away with it, good on you. Magister Mitchell, the Sinister Minister is a prime example of someone who can literally get away with wearing his religion on his lapel without any interference. Try wearing one of those things to the construction yard, or to the office, and see how people react if you are not cool enough to calm them down.

I keep it a secret because honestly, talking about religion with people I don't know, and having to explain what Satanism is all the time is enough to make me want to puke. It's boring, it's pointless, and I have better things to do with my time. Satanism is a thing in my life which I love and respect very much, and at one time I was very proud and excited, and felt the need to talk about my discovery. I quickly learned why this is a bad idea, so I shut my mouth. I am not ashamed of my affiliation, and I don't go to great lengths to hide it, I just don't bring it up. When people ask about it, IF they find out, I just act dismissive. If they persist, I give them the sources and lead them on their marry way.

How YOU deal with these things is up to YOU. But if it is not in your best interest to do so, DON'T! Ain't nobody payin' you, after all.

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#390299 - 08/03/09 11:40 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
Philotechnic Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 08/02/07
Posts: 745
Loc: NC, US
Originally Posted By: Nibas

This is the first time that anyone has questioned me about it.


You must live near the cities in the eastern part of the state, It's pretty risky in the country to do such.

Originally Posted By: Nibas
My intent is to wear the symbol of my beliefs


The way I see it, you can either wear your religion, or you can act it. It's much like the people who are covered in tattoos, they have a desire to show off the person they are on the outside, but the more intriguing people are the ones that you have to dig to figure out who they are.

Originally Posted By: Nibas
when questioned about it – attempt to dispel misinformation about Satanism to those who are willing to hear.


This is always a 50/50 situation. a small percentage of people are willing to learn new things but a vast majority will stick to what they have known. I wouldn't rely on meeting people that fall into the former, especially in the south.

My advice is not to provoke, especially with people who could make your life harder. Of course, I'm not saying that it's hard to be a Satanist in the deep south, it's just best to be smart about things. I know some old country gentlemen that would whoop your ass in a heartbeat just for saying that you don't believe in god.

Step lightly.


Edited by Wolf Landon (08/03/09 11:48 PM)

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#390311 - 08/04/09 01:54 AM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
DCLXVI Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 07/13/06
Posts: 1064
Loc: U.S.A.
I tend to agree, in part, with most of the posts in this thread.

There are times when it might be wise to cover my Baphomet. There are other times I let it show.

I wear the small black Sigil that I purchased from CoS Emporium and the white one issued with my Crimson Card. As well as a sterling silver "stylized" one that I bought at a shop last week.
When asked, I often give the response,"If you have to ask, you probably wouldn't understand."

Recently, though, there have been several people who have at least heard of Herr Doktor. They often seem to think that by mentioning his name, they can open me up for discussion. But, when I ask them, "What do you know of Dr. La Vey?" They give what I call a "christian inspired" version of the media stories they've heard or read.

If they ask for more in-depth discussion, I point them to the Church of Satan website, and end the conversation.

One guy went so far as to say,"You seem to flaunt your beliefs. Are you sure people really want to see that stuff in public?"
I told him that I don't flaunt it as much as he did with his Ozzy-sized cross. And told him that "...not everyone in the world wants to see that stuff either."
"christians don't object!"
"Contrary to your beliefs, the whole world ISN'T christian."
And I walked away.
_________________________
"Churches may close and old shepherds may die, but the herd will always be the herd."
Reverend Bill


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#390356 - 08/04/09 09:06 AM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Originally Posted By: Old_Pig


In North Carolina? I would consider it a form of suicide.


I am not afraid. I have openly lived as NON-christian in North Carolina since I was 23 - which was 19 3/4 years ago. As younger, much less informed person who hadn't read The Satanic Bible, I identified myself with wiccan groups and openly wore an upright pentacle for 10 years. I have been verbally attacked, shunned, interrogated, and have always been able to stand up for myself. The fact is - I really don't give a fuck if my beliefs offend anyone, just as most other religions teach their herd to not give a fuck. - They can turn and walk away just as easily as I can, or attempt to take it to the next level if they wish.

Originally Posted By: 2faced_babydoll


As Zodiac mentioned, I don't think it's really a matter of solipsism either (unless you're expecting to be treated with respect and courtesy, when in reality the herd will likely not give you that once they know what the symbol means).

'Rights' are empty assumptions that sometimes don't garauntee anything in reality. E.g. it's your 'right' to walk out in public without being attacked, but that won't give you a garauntee that it will never happen, so learn to defend yourself. No matter what your 'rights' are, if you see things as they really are you won't end up disappointed when reality comes knocking.


I suppose that my expectations are to be able to exercise my First Amendment rights as a law-abiding citizen of the United States, just as any other individual. Defending myself is not an issue as you can see from my avatar. I'm not under the assumption that everyone is ready to hear about and accept Satanism as a respected religion, so I am not disappointed when they do not.

Originally Posted By: 2faced_babydoll


If you're wearing it openly your intent would seem to be to attract attention to it. As long as you genuinely want this (likely negative) attention, it's fine to pursue it. Realise though that displaying it publically can often work against you. If however you're using it for your Lesser magic to enhance your chosen image it can make your influence more potent. It guess the bottom line is just to be honest with yourself in what you're really trying to achieve, and see if your actions back it up.

When one first reads the Satanic Bible it can fill you with such pride, you may feel like shouting it from rooftops (at first). But truly being a Satanist is to get on with it and live as one, and shouting it from rooftops may cause people to throw things at you wink


Very wise observation. I never really explored this, but perhaps my intent is indeed to attract attention to myself. I find that I revel and thrive on attention. My image is already quite noticeable, and displaying my Baphomet probably does increase my influence. Thank you very much for your input.

Originally Posted By: Phosis


You seem like a decent guy.


Isn't that what they say about people who have dozens of half-eaten bodies stored in freezers in their basements?

Originally Posted By: Phosis


I'm not going to pussyfoot around or pull any punches. It might come off as sounding "mean" but these are just my opinions.

Hey, you asked for them.



Indeed. And honesty is what I expect.

Originally Posted By: Phosis


I don't think it has anything to do with being "attuned". You live in what is essentially a society which believes it is based on "Christian values". To expect people to know or care about a tongue-in-cheek religion like Satanism IS direct solipsism, for sure. Most people don't even pick up anything but the fucking TV guide, so they certainly haven't read and attempted to absorb the Satanic Bible.

If you haven't read The Satanic Scriptures, I suggest doing so. It's fine to want to spread "awareness" of Satanism, but is there really a point? Most people won't understand the facts if you lay them out anyways, or wouldn't believe you. The best way to prove that Satanists aren't a bunch of devil worshiping shit-mongers is to live in a practical way, accomplish your goals, and "be all that you can be." The Satanic Scriptures says it all.


I appreciate you answering my original question about solipsism. Agreed. Also - I am almost finished with The Satanic Scriptures, and find it hard to put it down. I like Magus Gilmore's writing style and the way he conveys his wisdom.

Originally Posted By: Phosis


The people who spend their time dispelling myths have the experience and the knowledge and the knowhow to make them capable of doing so. These individuals are generally a part of the Priesthood. Most people here would not be doing the CoS any favors by fumbling in their attempts to paint Satanism in a positive light, myself included. I have seen many instances where members tried to do so, on TV etc, and failed miserably. They were scorned for it, not praised. And rightfully so.

It's your choice if you want to advertise your religion, but you need to ask yourself what is in it for YOU. If it's good cheeky fun, and you are a smooth son of a bitch who can get away with it, good on you. Magister Mitchell, the Sinister Minister is a prime example of someone who can literally get away with wearing his religion on his lapel without any interference. Try wearing one of those things to the construction yard, or to the office, and see how people react if you are not cool enough to calm them down.


Thank you. I have never attempted to speak on behalf of the Church of Satan, only as an individual who identifies themselves as a Satanist. I'm not on a crusade to change the world, but then again, it is “good cheeky fun” to me, and I feel confident in standing up for what I believe in.

Originally Posted By: Phosis


I keep it a secret because honestly, talking about religion with people I don't know, and having to explain what Satanism is all the time is enough to make me want to puke. It's boring, it's pointless, and I have better things to do with my time. Satanism is a thing in my life which I love and respect very much, and at one time I was very proud and excited, and felt the need to talk about my discovery. I quickly learned why this is a bad idea, so I shut my mouth. I am not ashamed of my affiliation, and I don't go to great lengths to hide it, I just don't bring it up. When people ask about it, IF they find out, I just act dismissive. If they persist, I give them the sources and lead them on their marry way.

How YOU deal with these things is up to YOU. But if it is not in your best interest to do so, DON'T! Ain't nobody payin' you, after all.


Thank you again Phosis for your insight. I see it as personal choice, and talking about religion/philosophy with those who are willing to participate with an open mind is something that I find interesting. For the others - I will simply respond with "If you don't already know, you probably aren't ready to hear it, and you can find more information on it if you choose to do so."

Originally Posted By: Wolf Landon


You must live near the cities in the eastern part of the state, It's pretty risky in the country to do such.


I live in the country in the North-Western part of the state - with a church practically every half-mile. It has taken years and countless visits by “witnesses” at my current address for the local churches to be informed that if a member of their congregations step foot on my property again, they will be arrested for trespassing.

Originally Posted By: Wolf Landon


I know some old country gentlemen that would whoop your ass in a heartbeat just for saying that you don't believe in god.

Step lightly.


I am a law-abiding citizen, licensed to carry a concealed weapon, adept in the legal use of deadly force. More often than not – I am carrying a .45 with one in the pipe and two extra magazines. Any old country gentlemen who have intentions on causing me or my family bodily injury should arrive wearing body armor with a Kevlar helmet and face mask, as head shots are what I practice. I step lightly – but carry a big “stick”.

Originally Posted By: DCLXVI
I tend to agree, in part, with most of the posts in this thread.

There are times when it might be wise to cover my Baphomet. There are other times I let it show.


Agreed – Example: “When in another’s lair, show him respect or else do not go there.”

Originally Posted By: DCLXVI

One guy went so far as to say,"You seem to flaunt your beliefs. Are you sure people really want to see that stuff in public?"
I told him that I don't flaunt it as much as he did with his Ozzy-sized cross. And told him that "...not everyone in the world wants to see that stuff either."


My point exactly. I have just as much right to display the Sigil of Baphomet as they have the right to display the symbol of human blood sacrifice that their god demanded for payment of their sins…

I suppose my original post was mainly directed at receiving responses from those who choose to live openly as Satanists. I choose to. Whatever repercussions or rewards that I experience – I bring upon myself. So be it. I intend to stand up for what I believe in, and reject the herd mentality. I choose not to hide or lie about it. Is that not what Anton LaVey did?

Hail Satan!
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#390358 - 08/04/09 09:13 AM Re: Solipsism? [Re: HereticPrincess2]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12982
Loc: The Solid State
Deluded.

Although that may be because something between their ears has been diluted smile.
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#390362 - 08/04/09 09:31 AM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
inky Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 103
Loc: USA
I live my life everyday as a Satanist.

However, advertising it raises more questions than I'm willing to answer, especially considering the fact that I'm not a social butterfly.

The funny part is that if and when I choose to tell somebody, there's a question or two but in the end, they're really not surprised.

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#390366 - 08/04/09 10:19 AM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
I would like to thank the moderators for removing posts which were off the original subject.

Much appreciation.

Hail Satan!

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#390377 - 08/04/09 12:20 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
Quote:
I am a law-abiding citizen, licensed to carry a concealed weapon, adept in the legal use of deadly force. More often than not – I am carrying a .45 with one in the pipe and two extra magazines. Any old country gentlemen who have intentions on causing me or my family bodily injury should arrive wearing body armor with a Kevlar helmet and face mask, as head shots are what I practice. I step lightly – but carry a big “stick”.


wink

Damn right; I'm all about the bullet.

The thing is though, I can’t recall ever actually being physically threatened because of my beliefs. I live in Georgia and in a town that worships Jesus and football (in the opposite order, usually) and I’ve been in discussions with some of the redneckiest (new word) people and at the very worst they became very superstitious of me, at best they greeted me with an exagerated smile and nervous laughter.

The problem I experienced with being too open and even a bit ostentatious with my beliefs is that it becomes a liability when it comes to getting a job and being perceived as a professional. Now, I’m not suggesting that there aren’t crazy people out there who are capable of attacking. I just think that if someone is being physically threatened because of their beliefs then they most certainly must be acting like a total douche bag, perhaps trying to purposely get a rise out of people.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

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#390395 - 08/04/09 01:47 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
Rodim Offline


Registered: 03/18/07
Posts: 239
It's not about having the right as anyone else to expose your religion to the public, but its a question of reaction.

And since the public dont really take it so kindly towards people involved with "Satan" so to speak.

They misunderstand and get confused and some might even rage out. You cant predict the attention your about to get.

It's always wiser to stay low-profile, besides even if your motives weren't to attract people to your medallion why would you want to engage anyone in the first place?

There's no benefit in it, well only if you accidentally stumble upon another satanist while riding the buss or something then yeah but chances are its unlikely.
_________________________
A casual stroll through the lunatic asylum shows that faith does not prove anything.

-Friedrich Nietzsche

The world is a tragedy to those who feel, but a comedy to those who think.

-Horace Walpole

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#390405 - 08/04/09 02:36 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Rodim]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Originally Posted By: Rodim


There's no benefit in it, well only if you accidentally stumble upon another satanist while riding the buss or something then yeah but chances are its unlikely.


Upon what experience do you base your opinion of “There’s no benefit in it”? Have you openly displayed the symbol of the Church of Satan and been questioned about it?

As stated in my original post:

Originally Posted By: Nibas


Not everyone chooses to make their beliefs public, but I am curious how those who choose to openly live as Satanists handle the initial questions?


And reiterated in another:

Originally Posted By: Nibas


I suppose my original post was mainly directed at receiving responses from those who choose to live openly as Satanists. I choose to.


This is not a question about “whether” I should openly display my medallion. Perhaps I should rephrase my question.

Am I the only one who chooses to openly live as a Satanist?
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#390419 - 08/04/09 04:03 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
Bruja Offline

CoS Witch

Registered: 04/22/05
Posts: 2054
Loc: Atlanta, GA.
Quote:
Am I the only one who chooses to openly live as a Satanist?


Of course you are not. The decision should be based on whether being open about affiliation is going to negatively impact the quality of your life, your ability to earn a living, ect.

It would be devastating for some members to splash the information around, it would compromise their jobs and affect their families. Others live a lifestyle that enables them to be as open about it as they would like.

It's a personal decision, and the open Satanist is no more a Satanist than those that choose to keep it private. After all, Satanism doesn't require martyrs. wink
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Bruja

"Being powerful is like being a lady. If you have to tell people you are, you aren't." - Margaret Thatcher

"An inordinate passion for pleasure is the secret of remaining young" - Oscar Wilde

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#390423 - 08/04/09 04:14 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Bruja]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Thank you for the response Bruja -

I completely understand that it is a personal decision and that there are some who would be unable to be open about it given their personal situations.

Agreed - Open or Private does not make you more or less of a Satanist.

I would like to hear from those who choose to live openly, if they are willing to share their experiences.

Hail Satan!
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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#390424 - 08/04/09 04:14 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: Zsche]
TheDegenerate Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Out of personal experience, I get more out of hiding it than I do out of sharing it.

I feel like it really is my own little secret...the same way someone might feel as if they discovered a band that no one has heard of. Spread the word around, and you will find monkeys you hate who love it as well, and who have now effectively ruined your fun.

I like knowing that nobody would EXPECT it of me. Nibas, you seem to like the attention, and that is perfectly fine. There are some pretty stern misanthropes here however, who don't like to deal with people. Wearing the sign of the devil around their necks is not a good way to remain incognito. I'm happiest when I am being left completely and utterly alone, and this type of self-inflicted isolation actually earns me more respect and love than I could ever want. People really genuinely LIKE me, and seem to want to be around me, because I don't yap on about shit.

This doesn't work for my benefit, I just find it funny how so many people try SO HARD to be liked and noticed. However, the people who don't WANT to be are often the most bothered.

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#390434 - 08/04/09 04:41 PM Re: Solipsism? [Re: TheDegenerate]
Zsche Offline



Registered: 04/17/09
Posts: 158
Loc: Where the 5.56 casings fall...
Thank you for your input Phosis.

Agreed - not everyone thrives off of the same type of energy.

Me - crowds of people and meeting new individuals seem to be my thing.

Those who like me - genuinely do like me, as I really am a nice guy who attempts to be responsible to the responsible. Those who don't like me - or choose to judge me by my appearance (wearing Baphomet or not) can go fuck themselves.

I'm happy with my life and who I am. I'm not seeking approval from anyone.
_________________________
Originally Posted By: Phineas
My suggestion to you, besides obtaining a copy of The Satanic Bible and reading it, is to immerse yourself in the information contained at the Church of Satan website.

Originally Posted By: Hagen von Tronje
You can't guzzle whiskey and pinch pretty ladies' asses when you're dead.

Originally Posted By: Roho_the_Rooster
Love life. Live life. Don't fuck with people unnecessarily. Don"t let other people fuck with you. Simple guidelines that that will help you to make informed, intelligent and Satanic decisions.

Originally Posted By: Callier
Constructive criticism is one thing but people that just point blank tell others what they should be doing with their lives without any kind of permission can eat a bag of hairy balls.

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