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#390473 - 08/04/09 09:38 PM Leaving Satanism or Coming Back?
Infgoat Offline


Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 38
Loc: New York
Hello everyone, I have not posted in a long time. Let me explain my situation.

I have read the satanic bible numerous times and I loved every word in that book. It was just me; I was reading myself in the pages. After a year of claiming to be a Satanist after reading TSB and TSR a few times, I felt the need to branch my readings. I picked up every book by Anton LaVey I could find. I bought the Satanic Witch, Satan Speaks, and The Devil's Notebook. I first read the Satanic Witch, and I found it to be very different from The Satanic Bible. A lot of the logic and science in it seemed like meta-science and just bogus (no offence to anyone here). But i could see how It may make sense, and I learned a lot about lesser magic. I still use a lot of the things in that book to my every day life. (Although some was very far fetched). Then I read the Devil's Notebook and Satan Speaks back to back. And I was appauled. Some of the material in that book just... was the exact opposite of me. Now i know those books are not directly related to COS, but still it completely drove me away from the idea. And exmaple (i dont remember from what book, sorry) It gave a situation where you have an enemy, or someone you are afraid of, and to turn into an animal, bake a cookie, and eat the cookie like a wild animal on al fours, and so on. Those last two books just completely drove me away from Satanism, I thought it was a joke, who could really think this bogus! (once agian no mean to offend)

It has been about two years since then. And i came back on the forums and saw a post about greater magic. Now this was always a touchy subject with me, i saw it as a waste of time, and had no actual purpose instead to ease someones mind. But, i went around listening to Peter Gilmore, stating that greater magic was not a necissary part of the members of COS. In fact, it is up to the individual to decide if he will participate in Greater Magic. Well this made me rethink my whole situation.

Is the Church of Satan right for me? It use to be, I was all about being a card carrying member until I did a lot of deep research. If the COS was just the Satanic Bible, i would say sign me up. But I feel that a lot of the material in the Satanic Witch, The Devil's Notebook, and Satan Speaks is just... nonsense (for the last time, I do not mean to offend). I would appreciate your answers and input on my situation. Thanks.

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#390482 - 08/04/09 10:36 PM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Infgoat]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
"Is the Church of Satan right for me? It use to be, I was all about being a card carrying member until I did a lot of deep research. If the COS was just the Satanic Bible, i would say sign me up. But I feel that a lot of the material in the Satanic Witch, The Devil's Notebook, and Satan Speaks is just... nonsense (for the last time, I do not mean to offend). I would appreciate your answers and input on my situation. Thanks."

Only you can determine if membership in The Church of Satan is for you.

Stating that the other books written by the founder of The Church of Satan are not related to The Church of Satan is rather naive and, frankly, shows a lack of understanding on your part.

By your own statements, you are not a Satanist, you are perhaps, at most, sort of a fan of some aspects. You resonate with some of the ideas and concepts, not all.

Why would a non Satanist want to join the COS? It doesn't make sense, does it.

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#390483 - 08/04/09 10:40 PM Gone. [Re: Infgoat]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12536
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:
Is the Church of Satan right for me?


Obviously not.

Go away.

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#390484 - 08/04/09 10:40 PM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Phineas]
Infgoat Offline


Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 38
Loc: New York
Lack of understanding? Hm. So the chapters in Lavey's other books about how people should not bathe, women should wear their menstral blood in their clevage, and pretending to be an animal when your upset is part of the Satanic way? If this is the case, then I am not a Satanist.

If a Satanist is simply someone who follows the Satanic Bible and The Satanic Rituals, and those books alone, then I am a Satanist.

So which one is it? Thanks.

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#390486 - 08/04/09 10:43 PM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Infgoat]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
Satanists do not follow The Satanic Bible nor do they follow The Satanic Rituals.

Once again you have proven you are not a Satanist.

Be happy with whatever it is you are. Do not pretend to be anything else.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#390488 - 08/04/09 10:50 PM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Phineas]
Infgoat Offline


Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 38
Loc: New York
Hm maybe I am not a Satanist then.

One last question then. If you do not follow the Satanic Bible, and the Satanic Bible is the guideline of Satanism. Then how can anyone be a Satanist without a guideline to follow.

Sorry, I just feel you're being a bit nit-picky with the chosing of the word "follow". If you're not, then I really do not understand what you are trying to get at.

Thanks agian for the quick responces. I appreciate your time.

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#390489 - 08/04/09 10:52 PM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Infgoat]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8262
"Sorry, I just feel you're being a bit nit-picky with the chosing of the word "follow". If you're not, then I really do not understand what you are trying to get at."

A Satanist would understand exactly what I am saying.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#390491 - 08/04/09 10:56 PM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Phineas]
Infgoat Offline


Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 38
Loc: New York
Ergh, alright.

Thanks for your time I suppose.

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#390499 - 08/04/09 11:31 PM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Infgoat]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
If there is any doubt then there is no doubt.
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#390685 - 08/06/09 01:45 AM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Svengali]
Infgoat Offline


Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 38
Loc: New York
I appreciate the words of wisdom.

I suppose I am a much broader type of symbolic Satanism. LaVey was not the person who invented symbolic satanism, but he did play a important part in it. I just can not find myself to agree with all of his writings.

Thanks for your time guys. You have all been a blast to read over the years. I'm on to much bigger things. Thanks agian!

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#390693 - 08/06/09 03:32 AM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Infgoat]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: InfestedGoat
I first read the Satanic Witch, and I found it to be very different from The Satanic Bible.

I take it you skipped those few pages in The Satanic Bible about lesser magic? The Satanic Witch is an expansion on the topic of lesser magic, while The Satanic Rituals is an expansion on the topic of greater magic (another subject from The Satanic Bible).

Quote:
A lot of the logic and science in it seemed like meta-science and just bogus (no offence [sic] to anyone here).

"Perhaps even more will be condemned as having 'no known or accredited scientific basis'. Fine. All I know is it works. And if it works, I don't knock it." - The Satanic Witch, p26

Quote:
And i came back on the forums and saw a post about greater magic. Now this was always a touchy subject with me, i saw it as a waste of time,

You definitely seem to be one of those types of people who likes to base conclusions on assumptions and faith (and perhaps deeply-rooted superstitions too), rather than personal experimentation. It looks like you're also trying to rationalize away over half of the Satanic Bible with "Well, Peter Gilmore said formalized ritual wasn't necessary...".

Quote:
Is the Church of Satan right for me?

That's up to you. Though based on what I said above, my guess would be "no".

Quote:
LaVey was not the person who invented symbolic satanism,

I have yet to see evidence of some organization that existed before the Church of Satan, actually called themselves "Satanists", and practiced something explicitly called "Satanism" (let alone a philosophy that applied itself beyond the ritual chamber).

Quote:
I just can not find myself to agree with all of his writings.

Satanists are not obligated to agree with all of LaVey's personal views and writings found in the likes of The Devil's Notebook and Satan Speaks. Satanism is a religion, not a cult of personality. More importantly, Satanism is not a cause but rather a tool, and different Satanists are going to find different ways of manifesting it in their lives. This is why the Church of Satan doesn't have official positions when it comes to politics, aesthetics, careers, etc.; it's up to the individual Satanist.

We do, however, expect Satanists to all be on the same page when it comes to core tenets like the 9 Statements, The Satanic Bible (and not just the first 40 pages), the 9 Sins, etc. If you can't at least agree with the core principles of a religion, then there's no point in associating oneself with it.
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#390791 - 08/06/09 10:40 PM Re: Leaving Satanism or Coming Back? [Re: Bill_M]
Infgoat Offline


Registered: 04/17/07
Posts: 38
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: Bill_M
I take it you skipped those few pages in The Satanic Bible about lesser magic? The Satanic Witch is an expansion on the topic of lesser magic, while The Satanic Rituals is an expansion on the topic of greater magic (another subject from The Satanic Bible).

No, I read every word. The Satanic Witch was probably the best book besides The Satanic Bible. It is a great tool, and i still use a lot of the lesser magic techniques even today. I really don't remember having a problem with the material in The Satanic Witch; it was more so the Devil's Notebook and Satan Speaks.



Quote:
You definitely seem to be one of those types of people who likes to base conclusions on assumptions and faith (and perhaps deeply-rooted superstitions too), rather than personal experimentation. It looks like you're also trying to rationalize away over half of the Satanic Bible with "Well, Peter Gilmore said formalized ritual wasn't necessary...".

No I don't ignore it, I just see it as purely symbolic. Which i think is great for some people if they want to spend the time to feel the magic that is in the ritual chamber. I personally, just do not see the need for myself to participate in greater magic. It's not that i disagree with it; it is just not necessary for me.


Quote:

We do, however, expect Satanists to all be on the same page when it comes to core tenets like the 9 Statements, The Satanic Bible (and not just the first 40 pages), the 9 Sins, etc. If you can't at least agree with the core principles of a religion, then there's no point in associating oneself with it.


See this is by far the most informative post in this thread. Thank you. This is exactly what I was asking. I (being a satanist or not) always have gone by the 9 Satanic Statements, 9 sins, and (after I read it [not just first 40 pages]) the Satanic Bible. I think the core principals are great, and that is what I am all about (whether I am apart of the COS or not). I always considered myself a Satanist after I read The Satanic Bible, it was only after reading The Devil's Notebook and The Satanic Witch that i got discouraged and decided to take some time off and think.

which leads us to,
Quote:
Satanists are not obligated to agree with all of LaVey's personal views and writings found in the likes of The Devil's Notebook and Satan Speaks.

This is all I was really asking. I don't find the things in either of those books to be me, at all. They were interesting to read, but I could not put myself into those books. Unlike The Satanic Bible, which was like I was reading myself.

Thank you Bill_M, you have helped me out a ton. I guess I need to maybe re-read a few books, get my principals down and see if being an official member of The Church of Satan is a good step in my life. Thanks to your input, I now know that The Church of Satan is what I originally thought it was; it shares my same philosophies that have been a part of me even before I discovered Satanism. I appreciate your time to answer my questions!


Edited by InfestedGoat (08/06/09 10:42 PM)

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