Topic Options
#390237 - 08/03/09 06:48 PM Wolves In The Fold; or, Dear Satanic Abby
Wiccan Paladin Offline


Registered: 08/03/09
Posts: 1
Apologies if you feel I have posted this in the wrong place, but I wanted answers from experienced members of the CoS.

First, by way of reintroduction - I was, several years ago, a guest on your mailing list. I had heard many things about your organization all of my life, and wished to give the CoS "equal time", so to speak. I learned a lot, and I believe I conducted myself honorably - Magus Lazarus could vouch for this, if he remembers me and is still around.

I have been in a leadership role in a local Pagan circle for a little over a decade, now - mostly Wiccan, actually, but not exclusively. Our numbers fell off for a while between 2005 and 2007, but recently things have begun to come back together, with many new members and our first major new gathering having occurred just this last Saturday.

The reason I am writing is because of the inclinations of two of our new members. One professes to have studied Lavey extensively - and from the conversations we have had and the knowledge I garnered here, I believe him - and seems to comport himself appropriately. The other, who initially came with him, seems very knowledgable about all manner of magickal matters, but seems particularly obsessed with the darker side of things. Specifically, he has apparently "summoned demons" on several occasions. They both came into the group a bit brusquely, with an attitude that seemed to mark an intention to dominate the group, but I believe I have set them straight where that is concerned. Our group is a fairly democratic structure, and I intend to keep it that way.

They really don't seem like bad guys. They're both about 25, and seem like a couple of chuckleheads to me, really.

My questions are: Is there any advice that any of you would care to offer regarding how I should deal with them in the group? Have you ever heard of Satanists doing well in such a group (or such a group doing well with them)? Or am I inviting wolves into my henhouse?

Top
#390246 - 08/03/09 07:33 PM Re: Wolves In The Fold; or, Dear Satanic Abby [Re: Wiccan Paladin]
Svengali Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 03/06/03
Posts: 12460
Loc: Florida, U.S.A.
Why would an alleged Satanist be interested in participating in a "wicca" group?

The lot of you sound completely doubtful to me.
_________________________
Live and Let Die.
"If I have to choose between defending the wolf or the dog, I choose the wolf, especially when he is bleeding." -- Jaques Verges
"I may have my faults, but being wrong ain't one of them." -- Jimmy Hoffa
"As for wars, well, there's only been 268 years out of the last 3421 in which there were no wars. So war, too, is in the normal course of events." -- Will Durant.
"Satanism is the worship of life, not a hypocritical, whitewashed vision of life, but life as it really is." -- Anton Szandor LaVey
“A membership ticket in this party does not confer genius on the holder.” -- Benito Mussolini
MY BOOK: ESSAYS IN SATANISM | MY BLOG: COSMODROMIUM | Deep Satanism Blog

Top
#390248 - 08/03/09 07:44 PM Re: Wolves In The Fold; or, Dear Satanic Abby [Re: Wiccan Paladin]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6368
Who is "Magus Lazarus"?
_________________________
Director
Committee for the
Promotion of Vice and
Prevention of Virtue

Top
#390279 - 08/03/09 10:01 PM Very well. [Re: Wiccan Paladin]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12600
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I will offer some straight answers to your questions in the hope that they are offered sincerely.

(1) "summoned demons".

We may be "demons" in the eyes of others, but we do not summon them.

As explained in The Satanic Bible, in ritual we invoke the names of the historical Devils themselves, the former gods of the past who were demoted by Christianity and Islam, especially. Mere demons, in the traditional sense, are not high enough up (or "down", if you prefer) the hierarchy of Hell to be bothered with.

See page 56 and 57 of The Satanic Bible to understand in detail what I am discussing here.

If someone in your midst claims to be a Satanist and is "summoning demons", you do not have a Satanist present. But you may have a backsliding Christian! wink

(2) "Satanists doing well in ... a group".

Usually a real Satanist will get what he wants from whatever activity or group he associates with. If not, he will simply leave.

It is therefor a self-correcting situation.

(3) "chuckleheads".

Chances are close to 100% that if that is they way these two are coming off then they really do not know very much about Satanism.

To meet one of our kind is to know you are in the presence of someone with quiet self-confidence and often no small dash of nobility.

"Satanism ... requires study."

Not just pretty words.

Top
#390308 - 08/04/09 12:59 AM Re: Wolves In The Fold; or, Dear Satanic Abby [Re: Wiccan Paladin]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10581
Loc: England
>> My questions are: Is there any advice that any of you would care to offer regarding how I should deal with them in the group? Have you ever heard of Satanists doing well in such a group (or such a group doing well with them)? Or am I inviting wolves into my henhouse? <<


I have a friend who is a Wiccan and a member of a Coven.

An experienced lady in her 60's who has been involved in Wicca for many years. I've had a few conversations around the dinner table with several members of her Coven.

This group includes a number of very educated people.

I can respect that and have enjoyed hearing what the more educated members had to say.

But when it comes to the religion itself, if I were you, I would be careful of what your two acquaintances actually want and of what their intentions might be.

A Satanist would not really be compatible with Wicca in the sense that there are fundamental differences.

The reason I say be careful is: there is no reason why any Satanist would wish to harm you - they would merely acknowledge those fundamental differences, probably respect you for yours, but desist from involvement with your actual practices.

Your two friends on the other hand seem to want to be involved and... as Anton LaVey warned (and even we, The Church of Satan have to remain aware of this)... "there are Satanists, and there are nuts."

I hope this has helped.
_________________________
"u.v.ray blends the dark street poetry of Nelson Algren with the swagger and style of a young Iggy Pop."

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





Top
#390696 - 08/06/09 04:22 AM Re: Wolves In The Fold; or, Dear Satanic Abby [Re: Wiccan Paladin]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11570
Loc: New England, USA
Hello,

Originally Posted By: Wiccan Paladin
My questions are: Is there any advice that any of you would care to offer regarding how I should deal with them in the group? Have you ever heard of Satanists doing well in such a group (or such a group doing well with them)?

Satanists who find interest in any sort of ecumenical group are actually extremely rare. But yes, they do exist. I myself have many "witch" friends whom I've joined for the occasional non-denominational Samhain circle and what not. Maybe these two new guys will find what they're looking for in your group, maybe they won't.

Though as others have pointed out, the one who claims to work with demons is certainly not a Satanist. Maybe a "devil worshiper" or "Luciferian", but not a "Satanist". Satanism is a non-theistic religion formed in the 1960s with the creation of the Church of Satan. Before that, there were no other non-fictional groups calling themselves "Satanists". So we've got dibs on the name.

Quote:
Or am I inviting wolves into my henhouse?

Actually, in all honesty, it could be inviting two hens into a wolf den. I hate to say it, but when it comes to groups who openly bash Satanism, Wicca is almost right up there with Christianity. In their P.R. efforts to make Wicca a socially acceptable religion, many Wiccans have blindly bought all of the Christian propaganda about what Satanists do ("Oh, WE don't worship the devil and sacrifice cats. It's those evil Satanists who do that!"). Going back to those Samhain circles I mentioned: there were certainly people there who weren't comfortable with a known Satanist being there.

Do you have people in your group who are likely to say "Hey, I'm getting this negative energy, and I think it's because that new guy wears his pentagram one-point-down!"? As the leader of this circle, are you ready to handle that sort of drama? Something to think about.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

Top
#391027 - 08/09/09 06:49 AM Re: Wolves In The Fold; or, Dear Satanic Abby [Re: Bill_M]
Ygraine Offline

CoS Magistra

Registered: 07/11/01
Posts: 2849
Loc: Florida
As one who spent 2 decades in Wicca and acquired all the bells & whistles (titles, initiations, etc...) Let me explain:

When some putz wants to infiltrate a Wiccan group and claims dark magical knowledge/experience he wants two things:

1. He wants magical and literal sympathy and attention from the kind of Wiccans who buy into that shit and will spend time and energy fixing him, and/or...

2. He wants to excuse his lack of real study on any alternative religion but still appear advanced and interesting.

In short this shit is low rent manipulation.

A genuine Satanist would come to you and say that they left Satanism due to genuine spiritual leanings, and they'd leave it at that and get with the studying.

Best wishes & bright blessings,
Ygraine
_________________________
Magistra, Church of Satan/
Autocrat of the Damned





http://magistrayrainetwo.blogspot.com/

Top


Forum Stats
12282 Members
73 Forums
43882 Topics
404449 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 06:49 AM
Advertisements