Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#391173 - 08/10/09 11:26 PM The Lack of Manners & Respect...
Amberpocalypse Offline



Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Arizona
Is it solipsism to expect others to have general manners and respect? I thought I had seen another post on the same subject, but I searched & didn't find it. So, I apologize if I'm bringing up something that's already been discussed.
I was raised by an old fashioned bitch of a christian stepmonster- but, I DID learn a few good things from her: cleanliness, respect for my elders, and common courtesy and manners when dealing with everyone- strangers, friends, etc. Working in retail, I encounter all types of people- but, I work in a mall in the ghetto, so to speak, so the majority of the people I deal with are... well, ghetto. Not so bad in itself, I've lived in the area before due to lack of fundage. But I still had my respectful mannerisms. Is it solipsism to expect the same from others? I've realized it's senseless to get angry at young kids who have no manners- they were not taught them. But I feel like an old woman at 25 constantly muttering "These damn fool no good hoodlum kids!" And it makes me EVEN angrier when it's a woman older than me who is just rude, thoughtless, and thankless. It's the same complaining I've done ever since I GOT a job- I've tried and tried to get over it. What DOES console me is the fact that one day I'll have the education and profession that will keep me from dealing with the general public.

Thoughts?
Thanks for any input!

And I apologizing for complaining- it was only to illustrate the point.
_________________________
coopdevil
www.satannet.com/Amberpocalypse

Top
#391178 - 08/11/09 12:45 AM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
Magnus Offline


Registered: 09/04/06
Posts: 71
Loc: South America
Originally Posted By: Amberpocalypse
Is it solipsism to expect others to have general manners and respect?

Yes it is.
I remember I had a girlfriend whose parents lack total manners (I met them when things were getting serious). I donít think they liked me very much, but my parents didnít like her either and still showed courtesy in many different ways her parents didnít. This led me to think about the kind of people they usually meet; eventually realizing that her family had a lot of bad habitsÖ and even worse I finally found out her mom is a Jehovahís Witness (so add ignorance). These people were absolutely inferior, so it was just a matter of time for her to act as how she was raised. I didnít break up then, but it was one of the main reasons for me to end the relationship.
I sure judge people as inferior the second after I see total lack of manners. I think manners are one of many clues that help identifying the undesirable jerks. But I also keep in mind that even educated people can still show contempt in a 'gracious manner'. I donít expect anyone to be nice, but at the same time (and as long as my personality allows me), I always try to be polite.
It is a nice goal to attempt to move to a place where courtesy and respect is used regularly. It sure improves the quality of oneís life. It has been said before: The Devil is a gentleman. coopdevil
_________________________
There is no God but Me, and I am His only Prophet

Top
#391181 - 08/11/09 02:58 AM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
Shade Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Oh gosh, I've written about this topic before. Have I. I was harping on bad manners so much on this messageboard that I was annoying myself. I'm less a stickler for pure etiquette these days but I still think it's possible to say anything with diplomacy and tact. Anything.

I share your contempt for the contemptibly rude and think your consolation (getting out of the retail sector) may be the best thing to remember. Being in the service industry is kind of like trying to keep a smile on your face and a cheerful lilt in your voice while being kicked in the shins. Repeatedly.

Coupla things that other folks have said that sunk in and helped me tremendously. I'm going to attempt to paraphrase here:

Magister Svengali - Working with the public is a bullet train to deep misanthropy but nothing will hone your lesser magic skills better than that kind of interaction/involvement/practice.

Zaftig - Lowering expectations is not the same thing as lowering standards.

It really doesn't surprise me when people are total dicks but it still pisses me off. And that's okay.

"Discourtesy is unspeakably ugly to me." ~ Hannibal Lecter (eater of the rude and pretentious)
_________________________
"What happens in the shadow, in the grey regions, also interests us Ė all that is elusive and fugitive, all that can be said in those beautiful half tones, or in whispers, in deep shade." ~ The Brothers Quay

We're Just Regular People

Top
#391192 - 08/11/09 08:15 AM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
I've asked myself the same question, Amberopocalypse, and I've at least decided that, no, it isn't necessarily solipsistic to have standards or expectations.

What *would* be solipsistic is if you had blind faith and total trust that people were always going to adhere to your standards just so, and therefore didn't have any kind of a "Plan B" for when someone might fall short or screw up.

I don't think it's unfair to hold people to a kind of standard of decorum, especially since some of the most vital things strike me as being some of the smallest and easiest (even though succumbing to temptation might actually seem even easier, at least in the moment).

As I see it, Satanism is actually about being willing to have standards, even when the rest of the world seemingly doesn't care, and most people have become too timid, fearful, or apathetic to say, "I desire, I seek, I dare."

I tend to place an extremely high premium on things like kindness, reciprocity, responsibility, and consideration. (Though, even I tend to be rather bad at sending "Thank You" cards. whistle )
_________________________
"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

Top
#391195 - 08/11/09 09:07 AM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: TrojZyr]
Amberpocalypse Offline



Registered: 11/30/08
Posts: 75
Loc: Arizona
When I ring customers up at the register, it's expected of me to thank them. So I do! And when they don't thank me, I just say "you're welcome" in a sing songy voice, and no one else knows I'm being rude. But they do. I hope, anyway. smile
_________________________
coopdevil
www.satannet.com/Amberpocalypse

Top
#391196 - 08/11/09 09:18 AM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
J. Hagalaz Offline


Registered: 12/30/03
Posts: 1212
Loc: USA
I don't think it's solipsistic to expect people to behave like civil, mindful adults. However, I do take advantage of the fact that a lot of people are quite crass and rude; I simply stand out as being exceptionally tactful in comparison. As Magister Svengali says in Shade's quote/paraphrase, being around rude and obnoxious people will test your skills at gaining rapport, keeping your cool around ignorant a-holes, and gives you an opportunity to examine and study human behavior at its "best".

I've learned to enjoy the challenge of dealing with difficult people. It's interesting to notice that a person who is habitually difficult is actually easier to deal with than someone is just being a turd because they are having a bad day because a habitually rude person is predictable enough that one can be strategic in their approach. The person who is just having "a moment" will always catch you off guard and will definitely test your patience.

My main approach to the latter is that I refuse to own their problem. Rather than be defensive or attack them for bing rude, I simply say something like "sounds like you are having a bad day there." The idea is to put them on the defensive. Make them the victim of their own behavior.
_________________________
They are doomed because they cannot even glimpse beyond the construct that their masters have put into place. Their masters are doomed because they believe in the construct they created.

Top
#391197 - 08/11/09 09:42 AM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
JustinR Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 1517
Loc: Newfoundland, Canada
My mother made sure I was raised to have manners and respect. When I was younger, if my manners slipped or I was a little disrespectful, she let me know. Not in a harsh way, but she'd just point out the errors of my ways.

Having a lack of manners and/or respect is a quick way to get under my skin.
_________________________
"If you're going to be a sinner, be the best sinner on the block." - Anton Szandor LaVey

"If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking." - General George S. Patton



Top
#391205 - 08/11/09 10:25 AM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
I think manners and respect is exactly how you can tell a real true Satanist from a wannabe.

Having realistic expectations is a great ability to have.

Discriminate with care.
_________________________









Top
#391216 - 08/11/09 01:09 PM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
CodeEschew Offline


Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 107
Loc: USA
Absolutely.

Here's a story I love to tell on that subject. I was eating breakfest in small diner a few years back. My waitress would smile at me and ask if I needed anything as is customary of her trade. Unfortunately, she couldn't walk ten feet away before she began complaining about the patrons she was serving (including me) out loud in a semi-empty space. The other customers actually stopped with their coffee in hand and stared.

When I finished and recieved the bill, I paid the amount to the penny and said directly to her "Here's your tip. If insist on berateing your customers, make sure they're out of ear shot." The look on her face was absolutely priceless and I walked out of there with a big smile on my face.

Top
#391220 - 08/11/09 01:34 PM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Unknown]
HereticPrincess2 Offline


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 146
Loc: Des Plaines, IL
I was raised as well to have good manners, say "please" and "thank you" of which "thank you" would consistently slip my mind and would lead to my mom always saying to me, "What do you say?" and then I would sheepishly thank the person. That always bothered me when she did that lol.


Edited by HereticPrincess2 (08/11/09 01:34 PM)
_________________________
"The pale dove grins, black at heart ready to flee
Demon to some, angel to others!"
Dimmu Borgir-Hybrid Stigmata

Top
#391223 - 08/11/09 01:54 PM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
G.F.V. Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 1963
I've worked in several retail jobs (and still do to this day), so here's my two cents.

Many, many people in existence are completely rude assholes. Either by choice or by unconscious conditioning. In retail, assholes come in droves.

Generally, I try to be on my best behavior and be as cordial and considerate as possible. But if people are rude to me, that does it. What stops me from telling people to "fuck off and go jump in front of a bus" is that I enjoy my job, I could use the money, and no idiot out there is worth getting fired over.

For example, I have no respect for people that don't say "please" or "thank you", or people that slam their money on the counter (or snatch it out of your hand for no reason), or for people who talk on their cell-phone in line yet expect you to cater to them like there is no one else behind them waiting to be served.

Respect has to be earned. And having poor manners is no way to earn respect. And, though it may seem paradoxical, I really don't care to earn the respect of others who go out of their way to show a complete lack of consideration towards me. They get nothing from me.

Top
#391224 - 08/11/09 01:58 PM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: HereticPrincess2]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Manners is nothing but common sense.

If you lack manners then....
_________________________









Top
#391226 - 08/11/09 02:07 PM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Shade]
Zaftig Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 09/23/06
Posts: 3415
Quote:
Zaftig - Lowering expectations is not the same thing as lowering standards.


Ha! Are you certain I was referring to manners? Because that's usually my approach to dating. wink



Nothing pisses me off more than bad manners through an undeserved sense of self-entitlement, as if others don't deserve your thanks or gratitude.

Bad manners through poor education is forgivable, if unfortunate. Bad manners through snobbery demonstrates severe insecurity.

It's quite classless. Leaves a poor taste in my mouth.

Top
#391230 - 08/11/09 03:14 PM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: G.F.V.]
Delta Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/18/07
Posts: 6756
Loc: Nar
I must offer my retail experience as a counterpoint of sorts: I was the manager and only employee of a bookstore, the only other man involved was the owner, who owned the space and inventory but spent most of his time in another line of work. The man was a Satanist to the core, though I am pretty sure he never read or will read the Satanic Bible. He just happened to act every rule and eschew every sin we've got.

I had no retail experience coming in but still expected to hear "Be polite to every customer, no matter how bad, or you're fired." Not so, his first rule of customer service was "Be polite to a polite customer, but I tell you, if someone acts up to you in my store you kick them the fuck out."

With the exceptions of a lady who was too drugged to walk and one thief who tried to sell us books stolen from our neighbors (We knew this because he neglected to remove the price tag with their name on it, the one they always take off their sold books) we didn't really get any rude customers. Something about the place repelled them, as if the cleanliness and order of it commanded their respect in the same way a Denny's doesn't.

That owner was a good man whose violent life had made him the most responsible, reliable and honest sort. He's proof that the worst upbringing will not always 'create' a bad person, not abuse nor suffering can bring a born Satanist down to the level of common street scum. He was never taught anything resembling manners or politeness but he was the most polite well mannered man I ever met.

My job after that involved working the counter for a hippie's video rental shop, which had an anti-Iraq-war camp out front and an interior forged from rat droppings and rusty nails. Renters never brought back the videos, shoplifters were common, and the customers acted like manic-depressive junkies. To some extent, the quality of the customers might be inspired by the quality of the store.

Please note that I have nothing against Denny's, and eat there often.

Top
#391234 - 08/11/09 04:06 PM Re: The Lack of Manners & Respect... [Re: Amberpocalypse]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11651
Loc: New England, USA
Quote:
Is it solipsism to expect others to have general manners and respect?

It's reasonable to expect some degree of responsibility and courtesy from people. That's because it's impossible go throughout your day without making some assumptions about the people with whom you interact. If I'm in a restaurant, I am assuming that the waiter is not going to serve me my drink by dumping it on my head and punching me in the face. It could happen, but it's not something I'd be constantly on the guard about.

I'd say the solipsism comes into play if you're expecting a lot from lower-class people or very casual events. I don't expect 5-star restaurant manners at an outdoor barbecue ("Elbows off that picnic bench!"). Likewise, I just played with a band at a biker bar on Saturday, and I sure wasn't expecting the staff to act like the staff of the Ritz.

A lot of the rudeness you find in big cities is due to the anonymity that a big population provides. Saying "Fuck off!" to some street vendor in Manhattan is something you can pretty much get away with, because chances are you won't have to see that person ever again. But if you live in a small town where everybody knows each other, and you tell the clerk of the town's only hardware store to fuck off...well word of that could get around, so most people refrain.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Forum Stats
13308 Members
73 Forums
44541 Topics
407970 Posts

Max Online: 197 @ 10/04/11 04:49 AM
Advertisements

hold