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#394381 - 09/10/09 10:44 PM People Don't Give a Shit about You
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
They care about what you do...

To the extent that what you do fulfills their desires somehow.

It is not rocket surgery.

Give people what they want, and they are your best friend.

Fail in that endeavor, and you are immemorable at best, memorable at worst.

That you would endeavor at all means you seek something from others, no matter how seemingly small that something may seem.

Rational Self Interest means serve yourself to the extent that self-service does not wind up a disservice to yourself afterall.

It is not exactly easy. It takes forethought. Failure can occur.

No one is perfect.

Owning your mistakes is the first step toward avoiding them.

Enough one-sentence paragraphs.

Your thoughts?
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#394384 - 09/10/09 11:03 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
Jack_Lantern Offline
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Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Quote:
That you would endeavor at all means you seek something from others, no matter how seemingly small that something may seem.


Have you never done something just to please yourself?
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#394386 - 09/10/09 11:07 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Vitaeviternus


Your thoughts?


Rocket surgery? grin wink

I know...I'm an ass.
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#394388 - 09/10/09 11:11 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Jack_Lantern]
TheDegenerate Offline
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Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 3567
Loc: Cowtown
Originally Posted By: Jack_Lantern
Quote:
That you would endeavor at all means you seek something from others, no matter how seemingly small that something may seem.


Have you never done something just to please yourself?


I abhor the fact that this was clearly written to mimic Magister Nemo's distinctive style, while, unlike Magister Nemo, not saying anything of any real insight of importance. This kind of stuff belongs in "Lesser Magic 101" for being pretty blatantly obvious, apart from the quoted idea that it got wrong. There is a ton of crap I do for myself, and some things I try to do for others. But really not too much in comparison.

Had this been written normally, it wouldn't be worth commenting on at all.


Edited by Phosis (09/10/09 11:12 PM)

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#394390 - 09/10/09 11:21 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
LOL.
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#394391 - 09/10/09 11:22 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Roho_the_Rooster]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024


Edited by Vitaeviternus (09/10/09 11:26 PM)
Edit Reason: Unintentional double post.
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#394393 - 09/10/09 11:25 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheDegenerate]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
I honestly don't know if you are slamming me or Jack Lantern.

I like Magister Nemo's style.
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#394394 - 09/10/09 11:25 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheDegenerate]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024


Edited by Vitaeviternus (09/10/09 11:31 PM)
Edit Reason: Duplicate post.
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#394395 - 09/10/09 11:25 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheDegenerate]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024


Edited by Vitaeviternus (09/10/09 11:31 PM)
Edit Reason: Triplicate post?
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#394400 - 09/11/09 12:24 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheDegenerate]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11560
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: Phosis
I abhor the fact that this was clearly written to mimic Magister Nemo's distinctive style, while, unlike Magister Nemo, not saying anything of any real insight of importance.


I know what you mean.
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#394440 - 09/11/09 09:34 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
John Prophet Offline

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Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 995
Loc: My suburban lair
The problem that I’m having with this is that you’re just not giving us enough. There's no “conclusion” to this idea. You’re expressing a commonly known truth and then just leaving us hanging.

In my writing , I often begin with an idea such as this; but then I explore it more. Can you go deeper on this subject? Do you have any insights or advice you could give us pertaining to this topic? How can we use this information to our advantage?

You just stated the obvious and you didn’t even give us your own opinion on it. Because of this, the only reaction I can have is “yeah, that's how it is and so we have to deal with it and try to use it to our advantage”. Telling us what we already know is not a good way to start a conversation about your original topic; giving us your thoughts on it is!
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#394449 - 09/11/09 12:57 PM Lavengro [Re: TheAbysmal]
ror Offline
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Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 1613
Loc: DracUR, Kalifornien: Yay Area
...or giving people what they want to hear or see is what its about.
Yeah, I would of liked to see more added to what you put up but I guess thats what you were asking from us.
Its also key to not relate too much to what you do making it counterproductive & bordering on the other Satanic Sins.
Suspension of disbelief.
At the same time by one's very nature its sometimes an 'Is, Not Does' scenario.
Such as Satanists being born, not made.
Power over force.
Wattage in other words.
'Looking forward to your replies from the other responses.

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#394453 - 09/11/09 01:06 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: John Prophet]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Your critique is spot on because I felt the exact same way. It was too bland for my taste.
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#394459 - 09/11/09 01:52 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
G.F.V. Offline
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Registered: 12/31/04
Posts: 1951
Loc: NYC
Unfortunately, you really can't always give people what they want. This is because the more you give people what they want, the more prone they are to taking advantage of you and/or demanding a lot more out of you.

Besides, you always have to keep in mind "what am I getting in return?" Or "what do they really want from me in the long term"?

One time is all it takes with certain people. And after that it's like setting the domino effect into action.

The sad, harsh truth is that in some cases, acts of kindness can come with a price that you, yourself are footing the bill for in the end. And you're only setting yourself up for a lose lose situation.

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#394489 - 09/11/09 07:26 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: John Prophet]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
John Prophet,

I was thinking about this post all day. Worried about it, actually.

I expected from the initial replies I got last night that there would be more negative responses. That was my aim for the most part, though not for appearing to emulate Magister Nemo's distinctive style. As I said before, I like his style of writing. Somehow, it comes across more effectively to me, and...

I think emmulation can be a sincere form of flattery.

I would hope Magister Nemo is not bothered by my evident adoption of his layout style. Also, I did not exactly set out to write just like him. I just kinda picked it up as a habit. As Phosis pointed out, while the layout style is similar enough, Magister Nemo's posts certainly show a magnitude of depth and clarity I can hardly match on my best days. (This is the part that worried me. I was not trying to come across as if.)

I did leave my thoughts hanging on the obvious. I did so for two reasons:

1) As ror stated, I actually wanted other's thoughts on "the obvious". What is "plainly obvious" sometimes is not as plainly obvious to everyone as you might think.

2) I wanted to illustrate my obvious point. An experiment if you will.

You did not like the fact that I left my post hanging on an obvious point with no other contribution. You stated so, and appealed to me to rectify my post to meet your satisfaction, to which I am now replying in an attempt to do so.

Why?

Well, the answer goes back to what I first stated, really. I would not be on this board if it did not satisfy me, afterall. And, it does. That I am trying to satisfy you now--and, the other readers at large who feel the same, such as those who can boot me for posting something stupid, for instance--means I am trying to serve myself.

I knew and intended that I would have to defend this post today. I hope it makes sense as an experiment, even if it seems perhaps pointless to some. I was interested in seeing how this would play out. I hope this does not come as a cop out, and in any case, I knew that was a potential hole I was digging, too.

I did not intend to disgust anyone for copying, albeit poorly, Magister Nemo's style. I did not know I would have to defend that, and right off the bat.

So, what is the point of my experiment? Not much beyond curiousity.

Your thoughts?
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#394490 - 09/11/09 07:26 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: John Prophet]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
John Prophet,

I was thinking about this post all day. Worried about it, actually.

I expected from the initial replies I got last night that there would be more negative responses. That was my aim for the most part, though not for appearing to emulate Magister Nemo's distinctive style. As I said before, I like his style of writing. Somehow, it comes across more effectively to me, and...

I think emmulation can be a sincere form of flattery.

I would hope Magister Nemo is not bothered by my evident adoption of his layout style. Also, I did not exactly set out to write just like him. I just kinda picked it up as a habit. As Phosis pointed out, while the layout style is similar enough, Magister Nemo's posts certainly show a magnitude of depth and clarity I can hardly match on my best days. (This is the part that worried me. I was not trying to come across as if.)

I did leave my thoughts hanging on the obvious. I did so for two reasons:

1) As ror stated, I actually wanted other's thoughts on "the obvious". What is "plainly obvious" sometimes is not as plainly obvious to everyone as you might think.

2) I wanted to illustrate my obvious point. An experiment if you will.

You did not like the fact that I left my post hanging on an obvious point with no other contribution. You stated so, and appealed to me to rectify my post to meet your satisfaction, to which I am now replying in an attempt to do so.

Why?

Well, the answer goes back to what I first stated, really. I would not be on this board if it did not satisfy me, afterall. And, it does. That I am trying to satisfy you now--and, the other readers at large who feel the same, such as those who can boot me for posting something stupid, for instance--means I am trying to serve myself.

I knew and intended that I would have to defend this post today. I hope it makes sense as an experiment, even if it seems perhaps pointless to some. I was interested in seeing how this would play out. I hope this does not come as a cop out, and in any case, I knew that was a potential hole I was digging, too.

I did not intend to disgust anyone for copying, albeit poorly, Magister Nemo's style. I did not know I would have to defend that, and right off the bat.

So, what is the point of my experiment? Not much beyond curiousity.

Your thoughts?
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#394491 - 09/11/09 07:29 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Jack_Lantern]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Yes.

My point is, sometimes, to please yourself, you have to please others, even to the point of acquiescence.

Kinda like I am having to do today.
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#394494 - 09/11/09 07:59 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: G.F.V.]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
TheVulture,

You are right. You cannot always give people what they want, at least not in the sense I think you mean. Just look at some of the replies I got so far. You can, however, change what people want, ideally influencing them to want what you can give. Influencing long term desires is probably mostly harder to arrange than short term ones, but just read a bit of Bernays or Lippmann, and see how easy they make it sound. Propaganda/PR is an infinitly interesting industry to study. That does boil down to "What's in it for me?"

Eddy Bernays, for instance, had the task of helping the book industry sell more books that people did not want. (I can't remember why people did not want the books at the moment.) Rather than advertising books, Bernays convinced the house building industry to make home with built in bookshelves.

Suddenly, people wanted books. Books fill empty bookshelves. Bernays makes it sound effortless. I think its genious, and it is that kind of thinking that gives others what they "want" in return for what you or I want.

Reaaly, the idea fascinates me, and it disturbs me, because I am left wondering just how much I have been duped in that fashion (probably much).

You are right. One time is all it takes with certain people. Some people really cannot be easily persuaded. I think that just boils down to how much talent one has developed in the area of influence, and/or how much one really has to offer that others find valuable where influence fails.

Yeah, the world is harsh, and I am really not in disagreement with anything you have said here. I think that footing the bill is maybe a necessary lesson to avoid it in the future, perhaps doing so as I described above.

Thanks.
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#394495 - 09/11/09 08:07 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: ror]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Quote:
...or giving people what they want to hear or see is what its about.


I think so, absolutely. My point exactly, or at least that was my thrust.

Quote:
Its also key to not relate too much to what you do making it counterproductive & bordering on the other Satanic Sins.


Now you have got me wondering if that is just where I bordered here...

Quote:
Lavengro


I had to find that on Google. :lol: None of the above, I think, but thanks for the complement or the good pot shot. Now I have another book to read. Where do you find the time for all of them? Thanks.

Well, what do you think of my replies and idea?
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#394507 - 09/11/09 09:22 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
John Prophet Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 04/06/09
Posts: 995
Loc: My suburban lair
Originally Posted By: Vitaeviternus


1) As ror stated, I actually wanted other's thoughts on "the obvious". What is "plainly obvious" sometimes is not as plainly obvious to everyone as you might think.

This did occur to me, but I just assumed that most people on this board would find it to be plainly obvious.


You did not like the fact that I left my post hanging on an obvious point with no other contribution. You stated so, and appealed to me to rectify my post to meet your satisfaction, to which I am now replying in an attempt to do so.

Why?

Well, the answer goes back to what I first stated, really. I would not be on this board if it did not satisfy me, afterall. And, it does. That I am trying to satisfy you now--and, the other readers at large who feel the same, such as those who can boot me for posting something stupid, for instance--means I am trying to serve myself.

Ironically, the reason that I had a problem with your post (aside from the fact that I felt it was a bad presentation in general; not realizing it was an experiment) is that the way in which it was set up, made it difficult for me to satisfy your question.

When someone states the obvious and then asks you what your thoughts are, it can be very difficult to answer with anything other than “yeah”.




Your thoughts?

Your experiment ends with both of us experiencing unnecessary difficulty while trying to satisfy each other’s questions.
smirk
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#394519 - 09/11/09 11:12 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
ror Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/14/02
Posts: 1613
Loc: DracUR, Kalifornien: Yay Area
You were well intentioned yet we'd all like to have seen a bit more showmanship of course or maybe a punchline. 'Cant please everyone.
Lavengro is a term used in Satan Speaks which is what you've been talking about.
Thank you for your contributions.

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#394524 - 09/12/09 12:05 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: ror]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
ror,

I thought you spoke of Lavengro: The Scholar, the Gypsy, the Priest. I had to flip through to the book to find it: The Liars Club.

Incidently, I never bothered to look it up or it never registered, but the other book looks quite interesting:

I sees a jolly pig in the yard, and I says to my sister, speaking Rommany, "Do so and so," says I; which the farming man hearing, asks what we are talking about. "Nothing at all, master," says I; "something about the weather"; when who should start up from behind a pale, where he has been listening, but this ugly gorgio, crying out, "They are after poisoning your pigs, neighbour!"
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#394531 - 09/12/09 02:36 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Quote:
It is not rocket surgery.


Don't you mean rocket science? wink
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#394535 - 09/12/09 02:49 AM English / Off-Topic [Re: ror]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
I often see Americans write this way... "would of" ... but isn't that incorrect English? Isn't it "would have" instead that's correct?

Thanks.
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#394536 - 09/12/09 02:58 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: SINClair]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10573
Loc: England
Americans on here also keep saying "I will loose my (keys)." or "I want to loose weight." They confuse it with "Loose the dogs."
When they actually mean "lose."

They also keep saying "hotter today then yesterday." Or "Other then this." When they mean "Than."

There are many more examples.

Apart from obvious retard errors such as these, Americans do have some American spellings and phrases that are incorrect in English, but not so in American English.

You must remember that Americans have to be treated like children. Intelligent Americans are considered only average in any other developed nation. And an average American achieves what would be considered bordering on the retarded.
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#394537 - 09/12/09 03:04 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: SINClair]
foreverlearning Offline


Registered: 02/12/08
Posts: 104
"Would of" is a common mistake because we say would've instead of "would have" in our everyday speech. It sounds like "would of" and so is commonly mistyped as such.
Then and than is also a problem, as the Rev. said, because we really usually say "then" when we meen "than" (atleast where I am from). So even though I write them correctly, I actually say them incorrectly.


Edited by foreverlearning (09/12/09 03:05 AM)

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#394538 - 09/12/09 03:06 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Indeed. But words like "loose" when they mean "lose" or "then" when they mean "than", are errors that I have noticed English speakers from everywhere commit, not exclusively Americans... it was just the "would of" that seems to be only Americans that use for some reason.
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#394539 - 09/12/09 03:14 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: foreverlearning]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Quote:
"Would of" is a common mistake because we say would've instead of "would have" in our everyday speech. It sounds like "would of" and so is commonly mistyped as such.


Hmm. You do not say "would've" - you write "would've". You say "would have", what does not sound like "would of" at all. At least not to my ears.

Anyway, my question was answered, it is indeed a writing mistake, so thanks. I don't want to diverge from the original topic for too long.
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#394542 - 09/12/09 03:22 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Well, human beings are social animals, I would think this goes without saying.
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#394543 - 09/12/09 03:25 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheDegenerate]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
I also can not tell if your critiquing me or Phosis. Would you explain please what it is you're referring to with 'this'?
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#394544 - 09/12/09 03:28 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Jack_Lantern Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/06/05
Posts: 2785
Loc: America
Another common problem in America, people often make reference to 'this', when there is no clear contextual clue as to exactly what is mean by 'this'. I don't know how many papers I've edited in which people start an entirely new thought in an entirely new paragraph with the word 'this'.
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#394549 - 09/12/09 04:13 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: SINClair]
LKRice Offline

CoS Priestess

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 6359
Quote:
You say "would have", what does not sound like "would of" at all. At least not to my ears.


It probably stems from people saying "woulda" rather than "would have" when speaking. Phonetically, it translates back to "would of" when written.
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#394552 - 09/12/09 05:49 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
SueW Offline
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Registered: 05/14/06
Posts: 1031
Loc: TN,United States
Come visit us in the Southern US . The language here will stand your hair on end. Instead of saying that they are planning on doing something- the way that it is said here is " I am fixing to..."

Then there is the very popular "usta could". No, Jeff Foxworthy DID NOT make this up." I cannot get to Clarksville by train anymore. But I usta could. "
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#394561 - 09/12/09 08:58 AM Re: Lavengro [Re: ror]
Mr. Obsidian Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 10/29/04
Posts: 3120
Loc: Ohio
Quote:

Its also key to not relate too much to what you do making it counterproductive & bordering on the other Satanic Sins.
Suspension of disbelief.
At the same time by one's very nature its sometimes an 'Is, Not Does' scenario.
Such as Satanists being born, not made.
Power over force.
Wattage in other words.


Frankly, this makes no sense.

Quote:
Its also key to not relate too much to what you do making it counterproductive & bordering on the other Satanic Sins. Suspension of disbelief.


How does one "relate too much" to what one does, and furthermore, how is this bordering on a Satanic sin? Which sin?
What could your first statement possibly have to do with the suspension of disbelief?

Quote:
At the same time by one's very nature its sometimes an 'Is, Not Does' scenario.


What is sometimes an "Is, Not Does" scenario? What does this have to do with a person's nature and how does the statement correlate to the "born, not made" maxim, other than mimicking it's grammatical structure?

Quote:
Power over force.
Wattage in other words.


Put simply, Power equals Force times Velocity.
So, force is an essential component to power, even when speaking in vague metaphors.




Edited by Mr. Obsidian (09/12/09 09:06 AM)
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#394562 - 09/12/09 09:00 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: SueW]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10573
Loc: England
What you are talking about there though, Sue, is idiosyncratic vernacular.

It's quite different to incorrect use of English per se.

It's like here in Uttoxeter. Youth is "Yoth."

I've been to the Southern U.S.A. I like the way they speak. In fact, it's probably my favorite dialect in the States.
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#394563 - 09/12/09 09:25 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: SINClair]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: SINClair
Quote:
It is not rocket surgery.


Don't you mean rocket science? wink


... or brain surgery smile

I think this phrase was intentional, it was introduced by Shade (if I remember correctly) in another topic a while back.
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#394564 - 09/12/09 09:38 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: verszou]
John Prophet Offline

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Registered: 04/06/09
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Originally Posted By: verszou
Originally Posted By: SINClair
Quote:
It is not rocket surgery.


Don't you mean rocket science? wink


... or brain surgery smile

I think this phrase was intentional, it was introduced by Shade (if I remember correctly) in another topic a while back.


Actually, I thought that “rocket surgery” thing, was a deliberate joke on Vitaeviternus’ part. A humorous merging of the two popular sayings, which are designed to mean basically the same thing.
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#394574 - 09/12/09 01:09 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: John Prophet]
Cryptodelic Offline


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 134
Loc: Seattle
People are interested in, or care about what you do to fulfill their desires, so by giving people what they want, they are your best friend?

Not exactly.

We are always communicating, sending and receiving social information, much of which is non verbal, so if you want someone to view you as “your best friend”, you need to direct the quality of your communication specifically to establish a deep level of rapport.

According to Robert Cialdini, different tactics can be employed to produce a desired reaction, the majority fall within six basic categories including consistency, reciprocation, social proof, authority, liking, and scarcity.

Reciprocity may produce an undesired reaction if you come off as a fawning sycophant, or create a feeling of unwanted obligation. Cialdini cites the example of women who allow men to buy drinks for them in bars, and then feel obligated to have sex in return.

Or perhaps your scheme requires that you are viewed as holding a higher social value than your would be pal, and your presentment of attention or goods might seem to be overt patronizing, this unwarranted gifting may actually lower your perceived social value.

Within the social dynamics of casual dating, approval seeking behavior might not create a feeling of attraction within your seduction target, and may diminish any initial attraction that may exist.


Consider searching for: rule of reciprocation

fix 'merikin anglish, pert near anyways
stuck between in one ear and out the hard place


Edited by Cryptodelic (09/12/09 04:01 PM)
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#394582 - 09/12/09 05:23 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: SINClair]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
No... Brain science.
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#394583 - 09/12/09 05:49 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Cryptodelic]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
I agree, Cryptodelic. I was speaking figuratively of "best friend".

All the same, the way you approach it is interesting to me. For instance, approval seeking behavior on a casual date may diminish attraction. Attraction, I would think, is the goal, and seeking approval is not the answer. It is not what people want, in other words.

Giving people what they want does not immediately translate to approval seeking or even buying drinks at the bar. Volumes have been written on what women really want. Even so-called pickup artists who achieve legendary success doing what leads to sex fail in building a lasting relationship. Incidently, a pickup artist wrote a book on just that subject, and I have enough of those books, I cannot remember which it was.

I have read about the rule of reciprocity. Maybe Robert Greene or Wikipedia? Probably both.

Really, you explicated where I did not: It is not exactly easy.

Thanks. smile
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#394585 - 09/12/09 07:05 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Mr. Obsidian,

I think people can relate too much to what they do. All the time, people say things like I am a cook, or I am a student, or etc. The degree to which people relate to these terms they use is anyone's guess, and what is too much is perhaps largely subjective. Even I do it and consider there may be a big distinction between I am a Soldier in the Army and I soldier in the Army. Maybe the English language makes it easier to say I am rather than I do, or maybe the ease is found in societal norms. Regardless, I do not think saying it is as bad as believing it. In my job alone, I know plenty of men whose options are close to zero because they cling to the notion, "I am a Ranger," and see no other avenue, even in the Army.

That this inclination to relate to what one does to the point of deeply identifying with it "border[s] on the other Satanic Sins" might not mean that it borders any given one of them. I think ror meant that it is perhaps so unuseful, that it could be a Satanic Sin. Had Anton LaVey included it, it would have been. That he did not, the best ror can maybe say is that it borders on the other Satanic Sins.

Or, maybe ror even meant Self-deceit, which I think fits nicely, too. Wholly identifying with what we do could be a sacred cow, and Anton LaVey mentions roles in the Fourth Satanic Sin.

Is, not does. Born, not made. Is born, not does ma[ke].

The Satanist is born. He does not make or force Satanism to be his philosophy. I do not think that would even work. Though, Satanism is something with which one identifies. I think identifying with Satanism works because it is not a role to be filled. I think ror was just driving at this exception.i

Power over force simply means that it is better to apply force where it belongs rather than applying force for application's sake. You pointed out that power is force times velocity, velocity entailing direction.

I imagine ror was hinting at the idea that giving people what they want--to get what one wants--might be as simple as not detroying the notions with which they identify.

Granted, ror's posts can be difficult to digest, not always being immediately clear--and perhaps I am completely wrong--but that is half their fun for me.
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#394589 - 09/12/09 07:34 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: TheAbysmal]
Shade Offline
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This thread is making my brain cry. frown



"I wish I could say everything there is to say in one word. I hate all the things that can happen between the beginning of a sentence and the end." ~ Leonard Cohen
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#394590 - 09/12/09 07:38 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Shade]
Quaark Offline

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Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8870
Should a kindly Mod put this thread out of it's misery and lock it? Of all people. I hate to see your brain cry.

rip coopdevil wink
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#394591 - 09/12/09 07:56 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Quaark]
Shade Offline
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You are such a gentleman, Mr. Daark. smile blush

I don't mean to crash the party though. I'm just having an awful hard time eking sense out of some of these posts. I dunno, I might be the only one who needs a decoder ring. Wouldn't be the first time. grin
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#394594 - 09/12/09 08:18 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Shade]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
That is cute.
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#394595 - 09/12/09 08:26 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: TheAbysmal]
Cryptodelic Offline


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 134
Loc: Seattle
Vitaeviternus, nothing personal, but your writings are becoming increasingly opaque, at least to me, so I apologize that I can't seem to follow your reasoning, or discern if your even making a point.
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#394597 - 09/12/09 09:01 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Cryptodelic]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Cryptodelic,

I do not take your remarks as a personal attack.

As far as saying "That is cute", I was merely saying that I thought the picture of the hamster with a pancake on his head was cute. And, that I am not interested in keeping this thread alive.

I thought that maybe interesting points might develop in discussion. None really did. My little experiment failed miserably. It turned out to be stupid. No big deal.
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#394600 - 09/12/09 09:11 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: TheAbysmal]
Frosty Offline


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington State
It's a shame I didn't join earlier; I would've had a heyday with this discussion.

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#394601 - 09/12/09 09:16 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Frosty]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Well, Frosty, it is not locked yet.
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#394602 - 09/12/09 09:30 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: TheAbysmal]
Frosty Offline


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington State
It hardly seems I can insert myself into the discussion now, but for it's own sake, my two cents are thus:

Being utterly confined by my existence as a finite sentience, I have no concept of an existence as an alternative finite sentience. As such, it is beyond my capacity to relate to another individual beyond appearance and introspection. Ultimately, I can't care for others in the true sense; I only value what I get from them or how I feel around or in reaction to them. Good feeling from charity or "altruism" is put in place for the same reason it feels good to eat, sleep, and shit: it's a basic survival mechanism (the individual can hardly exist without the tribe). In no way is this to speak ill of mankind to call it shallow or self serving; this Psychological Egoism is simply the least complex and most efficient system by which a group of organisms will support the species, and Nature always takes the path of least resistance. Every marvel and phenomenon in the Universe is the absolute least complicated way things could be.

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#394606 - 09/12/09 10:17 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Frosty]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Frosty,

It seems to me you inserted yourself into the conversation well, if only risking obviousness as I did.

I like how you equate charitable contribution with shitting. While the remark even makes me snicker a bit, I think puts things in the category of "it just feels good" where it makes sense. Still, I disagree with charity being soley a survival mechanism. Where shitting really is necessary to survive--and the body will find a way do it--I can get away with not donating to charitable organizations or homeless people who ask for a buck. If and when I do donate, I do not think it translates into survival as much as just feeling good for the sake of feeling good. If it does, it does through so many levels of indirection that I miss it. In terms of the tribe, yep. I just would not call it charity.

I do not think mankind is shallow as a rule, but I do think mankind is self-serving as a rule and many people simply fail to see it that way. Their failure to see themselves that way allows them to imagine ideals as altruism that simply do not work for them. That can affect survival. It can mean the difference from rolling away from or jumping on the grenade.

I like the clincher, too, and if you excluded human phenomena, probably spot on.
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#394609 - 09/12/09 10:24 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: TheAbysmal]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Quote:
My little experiment failed miserably. It turned out to be stupid. No big deal.


An experiment is a test or trial to discover something unknown. It is also used to test a principle or supposition. So I think thje question is what exactly were you attempting to test? If you stated so in another post I apologize as I have not read all of the posts here.
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#394610 - 09/12/09 10:28 PM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Unknown Offline
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Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Based upon your post Reverend I walked my happy ass to a used bookstore and started looking through the piles of books based upon linguistics. I picked up Logic and Language by Bernard F. Huppe and Jack Kaminisky. I hope this will improve my use of English. grin



Edited by Unknown (09/13/09 01:12 AM)
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#394614 - 09/12/09 11:15 PM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Phineas Offline
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You must remember that Americans have to be treated like children. Intelligent Americans are considered only average in any other developed nation. And an average American achieves what would be considered bordering on the retarded.

Except when such developed nations come crawling on their knees for money. Then Americans are the best on the planet.grin
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#394617 - 09/13/09 12:15 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Philotechnic Offline

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Registered: 08/02/07
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Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
You must remember that Americans have to be treated like children. Intelligent Americans are considered only average in any other developed nation. And an average American achieves what would be considered bordering on the retarded.


We're doing pretty good considering what rubble you Brits started us with. laugh

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#394619 - 09/13/09 12:40 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Philotechnic]
Jack_Lantern Offline
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Registered: 07/06/05
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America is what you get when you send all of your religious nuts to die in a forest across the ocean. That plan failed and now Europe has to deal with its prom night dumpster baby, America.



Edited by Jack_Lantern (09/13/09 12:44 AM)
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#394620 - 09/13/09 12:44 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Phineas]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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Registered: 06/25/02
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>> Except when such developed nations come crawling on their knees for money. Then Americans are the best on the planet <<

Already addressed by Magus Gilmore:

"And we're the stupid ones for giving it to them."


grin grin grin
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#394623 - 09/13/09 01:40 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Phineas Offline
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Magus Gilmore? Isn't he an American?

Perhaps your blanket statement needs some rethinking. wink








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"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


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#394624 - 09/13/09 02:02 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Phineas]
Frosty Offline


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: "Vitaeviternus"
I can get away with not donating to charitable organizations or homeless people who ask for a buck.If and when I do donate, I do not think it translates into survival as much as just feeling good for the sake of feeling good.

It's the same mechanism, not the same scale; especially not in modern society. We still have wisdom teeth and appendixes, yeah? Tribe mentality is a left over triviality.

Originally Posted By: "Vitaeviternus"
I like the clincher, too, and if you excluded human phenomena, probably spot on.

Even human action is the path of least resistance. Even it appears otherwise, it's to avoid something more complicated, like guilt, for example. Humans aren't above physics.

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#394625 - 09/13/09 02:07 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Frosty]
Phineas Offline
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Registered: 08/16/06
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What does your reply have to do with my post?
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"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#394629 - 09/13/09 03:21 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Frosty]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Quote:
It's the same mechanism, not the same scale; especially not in modern society. We still have wisdom teeth and appendixes, yeah? Tribe mentality is a left over triviality.


That is quite an interesting way to look at charity, and that it could be an inherited vestigial behavior is entirely possible. I likely have much vestigial behavior from say, childhood. While I am uncertain of how much nature versus nurture affects human behavior, I think both definitely play a role. Nice. This is something I will think about for a while.

Quote:
Even human action is the path of least resistance. Even it appears otherwise, it's to avoid something more complicated, like guilt, for example. Humans aren't above physics.


I do not quite agree, or perhaps I misunderstand something fundamental--I am no physisist. I think that humans may or may not be "above physics" as you put it, and really I might say "beneath physics". I think that humans do not necessarily act on all information available to them, and may not even be aware of some information at all. Ignorance can obscure the path of least resistance. Flowing water or electricity, on the other hand, appears to use all information available for it to take the path of least resistance. There is nothing hidden from water or electricity for it to somehow flow otherwise, uphill or through an insulator for instance.

I do think that humans seek the path of least resistance, however. (And, I am not just trying to play word salad here or match wits as it were.) The idea of charity as a vestigial behaviorial mechanism for survival even makes sense in that respect. I think humans seek the least resistant path with only the information they have available and choose to consider, and in doing so, take whatever path seems least resistant. In other words, humans have to think, weigh options, and make decisions (or not), and water just flows.

Am I making much sense?

Thanks for the reply, Frosty. You have given me some ideas to consider, and I am curious of your thoughts on the seek/take argument I posed.
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#394630 - 09/13/09 03:22 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Frosty]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024


Edited by Vitaeviternus (09/13/09 03:24 AM)
Edit Reason: Duplicate Post
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#394631 - 09/13/09 03:22 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Frosty]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024


Edited by Vitaeviternus (09/13/09 03:25 AM)
Edit Reason: Duplicate Post
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#394632 - 09/13/09 03:22 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Frosty]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024


Edited by Vitaeviternus (09/13/09 03:26 AM)
Edit Reason: Duplicate Post
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#394633 - 09/13/09 03:29 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Phineas]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Magister Phineas,

His post was in reply to me. I cannot say for sure that he is experiencing the same thing, but the board has been acting funny for me, posting many copies of my replies upon submission.
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#394634 - 09/13/09 03:29 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: Phineas]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024


Edited by Vitaeviternus (09/13/09 03:34 AM)
Edit Reason: Like this one.
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#394648 - 09/13/09 07:30 AM Re: Lavengro [Re: TheAbysmal]
Shade Offline
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Registered: 07/08/06
Posts: 6135
Loc: A Trailer Park
Originally Posted By: Vitaeviternus
... the hamster with a pancake on his head was cute.


Well, at least you didn't call Original Sly a hamster. grin

(Hint: Pancake-bunny is a bunny, not a hamster. I'm afraid that is the limit to what I can contribute to this thread. I'm going to go put a pancake on my head now. smile )
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#394667 - 09/13/09 12:52 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Shade]
Frosty Offline


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: "Vitaeviternus"
I do not quite agree, or perhaps I misunderstand something fundamental

Allow me to clarify; human psychology is not above physics. Consider this: An object in motion tends to stay in motion, and if a wo/man leaves her/his romantic partner especially for another one, there's a good chance s/he'll leave that one for another again. A girl I knew back in highschool left a friend of mine for me, then left me for another friend, then left him for a coworker all in a span of two years.
An object at rest tends to stay at rest, and the longer an individual adheres to a routine or specific way of life, the more difficult it is to adjust to any other. Institutionalization is an adequate example: convicts committing crimes right before they're about to get out of prison because they now fear the outside just as much as they used to fear the inside. It also works with relationships: the longer one exists, the less likely it'll end.

Originally Posted By: "Viv"
I think humans seek the least resistant path with only the information they have available and choose to consider, and in doing so, take whatever path seems least resistant. In other words, humans have to think, weigh options, and make decisions.

And with that consideration, take the least difficult path. At that point, it was simpler as a whole for the individual not to be entirely informed.


Edited by Frosty (09/13/09 12:54 PM)

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#394668 - 09/13/09 01:13 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Frosty]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Frosty
Originally Posted By: "Vitaeviternus"
I do not quite agree, or perhaps I misunderstand something fundamental

Allow me to clarify; human psychology is not above physics. Consider this: An object in motion tends to stay in motion, and if a wo/man leaves her/his romantic partner especially for another one, there's a good chance s/he'll leave that one for another again. A girl I knew back in highschool left a friend of mine for me, then left me for another friend, then left him for a coworker all in a span of two years.
An object at rest tends to stay at rest, and the longer an individual adheres to a routine or specific way of life, the more difficult it is to adjust to any other. Institutionalization is an adequate example: convicts committing crimes right before they're about to get out of prison because they now fear the outside just as much as they used to fear the inside. It also works with relationships: the longer one exists, the less likely it'll end.


Physics often get abused by people who want to add some extra credibility to their arguments, even though the examples they apply physics to had nothing to do with that area in the first place.

The examples and the anecdotal evidence you bring out here has nothing to do with physics but a lot to do with human psychology. The laws of physics you mention are based on general repeatable experiments. You now select anecdotal stories and subgroups of people and try to pass it off as some convergence of two areas that does not exist.

All I need to do is bring about af few other anecdotal pieces of 'evidence' of people who "got around" in their youth and ended up "settling down" with one partner and your whole alleged proof falls apart.
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#394669 - 09/13/09 01:15 PM Re: BOB [Re: Frosty]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
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Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10573
Loc: England
Frosty,

I agree with what you're saying in regards to human psychology.

Off topic, but...

No real reason or problem, I'm simply curious. Are you a member of the Church Of The Sub-Genius? I ask because that's "Bob" you've got as your avatar.
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#394673 - 09/13/09 02:39 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Frosty]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
I had considered the idea that information gathering itself contributes to resistance. I wondered if that is where you might have gone, and you did. I was trying to avoid that area, not because I feel it is damning to my argument necessarily--and it could be--but because I lack the language needed to state what I mean exactly and understandably.

I am not disuaded, but I also think you present your position well, and I am thinking on it. And, yes... Your character is quite shining through your posts as you stated in your introduction. smile
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#394675 - 09/13/09 02:58 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
Evilives Offline


Registered: 08/29/09
Posts: 14
I don't give. Not even a shit.
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#394678 - 09/13/09 03:19 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Evilives]
Frosty Offline


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: "Strongbone"
No real reason or problem, I'm simply curious. Are you a member of the Church Of The Sub-Genius? I ask because that's "Bob" you've got as your avatar.

Oh I'm familiar with "Bob". I'm as much a member as you really can be.

Originally Posted By: "verszou"
You now select anecdotal stories and subgroups of people and try to pass it off as some convergence of two areas that does not exist.

I'll provide scientifically demonstrable evidence for my argument when you can provide scientifically demonstrable evidence against it.

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#394679 - 09/13/09 03:41 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Frosty]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Well, the Church of the Sub-Genius has quite the funny site. I am not entirely sure what to make of it, but I just had to order some of their books. Very interesting in a "Real Ultimate Power Ninja" kind of way. smile
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#394696 - 09/13/09 07:30 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Frosty]
John Prophet Offline

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Originally Posted By: Frosty
I'll provide scientifically demonstrable evidence for my argument when you can provide scientifically demonstrable evidence against it.


Verszou is correct, what you’re describing is not physics. At best you’re just using physics as an analogy for psychology and social interaction.

He doesn’t need to “provide scientifically demonstrable evidence against it” because your argument has no real scientific basis to begin with (and I would think that this should be obvious).

All he was saying was that what you’re talking about has nothing to do with physics and he is absolutely right!


Edited by John Prophet (09/13/09 07:30 PM)
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#394700 - 09/13/09 08:39 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: John Prophet]
Frosty Offline


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington State
Quote:
Verszou is correct, what you’re describing is not physics. At best you’re just using physics as an analogy for psychology and social interaction.

That's... exactly what I'm doing, yes. If I construed it otherwise, it was not my intention.

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#394707 - 09/13/09 10:19 PM Re: Lavengro [Re: Mr. Obsidian]
ror Offline
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Posts: 1613
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By being malleable in one's assumptions with interactions, other possibilities of empowerment can arise. Thats where suspension of disbelief enters. In taking a step back, one can choose other options not ordinarily available when approaching things solipsistically.
A slight shift in perspective is all thats required. No physical action need be taken. That is where 'Is, Not Does' (from the LaVeyan Glossary of Terms) enters & power over force (which is best illustrated by the Dark Knight quote, This is what happens when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.”) is understood.

Its all about conservation of energy. ‘Much like getting your surroundings to come to you rather than going to it as noted by the Doktor in Satan Speaks. Why ‘do’ anything for others when you can just be & this is where wattage comes in & is defined in the Satanic Witch under Bitchcraft which is a stratification distillation.
Because of what we are by our nature, by the dark current that ever flows, we are always first to feast.

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#394713 - 09/14/09 12:12 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Frosty]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Frosty

Originally Posted By: "verszou"
You now select anecdotal stories and subgroups of people and try to pass it off as some convergence of two areas that does not exist.

I'll provide scientifically demonstrable evidence for my argument when you can provide scientifically demonstrable evidence against it.


Which is akin to creationists saying that since you cannot disprove the existence of god then you must accept that he exists.

A good theory should explain all the facts, not just some of them, the ones who are most convenient to you. It should do so in a simpler way than the existing ones.

Both your examples, which as Reverend Strongbone pointed out, are interesting observations of human psychology, can also be explained well within that field. So adding claims that physics has anything to do with it just adds complexity that is not needed.



Edited by verszou (09/14/09 11:10 AM)
Edit Reason: Spelling misteak
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#394726 - 09/14/09 03:09 AM Re: English / Off-Topic [Re: LKRice]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: LKRice

It probably stems from people saying "woulda" rather than "would have" when speaking. Phonetically, it translates back to "would of" when written.


That's messing with the would of my have too mucho now, it's getting confusing. :P
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"Wer Nichts Wagt, Kann Nichts Verlieren"

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#394727 - 09/14/09 03:12 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: verszou]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: verszou


... or brain surgery smile

I think this phrase was intentional, it was introduced by Shade (if I remember correctly) in another topic a while back.


That's the problem with using inside jokes with outsiders, it doesn't have the same effect.
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"Wer Nichts Wagt, Kann Nichts Verlieren"

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#394728 - 09/14/09 03:16 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Frosty]
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
Originally Posted By: Frosty

Oh I'm familiar with "Bob". I'm as much a member as you really can be.



As much a member as anyone can be, provided they can crack Bob's math problem that is. Does everyone get that when applying for membership with The Church Of Subgenius?
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"Wer Nichts Wagt, Kann Nichts Verlieren"

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#394736 - 09/14/09 08:57 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Frosty]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10573
Loc: England
>> Oh I'm familiar with "Bob". I'm as much a member as you really can be. <<


Well, what happened to Bob's other pipe?

I recall Bob usually had two pipes. grin

Really though, what happened to Bob's other pipe? What's gone wrong? Did he lose it?
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www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#394744 - 09/14/09 10:03 AM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
reprobate Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 7140
Loc: Canada
When I hear someone say "people", I always have to ask, "Which people?" Strangers? Family?

Some people surround themselves with "friends" who don't actually give a shit about them. Are you saying you are in that position?

I'm happy to have people in my life who are not too cool to put themselves out a bit to help me when it counts, and I try to do the same.

But perhaps they are not "people" in your sense of the term.
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reprobate

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#394762 - 09/14/09 12:39 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: reprobate]
Frosty Offline


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: "verszou"
Both your examples, which as Reverend Strongbone pointed out, are interesting observations of human psychology, can also be explained well within that field. So adding claims that physics has anything to do with it just adds complexity that is not needed.

I would argue that separating psychology from physical laws would be adding more complexity, but I don't think this is a topic either of us can definitively prove our cases for here.

Originally Posted By: "Strongbone"
Really though, what happened to Bob's other pipe? What's gone wrong? Did he lose it?

I've read the entire Book of the Subgenius, and "Bob" always had one pipe; I've never seen otherwise.


Edited by Frosty (09/14/09 12:39 PM)

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#394764 - 09/14/09 12:47 PM Re: Bob "two pipes" Dobbs. [Re: Frosty]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10573
Loc: England
>> I've read the entire Book of the Subgenius, and "Bob" always had one pipe; I've never seen otherwise <<

I am afraid it is so.

The Church of SubGenius must have changed the image. In the late eighties / early nineties when I first came across them Bob had two pipes.



Attachments
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www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#394769 - 09/14/09 01:31 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Frosty]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Frosty
Originally Posted By: "verszou"
Both your examples, which as Reverend Strongbone pointed out, are interesting observations of human psychology, can also be explained well within that field. So adding claims that physics has anything to do with it just adds complexity that is not needed.

I would argue that separating psychology from physical laws would be adding more complexity, but I don't think this is a topic either of us can definitively prove our cases for here.


Why not? If you claim to be right about something that contradicts current scientific methods it stands to reason that you should at least provide something more than anecdotal evidence.

As was already said earlier in this discussion, the established tradition does not need to disprove new claims, new claims need to prove that they are superior to what has already been established.

Flying teapots of spaghetti monsters are not acceptable just beacause somebody claim their existence.

I believe this is now argument from ignorance - are you going through the whole list of logical fallacies in order to prove this connection between the laws of physics and psychology?
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#394773 - 09/14/09 02:24 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I don't think it is possible to remind ourselves of important ideas such as these too much.

Thank you.

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#394783 - 09/14/09 05:06 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2209
People DO give a shit about me. Why? Because I am the SHIT!

Whether it's good shit or bad shit, people do give me shit. I get shit for gifts. I get shit from the haters. It all boils down to the same shit.

Shit! Everytime I wake up in the morning, I smile and tell myself in the mirror, "Damn homie! You are definitely the SHIT!" Then I pick out some shit I bought at the store and put that shit on because everything I wear is the shit and the shit looks good on me.

I'm done with this shit. Y'all can continue on.
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#394803 - 09/14/09 09:55 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Nemo]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
Magister Nemo,

Thank you.
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Refuse to die.

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#394810 - 09/14/09 11:06 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: TheAbysmal]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12573
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
You are most welcome.

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#394854 - 09/15/09 12:18 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Nemo]
Frosty Offline


Registered: 09/12/09
Posts: 9
Loc: Washington State
Originally Posted By: "Strongbone"
The Church of SubGenius must have changed the image. In the late eighties / early nineties when I first came across them Bob had two pipes.

Certainly new to me.


Originally Posted By: "verszou"
Why not? If you claim to be right about something that contradicts current scientific methods it stands to reason that you should at least provide something more than anecdotal evidence.

I have reached my presented conclusions through observation. I don't find "official scientific research" to be very reliable considering how often it goes back on itself and changes. Our lack of understanding of the brain leaves me to scoff at the theories of "experts". I have seen this trend occur, and now I'm just running with it. It hasn't let me down thus far, anyway.

This tangent between you and I has reached its productive capacity.


Edited by Frosty (09/15/09 12:19 PM)

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#394859 - 09/15/09 12:55 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Frosty]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8870
If this thread were a train, we'd now be at the point where the vultures have finished picking all the good meat off the bones of the victims of the massive wreck and left the rest for the maggots, the survivors have all gone back to their lives, the media is no longer interested, and the NTSB is about done with their investigation.

My thread locking finger is twitching...
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T’aa hwo’ aaji t’eego.

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#394866 - 09/15/09 03:00 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: Quaark]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1813
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Daark

My thread locking finger is twitching...


By all means put it out of it's misery Reverend.

smile
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#394868 - 09/15/09 03:44 PM Re: People Don't Give a Shit about You [Re: G.F.V.]
ArtAche86 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Cthulhu's Bowels,Kentucky
Originally Posted By: TheVulture
Unfortunately, you really can't always give people what they want. This is because the more you give people what they want, the more prone they are to taking advantage of you and/or demanding a lot more out of you.


The phrase, "Give them an inch, and they will take a mile." comes to mind.

It has been said that even when we perform an "act of kindness" for someone else, that we still do it because it makes US feel good. It makes us feel good, to know that we made someone else feel good.

It is this realization,that had me asking, "Exactly, how many acts are TRULY selfless? And if they are truly selfless, why did we do them, getting NOTHING in return?"

I guess what I am saying is that I wouldn't jump in front of a bullet for just any old asshole. That would be a truly selfless act. And it would be a truly stupid one. Who needs another dead hero? And dead people can't read newspaper articles about themselves "jumping in front of a bullet, for Tom Dick Harrison, a 38 year old sales-clerk at Sears, who enjoys ping-pong, and writing hate tweets on Twitter".
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