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#39725 - 05/14/04 10:24 AM Re: A shocking confession. [Re: Bill_M]
Dan_Dread Offline

Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Good point.
You are very wise.
Maybe you can fill me in on the mysteries of the caramilk bar sometime?
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

#39726 - 05/14/04 10:51 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11465
Loc: New England, USA
>>The Question: "What would you do if it could be proven to
>>you beyond any doubt that there is a "God"?"

I've had this question posed to me several times, and in short, my answer is that I wouldn't do anything.

One of the problems I've always had with this question is that "God" is such a vague term. If he's simply defined as the creator of the universe, then it begs the question of whether or not he plays any role (or even cares) about human affairs. So it becomes a question of theism vs. deism.

If we DO assume that this deity interacts or cares about human affairs, then it futher begs the question of whether or not he punishes people based on certain actions. If we futher assume THAT too, then we just come to another question of how one avoids punishment. Be a Muslim? Jew? Xtian?

And even then, you have different sects of the same religion claiming to have the "right" instructions. This is the classic "avoiding the wrong hell" problem.

Somebody recently asked me "If you died and saw God, what would he say to you?" My answer was "Well done, Bill. You did it all without ever bugging me for help!"
Reverend Bill M. Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now! Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

#39727 - 05/14/04 11:00 AM Re: A shocking confession. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11465
Loc: New England, USA
>>Maybe you can fill me in on the mysteries of the caramilk
>>bar sometime?

I've heard theories, but they're really nothing but guesses from snooty skeptics. Damn those heathens! One day the great Chic of Cadsbury will unleash their wrath on them.
Reverend Bill M. Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now! Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's ‹bersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

#39728 - 05/14/04 03:08 PM I want to believe... [Re: Nemo]
pippin Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 513
Loc: Sweden

I have seen the Easter Bunny.
And Santa Claus.
In shopping malls.
But never at the same time.

Could they be one and the same?

I believe not...

217344-EB&Tx.jpg (12 downloads)

Enjoy the silence...

#39729 - 05/14/04 04:33 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Basil_theOgre Offline

Registered: 01/30/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I read your post and knew that it'd bring a new batch of trash-talkers out of the woodwork. I actually haven't had to "ignore" anyone new in quite a while. So, right off the bat I'd like to thank you for helping me to pare down the amount of crap I have to filter through when reading the LttD. Kudos.

As to your question, let me first say that I've considered the possibility quite thoroughly, and don't believe that it CAN be proved to me the "HE" exists. I won't get into the details (I may have to write a book about it one day. Would I call it "Definitive Proof that God CAN'T Exist!" ? Watch for it at B&N), but I can't make the logic equation balance out. Be that as it may, if hypothetically I could be convinced that He exists, there would be only one thing to do. And my answer is SURE to bring out any of the trash-talking no-minds I've yet to add to my "ignore" list.

The only thing to do would be Suicide. Yup, you heard me. The ultimate Satanic Sin. And, coincidentally, the ultimate Xtian Sin too. You see, discovering that God as we've been taught to understand Him exists, would be a betrayal of everything I've come to understand and believe about myself and the universe. His existense, partly because I currently believe that to be impossible, contradicts the meaning of my life. AND it contradicts the meanings of the lives of everyone around me, everyone that has ever lived, and anyone who'll ever live. His existense would also be incompatible with my understanding of Satanism, so despite my desperate, ecstatic, consuming love of life, and of MY life in particular, I would NOT want to live in a world where He exists. I most certainly wouldn't want to be "forgiven" by Him, nor "accepted" into His Heaven. So, it would seem that Suicide would be the best way to rid myself of a universe that makes no sense, and that doesn't belong to me, and to guarantee my eternal freedom from Him and all things His.

Call me weak, or non-Satanist, or whatever you like, but I think that's how I feel. Feel free to try and change my mind if you like, but be warned: Ignorant, one-line replies will only get you ignored, so if you're tempted to reply that way, don't bother wasting the bandwidth.
I can finally see it, but Hell's still a long climb away.

#39730 - 05/14/04 05:11 PM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Basil_theOgre]
Powaqqatsi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 396
Loc: Hungary
Do you really think that by suicide you could escape from YHWH?

Have you ever heard of "Hell"? You know, according to the Bible (the abrahamic one) this is the place where all the dead sinners go to suffer eternally. By Christian standards after death there is no "nirvana", so there's no "guaranteed eternal freedom" if you play by THEIR rules. On the contrary, they say that after a while everyone shall be resurrected, then judged, and the good guys go to Heaven, and the baddies go to a fiery lake.

By killing yourself you're not only become a resident (read: prisoner) of Hell, but you're throwing away your life.

So you would choose abstinence instead of indulgence? Of course, if you're a masochist who enjoys bathing in flames, then by all means pick up a knife or a gun, or a rope and express yourself! ...If the mean old scapeGod really exists...

There are far worse entities among us than God. Yes, I refer to his followers, who are real and they're even bigger assholes than their God.

#39731 - 05/14/04 08:33 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Ringu Offline

Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 144
Loc: NRW, Germany, Earth
How can "God" exist if i do, already?
In fact i exist so "God" cannot be for real
every causation has its own special effect

#39732 - 05/15/04 07:19 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Ringu]

That just put a smile on my face, I had to thank you for making my day.


#39733 - 05/15/04 07:58 AM Thank you for being honest and thoughtful [Re: SilverHammer]

I just want to talk you for your post's being honest with yourself and an answer. I don't think that every person on this board would change themselves if it were true, but I do know it's alot more than just you. It's the fact that such an idea is so crazy and stupid that it's next to impossible to honestly picture it. But if "God" is real, then that means all of these "crazies" shouting John 3:16 at football games are on to something. That means all of the other stuff might be real too. And though we all have a list of things we'd want to know from God if they are right about the other things then all the reasons he'll give you won't make any sense. The average priest's responce to why God made us in the first place, "because he loved us." That is the dogma in that Catholic faith, I don't want to waste my time on that if all the other answers are that half-assed.

Except maybe if he can make that rock.

#39734 - 05/15/04 11:33 PM Uh huh.
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12416
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
"If wishes were horses Beggars would ride.
If turnips were watches I'd wear one by my side."

If God were real, the Bible would be true.
If Jesus came back, we'd just tell him "Shoo!"

If there were no IRS, US citizens wouldn't have to pay taxes.

If it didn't get dark at night you wouldn't need light to see.

If you didn't get hungry you wouldn't have to eat.

Good grief.

This thread is pointless.
The Achievement of Infinite Self-Esteem
Nemo on Satanism - an mp3 audio program


Nemo On Satanism: Volume One
Satanic Sources - Print

My 9sense interview on Greater Magic:

#39735 - 05/16/04 12:15 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Skyla Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 495
I'm born in a catholic family and therefore I know alot about the jealous God of the Christians which says: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." What sense would make such a commandment, if the God of the Christians is the only one possible to believe in? I think, if there really exists something like the christian God it makes no difference for me. I'm my own God and do my will, if he has a problem with that, he has to destroy me. May the best win. I have no problem with competitors.
One life. Live it.

#39736 - 05/16/04 03:54 AM I think I speak for most....
Moria Offline

Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 50
Your question is pointless. The existence of any god or gods cannot be proven. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide what you believe in. Will you believe in what you can take in with your five senses, or will you believe in what is make-believe.

Ideally, you should be comfortable leaving a big question mark over the whole range of questions that involve what happens when we die, does god(s) exist, etc.
"Satanism has become a gravitational force. We know that it doesn't matter what you were before. Once you discover your Satanic persona, that's it. You knew it was lurking inside you. You just couldn't quite conceptualize it." - Anton Szandor LaVey

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