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#39680 - 05/13/04 04:30 AM A Ponderable Question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Feel free to scroll straight to the question at the bottom, the rest is for explain any questions that might arise.

I am writing this post simply because I have been trying to answer a question that I asked myself and it's really had me thinking about beliefs in general. I don't want anyone to take it the wrong way in that I can see how that could happen. I'm not trying to change anyone or anything, including myself. I just feel that if I've required others to answer it, I should chew on it myself.

Often when talking to Xtians about beliefs, most often in non-confrontational conversations, I like to ask them one question. "If I could prove to you beyond any doubt that there is and never has been such a thing as "God" what would you do?" I've learned that strong people will say that they would be happy because all of the things they felt they needed someone's aid with they did alone. Meanwhile, weaker people either argue it so that there's no point, or express sadness because there is no longer someone looking over them. I one night asked myself what I would do if someone proved to me that there is a god out there. This is something that I almost can't fathom. I don't know if it's because I'm so sure that it's untrue, or if there's another reason. But I can't figure out what is making this question so impossible to answer. I guess that the information would force me to reconsider so much that it would almost be like becoming another person entirely. Although I'm sure there is no such being as "god" if I'm wrong then oh well. I wasted part of my life looking for it, if he is out there he obviously doesn't give a shit about me finding him. I'll continue to live my life just as it is, yet I can't say what I'd do if proven wrong because the idea is so crazy. But if you are going to have an opinion you should be strong in it and the best way to strengthen something to by testing it.

The Question: "What would you do if it could be proven to you beyond any doubt that there is a "God"?"
This isn't asking you to question what you believe, but only to try and answer how you would react if this could somehow be proven to you. Any opinions other than telling me what you think I believe are welcomed.

DatheR

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#39681 - 05/13/04 04:40 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Josephine007 Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Zero Point Field
The Question: "What would you do if it could be proven to you beyond any doubt that there is a "God"?"

It has been proven to me beyond any reasonable doubt. It is knowledge that I possess, not a belief I trust in.

...but only to try and answer how you would react if this could somehow be proven to you.

My reaction was one of great happiness and amusement. You may see my editorial in the latest issue of SMAG (avaliable at the CoS Emporium ). It is entitled, "Give it to me Straight Doctor, I can Take it." although the original title was, "How I Found God."
_________________________
Josephine Seven
Cherchez La Femme
"Test Everything. Believe nothing."

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#39682 - 05/13/04 04:49 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Josephine007]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I thank you for your responce, but you being "god" to yourself and of yourself isn't quite what I was asking about. In this case the "god" in question is a spiritual and non-physical being which has not only the ability to think but also is somehow able to live up to all of the legends and myths of monotheistic religeons. The day I don't see god then I look into the mirror is the day I end it all.

DatheR

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#39683 - 05/13/04 04:53 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Jack_Bauer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1524
Loc: Germany
Quote:

What would you do if it could be proven to you beyond any doubt that there is a "God"?



Well, I wouldn't "do" anything special.

It wouldn't change my life, because it wouldn't change what I am.

This question is irrelevant.
_________________________
~ Suum cuique. ~

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#39684 - 05/13/04 05:07 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Jack_Bauer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I think that you've answered it exactly as you should, but did you actually think about it and try to imagine that to be true long enough to see if you'd actually just blow it off? Or did you just feel that it's something so outlandish that to imagine it is impossible? Imagination is a key tool to a Satanist, yet this idea seems to be impossible to imagine. More or less it's just something I've had in my head lately and I'm curious if other's could honestly say they could imagine it to be true and if they would change who they are because of it.

DatheR

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#39685 - 05/13/04 05:15 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Nyarlathotep Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Nashville, TN
If it were proven beyond a doubt that the Xtian God exists, then it still wouldn't be a matter of faith, would it? It would become fact.

Their god requires faith to exist. If their god became proven, then it would cease to exist.

Read The Hitchhiker's Guide To The Galaxy by Douglas Adams to see this in action.
_________________________
"I think, therefore I am dangerous."

"So now you'll see that evil will always triumph...because good is dumb."
-Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

HAIL SATAN!!

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#39686 - 05/13/04 05:16 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Jack_Bauer Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1524
Loc: Germany
It doesn't matter how long you think about it.

You are what you are. Nothing will change that.

Do you know who you are?
_________________________
~ Suum cuique. ~

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#39687 - 05/13/04 05:20 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Jack_Bauer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


If I didn't know who I was then this question would be answered without a problem. Anyone who knows who they are and have a firm sense of identity will be who they are no matter what happens. I guess in a sense this is the answer, yet I'd still like to see if anyone else has anything to add. This is a question without an answer, so trying to find one proves to either be annoying or entertaining.

DatheR

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#39688 - 05/13/04 05:30 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Powaqqatsi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 396
Loc: Hungary
If I would learn that there is a supernatural being, who controls everything and who couldn't be affected against his own will (so this God is omnipotent), then it is reasonable to assume that this God is in the business for quite a some time, he was in his position long before I was born. So if he wouldn't want me to live like I live now, he could tell/command me to change my life. It would be easy if the God is omnipotent, although I don't think that I would obey to a mere burning bush, so he would have to conjure up some more interesting agent or avatar for me. (To be fair I have to confess that I would sooner think that I am in some simulation, like the Matrix, than to accept as a fact that there's Someone out there.)

My conclusion is that this God is either uninterested in me, or that he accepts me as I am. So there's no need to worry or to change anything.

P.s.: I would be REALLY interested to see how he would resolve the problem of creating a rock as big that even he couldn't lift it...

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#39689 - 05/13/04 06:52 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Nyarlathotep]
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
Douglas Adams is awesome! I love his books.
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I am a Vampire.

The Temple | The Elite

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#39690 - 05/13/04 06:58 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Neko Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 05/05/04
Posts: 798
If God really did exist and it was proven to me beyond doubt, then I would stab that asshole in the face with a sharp and pointy stick. Or at least try to.
_________________________
I am a Vampire.

The Temple | The Elite

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#39691 - 05/13/04 08:19 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Steve_79 Offline


Registered: 05/01/04
Posts: 20
Loc: WI
The only way i can answer this is by saying that if it was proven, then we must be able to converse with him. So now we could ask all of the questions about why we are here, where we go when we die, and any other questions that were previously answered by "faith." In my opinion, however, that would take the fun out of living. If we all KNEW we were either going to Heaven or Hell when we die, some would either kill themselves trying to get there, or live in fear of ever dying. As for me, I understand where you are coming from, but when people ask me what I think is going to happen when I die, I have to say, "Well, I'll find out when I get to that point." Because there is no point in changing your life if you are having a wonderful time!!

Steve_79

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#39692 - 05/13/04 09:11 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Nyarlathotep]
mattevans Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Japan
If you were told there was somebody in a room which you couldn't see into because the door was closed then whether you believe it or not is a matter of faith. You then open the door and see that there is someone in the room. Do they stop existing?

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#39693 - 05/13/04 09:19 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
mattevans Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Japan
First I'd have to get myself checked for insanity and make sure that nobody had spiked my drink.
If it did turn out only that god existed then no problem I wouldn't change a thing. If it turned out that heaven and hell really existed then I don't know. Do you think that god would take a bribe?

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#39694 - 05/13/04 09:27 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Just God?
Why not fairies?
or goblins?
or chupacabras?
Quote:

I one night asked myself what I would do if someone proved to me that there is a god out there. This is something that I almost can't fathom. I don't know if it's because I'm so sure that it's untrue, or if there's another reason.



What's this 'other' reason?
I could take a shot in the dark,but I'd probably hit you right between the eyes.
_________________________
"If you wanna hurt me, you're gonna have to earn it motherfucker."
-Mickey Rourke

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#39695 - 05/13/04 09:53 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Define 'God'
The fact that you capitalize the word leads me to believe you mean it in the modern judeo-christian mythological sense. If that warrants serious thought to you, you may be on the wrong boards.


But in the name of humor, I will say if the mythological god of the torah were to somehow be proven to exist and demanded subserviance and worship, i would probably give him the finger and continue life as usual.
I think norse legend would be much more fun, though.
See you on the battle feilds of valhalla!
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#39696 - 05/13/04 10:06 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Dan_Dread]
mattevans Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Japan
"If that warrants serious thought to you, you may be on the wrong boards."
Really? Here I was thinking that Satanism was about giving serious thought to anything you have an opinion on. Giving the matter serious thought is how I came to the conclusion that there is no external deity.
Maybe I shouldn't have thought about it. Maybe I should just blindly believe everything that anyone tells me.
Or maybe I should carry on thinking, studying, learning and enjoying life as I see fit.

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#39697 - 05/13/04 12:06 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Perndog Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/06/03
Posts: 558
Loc: USA
Assuming you mean a white light god...

I would hope there's also a Satan waiting in Hell who has been hosting the most magnificent party in existence for centuries and will welcome me when I arrive.

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#39698 - 05/13/04 01:35 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Discipline Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/25/03
Posts: 6796
Loc: Forever West
A stupid question which is trying to bait us.

What if? How so? If it? blah, blah, blah.

Next contestant, please.
_________________________
"I've learned . . . that life is like a roll of toilet paper. The closer it gets to the end, the faster it goes." ~Andy Rooney

"At last I shall have time to devote myself seriously and freely to the destruction of all my former opinions." ~Descartes

“The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool.” ~Richard Feynman

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#39699 - 05/13/04 02:38 PM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Dan_Dread]
Anonymous
Unregistered


"God" is capitalized simply because it's a proper noun when used as a name not a title.

DatheR

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#39700 - 05/13/04 03:14 PM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: mattevans]
Nyarlathotep Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/10/03
Posts: 959
Loc: Nashville, TN
But does that someone require faith to exist?
_________________________
"I think, therefore I am dangerous."

"So now you'll see that evil will always triumph...because good is dumb."
-Dark Helmet, Spaceballs

HAIL SATAN!!

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#39701 - 05/13/04 04:07 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Autumn Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 10
Loc: United States
Throughout the ages, man has always felt the need to believe in something bigger and better than he is. Something/someone to solve all the unsolvable problems or straighten out all the messes man has made, or cure all the uncurable diseases. People are impatient and science takes too long.


Sometimes people pray or perform a traditional act within the society in which they live just because it makes them feel better.
If it doesn't work, they can always say god wasn't listening to them today (cynically said).

So, to your question, I don't think it's possible to prove there is a god. For those who believe in god, no explanation is necessary; for those who do not believe in god, no explanation is possible.


Edited by Autumn (05/13/04 04:16 PM)

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#39702 - 05/13/04 04:21 PM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Nyarlathotep]
mattevans Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Japan
No. They exist with or without faith. Just as god would if god was real. God only needs faith to exist because it is nothing more than a concept. If god existed then god would exist with or without faith.

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#39703 - 05/13/04 04:28 PM An Answer
Citizen_Parker Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/15/03
Posts: 217
I read your post, and sighed. I knew immediately what kind of replies you would receive.

So, I'll be original, and actually answer your question, regardless of what I think are your reasons for asking.

If it could be proven to me that a spiritual god existed, what would I do? That would depend on the circumstances in which its existance was proven to me.

If I were forced to conclude its existence as a matter of philosophy or reason, but this god did not change its policy of exhibiting no physical prowess nor evidence of its influence, then its existance would be of no consequence to my life. I would ignore it unless it became reasonable to do otherwise, and continue living as always.

However, if it proved itself by taking physical shape, walking down the street shooting balls of fire out of its eyes at "sinners," I would take a more active interest in its goals and thoughts.

In either case, I would probably seek the "true" explanations on such things as an afterlife and the god's actual desires, influence, etc., either out of philosophical curiosity or practical knowledge to maintain personal well-being.

Theological debate holds no interest now because it's meaningless, circular, and never gets anywhere. I can't even enjoy it for the simple pleasure of working through an argument or string of reasoning. That would change should it become possible to reach some sort of conclusion, or if the argument held any practical use.

If this god were to make itself undeniably known to all, and the whole heaven/hell/god/devil thing was proven to be completely true (which, for various reasons, is impossible, but I understand you are asking if ), then I would do my best to uncover for myself what the real situation is, what each party really believes, likes, dislikes, what histories/myths/conflicts truly occurred and for what reasons, and then follow it all up with some sort of position.

In such a case, I'd probably end up giving this god the finger and living apart from the whole mess if possible, or possibly taking up an active opposition if unable to separate myself from the hoopla.

Overall, I would do what I felt was in my best interest, "divine right" be damned.

But, of course, none of this is anything but annoying fantasy.
_________________________
Hail Satan!

Parker

Test Everything. Believe Nothing.

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#39704 - 05/13/04 05:33 PM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: mattevans]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
I supose you have seriously pondered the existance of the easter bunny as well?
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#39705 - 05/13/04 05:35 PM Re: An Answer [Re: Citizen_Parker]
Anonymous
Unregistered


Regardless you've answered in a way that properly deals with what I asked. It is just fantasy, but the only way to ever truely know something is to know it, forget it, then relearn it. This may be a bit of an Eastern idea but it still remains true based on my experiences. It's just a question of what would you do if everything you know is wrong, I often have a hard time believing that people wouldn't change their actions in some way if that where to happen. To those of us who have tried at some point to find something beyond this realm and failed I don't think that finding it now would make a difference; we tried and obviously we didn't matter to this diety then so why should we change now just because he's finally ready to be around. It's like having the father that abandoned you as a child show up at your front door when you're in your fourties. Even knowing that he is there it wouldn't change anything due to the fact that he wasn't around in the past and therefore not worth your time or consideration now.

Like I said at the start, this is more or less just to see what people will say to this question. I'm not trying to bait anyone, nor can anyone here say anything to change my personal feelings.

DatheR

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#39706 - 05/13/04 05:40 PM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Autumn]
Anonymous
Unregistered


That's not what was asked, I don't need to hear what I already know. I know that there is no way to prove that something that doesn't exist actually does. Any Xtian will tell you that you need "faith" to believe in God, faith is just an easy way to give an answer that can't be proven wrong. Nothing is worse than having Mormons show up at your door, and after bothering to debate with them (I just happen to enjoy debate) and as soon as they start to see they don't have the answers to what you ask they use the word "faith." Once that card is played there's nothing left to do but shut the door.

DatheR

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#39707 - 05/13/04 06:26 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Autumn Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 04/26/04
Posts: 10
Loc: United States
You replied, "Any Xtian will tell you that you need "faith" to believe in God".

Then surely you understood my answer to your question, and that indeed I did answer the question you originally asked.

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#39708 - 05/13/04 08:16 PM God is real?
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
So you are asking me that if it could be proven that the Judeo-Islamic-Christian deity, YHVH-Allah-Jehovah, the manic-depressive, homocidal maniac of legend and lore, were real what would I do?

Keep a low profile!

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#39709 - 05/13/04 08:20 PM A shocking confession. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
I have seen the Easter Bunny.

And Santa Claus.

In shopping malls.

But never at the same time.

Could they be one and the same?

Like Clark Kent and Superman?

Deep thoughts.


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#39710 - 05/13/04 08:22 PM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Mr_Atrox]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
You forgot the Easter Bunny/Santa Claus question!

Please see my "confession" above.

These issues must be resolved!


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#39711 - 05/13/04 08:25 PM What I would ask God. [Re: Steve_79]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Okay, God. Is the Easter Bunny and Santa Claus the same guy? Like Clark Kent and Superman? You never see them at the same time at the shopping malls.

Well????

Inquiring minds want to know!


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#39712 - 05/13/04 08:26 PM Pointy stick [Re: Neko]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Have you been talking to Mel Gibson?

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#39713 - 05/13/04 08:27 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
$lesk Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 10/29/02
Posts: 2318
Loc: Norway
I would have used the old whoopie cushion on him.
_________________________
I am just a very thin layer of charming with some funny sprinkles wrapped around a huge creamy center of raging arrogant a-hole.
Sermo III & cult 45
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#39714 - 05/13/04 08:30 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Anonymous
Unregistered


Sincerest apologies for this - I haven't read all of the replies, as I don't have the time. However, I wanted to toss this comment in as a little afterthought.

I think God DOES exist. I would assert that due to all the decisions (legal and otherwise) that have been made in "his" dubious name, he is intertwined in our daily lives to an alarming extent. This of course can be marginilized thankfully - "Do not complain about that which you need not subject yourself to"...

But that's not the point. The bottom line is, that if God existed as the Christians say he does, it wouldn't make one iota of difference - I'd still disagree with him philosophically, and would therefore ignore him, as I ignore the other buffoons with holier than thou attitudes, and evangelical diatribes.

A bit like now really.

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#39715 - 05/14/04 12:08 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
SilverHammer Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 07/01/02
Posts: 1758
Loc: Connecticut
In the event that all the Christian mythos were proven to be irrefutably true, I would want to know if Heaven was truly worth all of the ass-kissing required to enter, or if I'd have more fun down below.
In the case of the former, I would do anything I could to ensure my entrance, because any requirement, no matter how unpleasant, would still be a means to a desirable end.
_________________________
Some boys grow up into men who can look at themselves in the mirror in the morning, and others just go along with the crowd, forgetting after a while that they ever had a choice. ---Roger Ebert

www.myspace.com/savagegod

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#39716 - 05/14/04 02:29 AM Re: God is real? [Re: Nemo]
Citizen Jonesy Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/22/02
Posts: 995
Loc: Palm Springs, California, USA
Quote:

So you are asking me that if it could be proven that the Judeo-Islamic-Christian deity, YHVH-Allah-Jehovah, the manic-depressive, homocidal maniac of legend and lore, were real what would I do?

Keep a low profile!




I have a better idea in that situation, Magister.

RUN!!! I would!
_________________________
Hail Satan!
Jonesy
I° Member, Church Of Satan
Webmaster
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#39717 - 05/14/04 02:36 AM Nothing personal.
Moria Offline


Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 50
Many of your posts are the size of novellas. Ordinarily, being this verbose wouldn't irritate me, and since you seem to have geniunely interesting things to discuss (usually) I'm willing to overlook this particular shortcoming. Try to write less like you're writing in your diary and get to the point a little faster, all that text is quite an eye strain.

Remember, no offense, nothing personal, etc...
_________________________
"Satanism has become a gravitational force. We know that it doesn't matter what you were before. Once you discover your Satanic persona, that's it. You knew it was lurking inside you. You just couldn't quite conceptualize it." - Anton Szandor LaVey

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#39718 - 05/14/04 03:46 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Josephine007 Offline
CoS Priestess

Registered: 01/31/04
Posts: 620
Loc: Zero Point Field
I thank you for your responce, but you being "god" to yourself and of yourself isn't quite what I was asking about.

And, that wasn't quite what I was talking about. If that is what I meant, that is what I would have said.
_________________________
Josephine Seven
Cherchez La Femme
"Test Everything. Believe nothing."

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#39719 - 05/14/04 05:27 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Spitt Offline


Registered: 06/01/03
Posts: 171
Loc: Tokyo, Japan
I'd have some pointed questions for him, as would a lot of other people, I'd imagine. First and foremost: why did you give us all these instincts and then set up the rules in direct contradiction to them? If he's got a sound, logical answer to that (preferably in 25 single-syllable words or less) I'd be willing to listen.The debate could go from there until he either convinces me, or he doesn't. And if he can't give me a sound, logical explanation (any length & multi-syllabic) . . . well, need I say?

Oh, yes: if--whatever the outcome--I'd have to do everything the fundamentalists say in order to get into heaven, I'd continue doing my own satanic thing, then when the time came to die I'd accept the last rites, which would clear my slate & stamp my ticket into heaven, although I'm not really sure I'd want to go. Imagine spending eternity over cocktails with Jim & Tammy Baker. Hopefully, despite the clean slate and stamped ticket, I'd still have the option of taking the express elevator down.

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#39720 - 05/14/04 08:14 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Nemo]
Mr_Atrox Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 09/16/03
Posts: 1814
Loc: Lycopolis
Hmmm...yeah...why don't you ever see 'em together?
After the good Magister's advisement, the game is now afoot!
I'll be starting my investigation here . And when I receive each sample, they will be thouroughly analyzed for ANY similarities. It has been noted that this "Santa" and this "Easter Bunny" cross their 'Ts' in a very, very similar style. While this is far from conclusive, it is,I believe, a step in the right direction.
I have taken into account the purported cunning of my quarry, and am completely prepared, should the need arise, to compare type-written letters-for inks, typos, and fibers.
_________________________
"If you wanna hurt me, you're gonna have to earn it motherfucker."
-Mickey Rourke

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#39721 - 05/14/04 08:16 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Dan_Dread]
mattevans Offline


Registered: 01/14/04
Posts: 147
Loc: Japan
Not the easter bunny but definitely santa back when I was four or five. There is a slight difference between stories told to children for a bit of fun and stories told to adults to control them. Having been surrounded by catholics all my life, christian family, catholic school, the existence of god actually is something I had think about. If I didn't think about it I'd probably be on my knees in front of a catholic priest right now!

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#39722 - 05/14/04 08:31 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Anonymous
Unregistered


But it's not a name - I read it in "Watchtower". As a matter of reference, I'm led to believe his name is actually YHVH, or Jehovah.

I think I'll stick with Fred.

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#39723 - 05/14/04 10:06 AM Re: A shocking confession. [Re: Nemo]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
On the subject...
I have spent many hours pondering over how Santa get's from one mall to the next with such blinding speed. Truely amazing!
I wonder what his secret is.........
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#39724 - 05/14/04 10:19 AM Re: A shocking confession. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11552
Loc: New England, USA
>I have spent many hours pondering over how Santa
>get's [sic] from one mall to the next with such
>blinding speed. Truely [sic] amazing!

Well, if he can visit millions of chimneys in one night, then I'm sure mall-hopping is no large task.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#39725 - 05/14/04 10:24 AM Re: A shocking confession. [Re: Bill_M]
Dan_Dread Offline


Registered: 10/08/03
Posts: 523
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Good point.
You are very wise.
Maybe you can fill me in on the mysteries of the caramilk bar sometime?
_________________________
"One thing I have learned in a long life: that all our science, measured against reality, is primitive and childlike and yet it is the most precious thing we have." - Albert Einstein --------------------

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#39726 - 05/14/04 10:51 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11552
Loc: New England, USA
>>The Question: "What would you do if it could be proven to
>>you beyond any doubt that there is a "God"?"

I've had this question posed to me several times, and in short, my answer is that I wouldn't do anything.

One of the problems I've always had with this question is that "God" is such a vague term. If he's simply defined as the creator of the universe, then it begs the question of whether or not he plays any role (or even cares) about human affairs. So it becomes a question of theism vs. deism.

If we DO assume that this deity interacts or cares about human affairs, then it futher begs the question of whether or not he punishes people based on certain actions. If we futher assume THAT too, then we just come to another question of how one avoids punishment. Be a Muslim? Jew? Xtian?

And even then, you have different sects of the same religion claiming to have the "right" instructions. This is the classic "avoiding the wrong hell" problem.

Somebody recently asked me "If you died and saw God, what would he say to you?" My answer was "Well done, Bill. You did it all without ever bugging me for help!"
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#39727 - 05/14/04 11:00 AM Re: A shocking confession. [Re: Dan_Dread]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11552
Loc: New England, USA
>>Maybe you can fill me in on the mysteries of the caramilk
>>bar sometime?

I've heard theories, but they're really nothing but guesses from snooty skeptics. Damn those heathens! One day the great Chic of Cadsbury will unleash their wrath on them.
_________________________
Reverend Bill M.

http://www.devilsmischief.com: Carnal Comedy Clips, Netherworld Novelty Numbers,
New hour every week. Download the mp3 now!

http://www.aplaceformystuff.org: Tales of Combat Clutter and other Adventures

(Wenn du Google's Übersetzer verwendest, um diese Worte zu lesen, dann bist du ein Arschloch.)

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#39728 - 05/14/04 03:08 PM I want to believe... [Re: Nemo]
pippin Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 06/28/01
Posts: 513
Loc: Sweden
Quote:

I have seen the Easter Bunny.
And Santa Claus.
In shopping malls.
But never at the same time.

Could they be one and the same?




I believe not...


Attachments
217344-EB&Tx.jpg (12 downloads)

_________________________
Enjoy the silence...

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#39729 - 05/14/04 04:33 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Basil_theOgre Offline


Registered: 01/30/04
Posts: 11
Loc: Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I read your post and knew that it'd bring a new batch of trash-talkers out of the woodwork. I actually haven't had to "ignore" anyone new in quite a while. So, right off the bat I'd like to thank you for helping me to pare down the amount of crap I have to filter through when reading the LttD. Kudos.

As to your question, let me first say that I've considered the possibility quite thoroughly, and don't believe that it CAN be proved to me the "HE" exists. I won't get into the details (I may have to write a book about it one day. Would I call it "Definitive Proof that God CAN'T Exist!" ? Watch for it at B&N), but I can't make the logic equation balance out. Be that as it may, if hypothetically I could be convinced that He exists, there would be only one thing to do. And my answer is SURE to bring out any of the trash-talking no-minds I've yet to add to my "ignore" list.

The only thing to do would be Suicide. Yup, you heard me. The ultimate Satanic Sin. And, coincidentally, the ultimate Xtian Sin too. You see, discovering that God as we've been taught to understand Him exists, would be a betrayal of everything I've come to understand and believe about myself and the universe. His existense, partly because I currently believe that to be impossible, contradicts the meaning of my life. AND it contradicts the meanings of the lives of everyone around me, everyone that has ever lived, and anyone who'll ever live. His existense would also be incompatible with my understanding of Satanism, so despite my desperate, ecstatic, consuming love of life, and of MY life in particular, I would NOT want to live in a world where He exists. I most certainly wouldn't want to be "forgiven" by Him, nor "accepted" into His Heaven. So, it would seem that Suicide would be the best way to rid myself of a universe that makes no sense, and that doesn't belong to me, and to guarantee my eternal freedom from Him and all things His.

Call me weak, or non-Satanist, or whatever you like, but I think that's how I feel. Feel free to try and change my mind if you like, but be warned: Ignorant, one-line replies will only get you ignored, so if you're tempted to reply that way, don't bother wasting the bandwidth.
_________________________
I can finally see it, but Hell's still a long climb away.

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#39730 - 05/14/04 05:11 PM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Basil_theOgre]
Powaqqatsi Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 01/29/04
Posts: 396
Loc: Hungary
Do you really think that by suicide you could escape from YHWH?

Have you ever heard of "Hell"? You know, according to the Bible (the abrahamic one) this is the place where all the dead sinners go to suffer eternally. By Christian standards after death there is no "nirvana", so there's no "guaranteed eternal freedom" if you play by THEIR rules. On the contrary, they say that after a while everyone shall be resurrected, then judged, and the good guys go to Heaven, and the baddies go to a fiery lake.

By killing yourself you're not only become a resident (read: prisoner) of Hell, but you're throwing away your life.

So you would choose abstinence instead of indulgence? Of course, if you're a masochist who enjoys bathing in flames, then by all means pick up a knife or a gun, or a rope and express yourself! ...If the mean old scapeGod really exists...

There are far worse entities among us than God. Yes, I refer to his followers, who are real and they're even bigger assholes than their God.

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#39731 - 05/14/04 08:33 PM Re: A Ponderable Question
Ringu Offline


Registered: 02/01/04
Posts: 144
Loc: NRW, Germany, Earth
How can "God" exist if i do, already?
In fact i exist so "God" cannot be for real
_________________________
every causation has its own special effect

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#39732 - 05/15/04 07:19 AM Re: A Ponderable Question [Re: Ringu]
Anonymous
Unregistered


That just put a smile on my face, I had to thank you for making my day.

DatheR

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#39733 - 05/15/04 07:58 AM Thank you for being honest and thoughtful [Re: SilverHammer]
Anonymous
Unregistered


I just want to talk you for your post's being honest with yourself and an answer. I don't think that every person on this board would change themselves if it were true, but I do know it's alot more than just you. It's the fact that such an idea is so crazy and stupid that it's next to impossible to honestly picture it. But if "God" is real, then that means all of these "crazies" shouting John 3:16 at football games are on to something. That means all of the other stuff might be real too. And though we all have a list of things we'd want to know from God if they are right about the other things then all the reasons he'll give you won't make any sense. The average priest's responce to why God made us in the first place, "because he loved us." That is the dogma in that Catholic faith, I don't want to waste my time on that if all the other answers are that half-assed.

DatheR
Except maybe if he can make that rock.

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#39734 - 05/15/04 11:33 PM Uh huh.
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12551
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
"If wishes were horses Beggars would ride.
If turnips were watches I'd wear one by my side."

If God were real, the Bible would be true.
If Jesus came back, we'd just tell him "Shoo!"

If there were no IRS, US citizens wouldn't have to pay taxes.

If it didn't get dark at night you wouldn't need light to see.

If you didn't get hungry you wouldn't have to eat.

Good grief.

This thread is pointless.

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#39735 - 05/16/04 12:15 AM Re: A Ponderable Question
Skyla Offline

CoS Member

Registered: 02/13/04
Posts: 495
I'm born in a catholic family and therefore I know alot about the jealous God of the Christians which says: "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." What sense would make such a commandment, if the God of the Christians is the only one possible to believe in? I think, if there really exists something like the christian God it makes no difference for me. I'm my own God and do my will, if he has a problem with that, he has to destroy me. May the best win. I have no problem with competitors.
_________________________
One life. Live it.

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#39736 - 05/16/04 03:54 AM I think I speak for most....
Moria Offline


Registered: 02/27/04
Posts: 50
Your question is pointless. The existence of any god or gods cannot be proven. Ultimately, it is up to you to decide what you believe in. Will you believe in what you can take in with your five senses, or will you believe in what is make-believe.

Ideally, you should be comfortable leaving a big question mark over the whole range of questions that involve what happens when we die, does god(s) exist, etc.
_________________________
"Satanism has become a gravitational force. We know that it doesn't matter what you were before. Once you discover your Satanic persona, that's it. You knew it was lurking inside you. You just couldn't quite conceptualize it." - Anton Szandor LaVey

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