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#406818 - 12/26/09 06:20 PM Homosexuality and The Real Thing
SINClair Offline


Registered: 10/06/08
Posts: 320
Loc: Europe
I am aware that the topic of homosexuality has been discussed to death, BUT, still there's something about it that intrigues me. I'd like to ask anyone who feels inclined to do so, to respond with personal opinion, thought, feeling, etc.


I'm bisexual myself. I have a boyfriend and all my past relationships have been with men... I have been with other women before however, and do sometimes feel attracted to other women... Feminine women that is, girly girls. I am also myself feminine, I am also myself quite girly.


When I am looking for a masculine element, for a masculine trait, I go straight to the sourse, a man.


When I am looking for a feminine element, for a feminine trait, I go straight to the sourse, a woman.


This is just how I biologically operate, I have not sat down and made that choice, well, I have done so as well, but, it was primarely instinct.


What intrigues me are those who go for people of the same gender but of opposite gender traits. Such as for instance the homosexual guy who goes for the feminine queer or the homosexal girl who goes for the macho dyke... If the former is looking for the feminine side in someone, why not go for a real girl? If the latter's looking for the masculine side in someone, why not go for a real guy?


I find this quite intriguing... I for one even though being bisexual, would not touch a macho dyke with a ten foot poll. Nothing against them as people, mind you, just most decidedly not my cup of tea, as far as sexual preference's concerned.


Thoughts?
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#406820 - 12/26/09 06:39 PM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: SINClair]
Bill_M Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 07/28/01
Posts: 11547
Loc: New England, USA
Originally Posted By: SINClair
What intrigues me are those who go for people of the same gender but of opposite gender traits. Such as for instance the homosexual guy who goes for the feminine queer or the homosexal girl who goes for the macho dyke... If the former is looking for the feminine side in someone, why not go for a real girl? If the latter's looking for the masculine side in someone, why not go for a real guy?

Because homosexual males don't go for partners with vaginas, and homosexual females don't go for partners with penises.
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#406821 - 12/26/09 06:42 PM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: SINClair]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
The answer is obvious. If a man is interested in men, then he wants a man. Whether or not his partner is feminine or not is irrelevant because he's still a man.

That's like asking why don't straight men just fuck really feminine men because it's kinda like a woman..no..it's not like a woman, it's a man.

If a woman is a lesbian, she wants a woman. Whether or not the woman they choose is butch or not isn't the point. No matter how butch she may be, she's not a man.

When you want a man, will you settle for a woman who looks and acts like a man? No. Why? Because she's a woman and not a man.

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#406832 - 12/26/09 10:36 PM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
SpeshulK Offline


Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 25
Loc: UT
Heh, an interesting question, since I'm pretty much a perfect case study.

When I'm looking for a guy, although I wouldn't say I'm looking for a drag queen or otherwise "feminine" man, I'm certainly not looking for a "bear", but someone that is slightly more sensitive and, well for lack of a better word "feminine" than your average man. But when I'm looking for women, I prefer those that are slightly masculine, who like to indulge in video games, heavy metal, and other hobbies that are generally considered "masculine", but again I'm not looking for a "straight-dyke", just someone a little more masculine than the average girl.

This is all speculation, but I think that, for myself at least, as a relatively masculine guy I want a mate that is less masculine than myself in order to more comfortably take on a dominant role in a relationship, which is why when I want a man I want one that is a little bit feminine. However as an objectivist as well as simply due to my general interests I like a girl that is strong, self-reliant, and generally a tiny bit more "manly" than the average barbie doll girl one might meet at a club.

For the gay community as a whole, I'd have to say it has to do with the general acceptance of dominant/submissive relationship roles, and the fact that while a gay man might want to have sex with a guy, he may still consider himself the "man" of the relationship and therefore would be uncomfortable around another "manly man" who may emasculate him, and the opposite being true with lesbians who are attracted to "butch" women.

Just my two cents, since I tend to psychoanalyze relationships like this.

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#406835 - 12/26/09 11:11 PM Re: Homosexuality Is The Real Thing [Re: SpeshulK]
Ms. Harlot Offline


Registered: 12/03/09
Posts: 49
Loc: Austin, TX
I've answered this question many times in my life. It's usually asked in an insulting and condescending tone, so I appreciate your attempt to be respectful. My usual response would be, "Why the hell does it matter to you?"

Reverend Bill's answer is the long and short of it, but let me answer a little more thoroughly, at least from my view.

I'm very femme, and my partner would be considered butch. I've always been attracted to gender fluidity in a woman; it's very sexy to me. I don't like femme women because they're too high maintenance. I gladly say that I'm high maintenance, and my girlfriend loves to spoil me every chance she gets. I wouldn't get that from another femme.

A good way to understand the whole "butch/femme" trend in homosexuality is to stop thinking "butch/femme". It's purely yin and yang. There's a top and a bottom, a protector and a protected one, a dominant and a submissive. Even if a relationship consists of two femme women, the roles within the relationship still compliment each other. They can even switch.

My partner and I are both switches, both in our relationship and in the bedroom. She's ten years my senior, so she tends to take on the protector role a lot. She gets shy around my crowd, so I protect her against them if need be. We're quite kink oriented, so dominant/submissive roles are very defined in certain parts of our relationship.

Gender expression isn't the primary part of a homosexual relationship. It's just how a person presents him or herself. I've been with men before, and I've never experienced nearly the same amount of attraction I have with women, mentally or physically. Butch or femme, when the clothes come off, it really doesn't matter.

PS: WTF's up with your post's title?


Edited by Ms. Harlot (12/26/09 11:21 PM)
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#406839 - 12/27/09 01:23 AM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: SINClair]
NapalmNick Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 08/23/08
Posts: 2151
With this kind of thing, you're going to get a different answer from everyone you ask. That's assuming you're asking individuals, not herd members. But seeing as how you're asking it on a message board for Satanists, I'm going to assume it is your goal to cultivate all these varying responses.

Whether anyone likes it or not, the West is still pretty much a patriarchal heterosexual society. This does not mean that EVERYONE lives in a male-dominant, straight environment; such environments simply are the overwhelming norm. Is it changing? Sure. But the residue of such cultural trends are going to influence and inform for a very long time to come. If it were not for such blatantly homophobic attitudes in the average Christian household (and in the promise bags of many politicians) the homosexual "movements" would probably not be so overt. Probably.

Because of the stark contrast between the two groups, not to mention the vast majority of sexual activity still being placed in the "fringe" category in the mind of the average American, people tend to have very solid ideas about sexuality, regardless of which "side" they support.

The overly grossed out attitudes that straight males have exhibited when confronted with gayness is also present in gays of both sexes. "Heterophobia" most definitely exists. As does "biphobia", and many other hang-ups about the sexualities of others. Most likely because they fear it reveals something about themselves. I've heard many lesbians say something like "if she leaves me for a man I'm never dating a bi chick again."
So her leaving you for another woman isn't as bad?

If a gay guy likes men who are very feminine it's most likely just because he likes faggy guys. But it is also entirely possible that he does like women, and because of fear of being called "confused" or "faking", or any number of retarded things, he denies it and psychologically buries it. I would not be surprised at all if this is the case for many heterosexual and homosexual people.

Bottom line: people like sex. Most will get it with whomever (and sometimes whatever) they can. But Satanists are not like most. If you've got a sexual hang-up there's nothing stopping you from exploring it. If you end up being a run-of-the-mill manly straight guy that's fine. It's just who you are. But there is an important distinction to be made between healthy and unhealthy sexual attitudes.

Know yourself and don't worry about others. It's worked pretty well for me.
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#406855 - 12/27/09 08:27 AM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: SpeshulK]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
I'm a man who's attracted to men. I can't stand feminine guys and I couldn't stand to be involved with any man I couldn't respect as such. If I wanted something soft and feminine I'd be with a woman instead of a generic brand that's "almost as good". I HATE that heterosexuality mimicry that gays do, feeding that age old idiotic question "Who's the man and who's the woman in the relationship?". Other masculine men don't bother me, I have no fear of being emasculated because there isn't such a thing as far as I'm concerned. He's not "the" man I'm not "the" man, we're both men and in my opinion that's the way it should be. Never been a fan of weakness, ESPECIALLY from a man so no one plays a submissive role.

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#406858 - 12/27/09 08:41 AM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Sorry, but that is offensive. 'that gays do'? I can't talk for most homosexuals as they are just as worthless as hetrosexuals, but a persons needs are what plays the role. If a person is attracted to the same sex but needs that person to play an opposite gender role then that's fine. Who are you to judge how people co-exist together? You are telling me that your relationships are clear cut? You don't need a certain set of qualities in person for you to be happy?
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#406860 - 12/27/09 08:47 AM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: Skjalandir]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
People can do whatever they like, however I'm speaking for myself. Since we're discussing gays and bisexual people then use it would be "the gays". Mind you whenever generalizing you have to take into consideration that not EVERY gay person is this way, but surely a good majority.


And for the most part my relationships are pretty simple. As a basis I prefer masculine men, however masculinity has a broad range so it's measured on a person to person basis. As long as that basic requirement is met I'm fine.

I personally don't see the need for a man playing a female role..that makes no sense to me. If I wanted a woman I'd get one, not a knockoff. Stereotypical gay men are pretty much the gay version of the herd, complete with all the restrictions and confinements that come with it, and it's not something I care for much at all.

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#406862 - 12/27/09 10:18 AM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: SINClair]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1812
Loc: Denmark
I cannot speak as a homosexual, but after reading your topic it occurred to me that this may not be limited to this group.

For instance some of the things that I appreciate in women would by some (and by tradition) be considered masculine - independence, assertiveness, self-reliance and so on. I have on a few occasions gotten quite curious glances when pointing out that I find women with automated weapons sexy (asian women with AK 47's as the case would be) smile

And to the best of my knowledge I'm not a closet gay or in denial. If I look for reasons I'm probably more inclined to think of it as looking for something other than my mother smile

So my wholly unqualified guess would be for instance that gay men who search for feminine traits in a partner wants something in a man that doesn't remind him of the typical male ideals, perhaps because that's the way he has internalised his feelings about his own sexuality, perhaps the one searching for a manly gay man needs that to complete things he thinks are missing in himself, or perhaps he is just feeling confident with his role and seeks an equal.
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#406883 - 12/27/09 07:32 PM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: SINClair]
Branwyn Offline


Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 92
Loc: Montana, USA
I imagine that for some people, they are not interested in a feminine woman, they are interested in a feminine man. Simple as that. For them, a feminine woman would be no more than a cheap imitation, and the feminine man would be the real thing. Likewise with masculine women and men.

Male/female is not the same thing as man/woman, which in turn is not the same thing as masculine/feminine. For instance, there is a big difference between effeminate gay men and mtf transgendered women. Both may be anatomically male and have feminine traits, but one is an effeminate man in a man's body, the other is a woman in a man's body. Both may be attractive, but they are going to be differently attractive to different people. People are more complex than simply where they fall on the masculinity-femininity scale.

I am 100% woman, 100% female, 99.5% heterosexual, but I am no where near 100% feminine.

Your tastes run toward masculine men and feminine women. For you, an effeminate man or a macho woman would be only a cheap approximation of what you really want. Just as true, for some, a masculine man or a feminine woman would be that same cheap approximation.

Say I'm craving something salty, so I decide to have some cheese and crackers. Someone else, when craving salt, might prefer a steak. Someone else might really like just a few grains of table salt. Someone else, a gatorade. I, however, am not going to put down my cheese and crackers in favor a few grains of table salt, just because it is closer to the source. There is more to the cheese and crackers that I like than just the salt. I like the overall flavors and textures. Same thing with sex.

~Branwyn
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#406893 - 12/27/09 10:59 PM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: SINClair]
Diwanna Offline


Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 128
Loc: Upland
I don't think this has been brought up yet, but the Synthesizer clock could be playing a part here. A 12 o'clock man will probably chase after a 6 o'clock woman if hetero and a 6 o'clock man if homosexual. It just seems like a balance thing to me with sexual preference not really playing a part. I just think that homosexual preferences seem to stand out more because it is different than the majority.

An example...My boss, who is on the passive/softer side side, married a dominant woman. His boss, who is a dominant woman, married a passive/very feminine woman (during the few seconds it was legal in CA).
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The Absence of God will bring you comfort. - Jenny Lewis

There is a point in which empirical evidence outweighs your faith. It is then when you must chose to open your eyes, or close them. - Diwanna

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#406962 - 12/28/09 11:06 PM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: Diwanna]
Zaranell Offline


Registered: 03/01/09
Posts: 56
Loc: Arizona, USA
I can offer no real insight into the psychological aspects of the discussion at hand, but I can present my own preferences, for whatever it's worth.

I'm a heterosexual male, and perhaps the most attractive woman in any fantasies of mine is one who is, shall we say... "romantically aggressive." I quite enjoy the idea of a dominating woman. Paradoxically, I don't consider myself submissive. It's possible that I'm more of a switch myself. I have no indication otherwise, as I have been unable to find a relationship as of yet. Virtually every girl I like is either taken or not interested in me.

But that's besides the point. The point is that while I like a woman who's more on the masculine side, I have no interest in men whatsoever. Except maybe Johnny Depp, but who isn't interested in him?
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#406976 - 12/29/09 06:00 AM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: Zaranell]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
I, for the record, have no interest in Johnny Depp

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#407000 - 12/29/09 09:52 AM Re: Homosexuality and The Real Thing [Re: Zaranell]
Diwanna Offline


Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 128
Loc: Upland
Originally Posted By: Zaranell
I have no indication otherwise, as I have been unable to find a relationship as of yet. Virtually every girl I like is either taken or not interested in me.



Maybe it's the rotting skin, the pointy fangs, and the glowing yellow eyes?
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The Absence of God will bring you comfort. - Jenny Lewis

There is a point in which empirical evidence outweighs your faith. It is then when you must chose to open your eyes, or close them. - Diwanna

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