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#407120 - 12/30/09 11:25 AM Re: The Death Rant [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Drake_Bamboozle Offline
CoS Reverend

Registered: 06/25/02
Posts: 10568
Loc: England
>> I do think things happen because they are supposed to. <<


I ask again: as decreed by whom, or by what?

Are you familiar with the concept of mastery of the earth? And more importantly, what the parameters of the concept might be?

As far as bereavement of the deceased is concerned, let me offer you some advice. Either take it or don't take it but here it is all the same: empathy for the human condition is essential in successful application of lesser magic.
_________________________
"u.v.ray is truly an outsider, yet he's also a member of a club that includes greats such as Bukowski, Fante, and Salinger"

www.uvray.moonfruit.com





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#407122 - 12/30/09 11:29 AM Re: The Death Rant [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Spelled Moon Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/25/08
Posts: 1691
Loc: Germany
Originally Posted By: Rev_Strongbone
empathy for the human condition is essential in successful application of lesser magic.


tiki

Some tough Satanists are missing this point.

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#407126 - 12/30/09 11:41 AM Re: The Death Rant [Re: Iscariot]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
A plan would mean that nature is actually paying attention. I don't think it is, but I think things just happen because they happen and it's just a step in a sequence of other occurrences.

For instance if I were to die due to my house collapsing on me. It's not as simple as "the house fell down". All the factors that went into it (termites eating the wood, weather damage, me ignoring these things or being unaware of them, the fact that one usually spends the most time at home, etc) would map out the reason I died. There was a series of events that led to the house falling in on me and even though some may see it as a freak or random occurrence, it wasn't really. The house falling in was just another part in the sequence of things that happen, I happened to be there. I don't feel I would be "taken before my time" because no one guaranteed a certain life span and no one knows for sure what was set into motion and had been going on before I met my demise. Everything is a sequence of happenings and sometimes people get involved and experience negative outcome because of it.

I don't think nature "designed" it personally for me, but things happen. There was no "plan", it was just that the many factors that played into that event caused my death..so it indeed was my time. My time was just another step in that scenario..it was just supposed to go with all the other things that went on. To say nature has an actual plan means you can be spared or doomed and I just don't see that as the case at all. Who deems the "supposed to"? I don't know..there are many things we don't have the answers to and can't figure out, it's why religion is so popular. I personally don't think anyone dishes out the "supposed to", it's just a factor of things that happen but I don't feel that such things are accidents..it's just what is.


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#407127 - 12/30/09 11:46 AM Re: The Death Rant [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
HellofallHells Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 11/01/05
Posts: 3524
The thing is, if you had taken care of your house and it didn't fall on you, you would not necessarily then have been hit by a car because it was "your time". Final Destination is just a movie. wink
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Hell of All Hells

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#407128 - 12/30/09 11:46 AM Re: The Death Rant [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Roho_the_Rooster Offline
CoS Warlock

Registered: 03/10/05
Posts: 6999
Loc: Pre-Apocalypolis
Originally Posted By: Drakkar Tyrannis
Who's to say?



The point is, in death, as in life, we shoulder much of the responsibility. True, there can always be unforeseen circumstances beyond our control; but, the choices we make do impact how long we live. There is no book of life or death.

Another thing to think about is that this is a forum populated by Satanists. Things such as luck, the fates or kismet may seem far from the realm of outside deities to outsiders; but, to us, they are the same. ANY force, personage or influence outside ourselves given allowance to affect us beyond our choice is anathema. The difference between praying and believing in luck, or that if it is supposed to be, it will be, is strictly semantic.

There is no reason to feel the need to emote over something that does not affect you, true. However, it is expected that a self-possessed person would feel the loss of anyone who brought them benefit or enjoyment. I felt grief when Jimmy Stewart died. Why? His work brings me joy. I feel nothing when someone who has no influence in my life dies. To do so would be pathological. Some celebrities come and go without my notice. Relatively obscure people may affect me more if I have had some positive interaction with them. So, if someone grieves over someone, so be it. I do not know the impact the death has on anyone other than me. As for teens, they are walking hormones.
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"Life is the only race you lose by reaching the end." - M.M.

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#407133 - 12/30/09 12:20 PM Re: The Death Rant [Re: HellofallHells]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
Ha, point taken. smile
I don't think you can cheat death, and I certainly don't think death get's pissed if you avoid it, so it creates something else to take you out. This would go back to conscious entities working for or against you.

While typing this I (think at least) saw what others were asking as to the "supposed" thing. My opinion is that, everything is a series of happenings everything from the ones we create to the ones we have no hand in. These series cross with others and go in all sorts of directions and in these many crossings, death is bound to happen as death itself is just another addition to the series. This is just a natural thing and nature doesn't write what will happen, these things just happen within nature's law.

Now having said that, saying that something is supposed to or not supposed happen is rather pompous and I do take that back. I do think death is just a factor of various happenings crossing at some point. Sometimes humans just get caught in an unfavorable crossing whether we put ourselves there or not. I obviously can't say for certain that something is supposed to, or not supposed to happen, however I still don't think it's possible for someone to die too soon. I think someone can die too soon for those who will mourn, but not just too soon in general.

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#407140 - 12/30/09 01:57 PM Re: The Death Rant [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
ArtAche86 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Cthulhu's Bowels,Kentucky
There is no supposed to.If things were "supposed to" happen,then you believe in pre-destination,which is a major concept of christianity.

People live and they die.That is the end of it.It simply is.

If you believe that people are "supposed to die" at the hands of "nature",take a stroll through Compton,CA with a swastika on,and see if nature saves you for your pre-destined death date via "choking on corn dog" in Maryland when you're 60.


Edited by ArtAche86 (12/31/09 02:42 AM)
Edit Reason: human error
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#407143 - 12/30/09 02:05 PM Re: The Death Rant [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Cryptodelic Offline


Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 134
Loc: Seattle
DT: Perhaps the trick to understanding your point - is in realizing that the descriptor "Nature" is process used as noun, or a nominalisation, or even goes as far as anthropomorphizing. So, where we might say something like: "Nature thinks X, or cares about Y..." this could be more clearly stated as "natural forces or processes are utterly indifferent towards our personal desires, but, we can decrease the probability of our eventual death by doing X and Y. However, there are unforeseeable events that will be influential towards our inevitable demise. Cheers
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#407151 - 12/30/09 03:20 PM Re: The Death Rant [Re: ArtAche86]
Drakkar Tyrannis Offline


Registered: 11/11/09
Posts: 122
Loc: Maryland,USA
Well..I do believe that stupid life forces, human or animal, usually tend to die due to their own stupidity and bad judgment. And if I was that stupid I think that would just be nature's way of thinning the population by way of me getting my brains blown out. It sure as hell would have been "my time" to go, and the only shocking thing would be that I had even lived long enough to make that final bad decision smile

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#407152 - 12/30/09 03:26 PM Re: The Death Rant [Re: Drake_Bamboozle]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12560
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:
>> No one dies too soon. Whenever you died, apparently that was when you were supposed to. <<


Supposed to, as decreed by whom or what?


Thank you.

Now I do not have to ask the same question! grin

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#407154 - 12/30/09 03:30 PM Re: "natural" [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12560
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:
It's the natural course of things. As with animals, humans, plants, all living things. To me that phrase indicates that they were supposed to live for an outlined amount of time, and fell short of that. You die when you are supposed to, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. Nature has a way of keeping checks and balances and when it's time for you to go, it's time.


Substitute God and God's will for "nature" and "natural" and your quote becomes...

Quote:
It's God's will. As with animals, humans, plants, all living things. To me that phrase indicates that they were supposed to live for an outlined amount of time, and fell short of that. You die when you are supposed to, otherwise it wouldn't have happened. God has a way of keeping checks and balances and when it's time for you to go, it's time.


Everything is "natural" including every medical technological breakthrough that ever has been or will be.

Think it through and you'll see what I mean.

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#407156 - 12/30/09 03:34 PM Re: Who's to say? [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12560
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:
Who's to say?


If not you, then you are surrendering that option to another.

You are the only one who ever can say.

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#407157 - 12/30/09 03:40 PM Re: cheating death [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12560
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:
I don't think you can cheat death...


You do it all the time.

Every time you look both ways before crossing a street.

Every time you were exposed to fatal diseases that you were vaccinated for.

Every time you didn't fall asleep at the wheel of your car.

Every time you did not flick off the policeman in traffic.

"Cheating death" is the full time occupation of anyone who values living.

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#407158 - 12/30/09 03:44 PM A suggestion. [Re: Drakkar Tyrannis]
Nemo Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 10/06/02
Posts: 12560
Loc: Point Nemo s48:52:31:748, w123...
Quote:
I still don't think it's possible for someone to die too soon.


I could not disagree more.

"Life is the great indulgence. Death the great abstinence."

Death is my enemy.

It should be the enemy of anyone who understands these things.

I challenge you to go past these cultural clichés and look at the underlying assumptions.

That is a large part of what Satanism is actually about.

If you do so, you will enrich your understanding and enjoyment of the world.

You might even live longer. wink

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#407159 - 12/30/09 03:45 PM Re: cheating death [Re: Nemo]
Ninth_Cimmerian Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 04/30/03
Posts: 1147
Loc: Washington State
You can lead a horse to water... smile
_________________________
Test Everything. Believe Nothing.

Survival Is The Highest Law!

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