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#407688 - 01/05/10 11:11 AM Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Now first off, if there is an essay on rituals suggesting which rituals work for which situations by someone with far more wisdom and life experience, then I would appreciate being directed towards it. I am aware it is up to the individual to apply which ritual they think work, but maybe I am missing something.

The scenario I have been thinking of is this:

A parent, sibling, life partner, close friend, etc. gets a drug addiction.

Automatically the first thing that happens is you report to the authorities that they have possession of illegal substances, and any other information on illegal activity that you discover. That is a given.

After this you are left with a lot of emotions and you need to exorcise these out of your system, and I have come to the conclusion that the proper action here is a destruction ritual. But how many people would do this towards their mother?

My own personal reason for a destruction ritual would be the person you care about and love’s disregard for your feelings by doing something so harmful. They have made it impossible for you not to go to the police by a lack of secrecy and they have destroyed the years you have spent together with a dumb retarded act. So I would personally be full of anger and contempt at that person. For me, I see it as being the equivalent of pulling up to a deer that has been hit by a car, brain dead and blinking at the sky, and putting it out of its misery. Drug abuse is on par with this. So I would use a destruction ritual as a final kick on their way down into depravation.

But it has also crossed my mind about a compassion ritual to ‘help’ them, but does anyone actually think it is worth saving a drug-abuser, even if it happens to someone so close to you? Or is it best to put down a dying dog?
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#407690 - 01/05/10 11:25 AM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8274
This sort of question is not one that can be answered with a firm "either or".

The decision rests upon the person conducting the ritual. All the factors known, the relationship, the events leading to this, everything, will lead to the personal conclusion of what should be the focus and intent of the ritual.

And a ritual could also be one designed to assist you in handling this. wink
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#407700 - 01/05/10 12:38 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
fire_vixen Offline


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 90
"For me, I see it as being the equivalent of pulling up to a deer that has been hit by a car, brain dead and blinking at the sky, and putting it out of its misery."

It is exactly the same thing- the deer that is in pain and has seconds to live and a drug abuser. If there were clinics to help drug abusers then it would be different, but everyone knows there is no such thing.

"But it has also crossed my mind about a compassion ritual to ‘help’ them, but does anyone actually think it is worth saving a drug-abuser, even if it happens to someone so close to you?"

Of course it's not worth saving a drug abuser. They really are the lowest of the scum, ranking below child molesters, and animal killers.
And it doesn't matter if they are close to you or not. Forget your relationship with the person, forget whatever good they have done to you, forget whatever brought them to the point of drug abuse, forget all the context. All drug abusers should die, it's as simple as that.


Edited by fire_vixen (01/05/10 12:40 PM)
Edit Reason: being sarcastic in case not obvious

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#407710 - 01/05/10 02:53 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2210
Ritual? Why not just have the person enroll in some drug program where they can get help to kick the habit? That would be the first thing I'd do. I would only report them to the police if the person stole something very valuable or caused major harm to me or him/herself.

But on the other hand, you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. If the person doesn't want to change then fuck em' and move on.
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#407711 - 01/05/10 03:05 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
Spelled Moon
Unregistered


Maybe, besides solving the emotions inside of you, you could try to help solve the emotions also inside of her and take some actions, before throwing her aside.

There are usually more possibilities, how to proceed in solving problem, and I think it's always better to start with the ones which can solve things in more peaceful and effective way, if it still has sense (here for you, and for her). If you like(d) your mother and want her "old" self back, with positive attitude (finding ways to get her out of her addiction - docs, centres...) you can help her; with negative attitude you'll kick her deeper into that dirt she's in.

Consider, if after years you spent together, you feel it's right to help her, or it's right to kick her.

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#407713 - 01/05/10 03:30 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
verszou Offline



Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1814
Loc: Denmark
Originally Posted By: Skjalandir

After this you are left with a lot of emotions and you need to exorcise these out of your system, and I have come to the conclusion that the proper action here is a destruction ritual. But how many people would do this towards their mother?


As the son of a long dead alcoholic mother I've some idea where you may be coming from - but I'm not you, and I don't have the particulars of your situations.

I would say that it is probably quite healthy for you to have strong emotions in regard to this. Trying to repress them is in my experience not a good way to go.

But be aware that strong emotions and lashing out in anger may also cause some damage and unwanted emotional issues.

If it is a person that close as a mother or sibling, then I would doubt that the problem could be handled with one ritual alone. But I have no experience in this so others may be able to give more accurate information.
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While having never invented a sin, I'm trying to perfect several.

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#407718 - 01/05/10 04:17 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Phineas]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Very wise Magister Phineas, thank you for the response. I think this was the answer I had anticipated.
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#407719 - 01/05/10 04:19 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
Phineas Offline
CoS Magister

Registered: 08/16/06
Posts: 8274
You are quite welcome.
_________________________
"Consensus is the absence of leadership." Margaret Thatcher

"I'm fascinated with how primitive the human mind still is. It can be misdirected so easily." John Gaughan


"Success is uncommon. Therefore, not to be enjoyed by the common man." Cal Stoll

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#407721 - 01/05/10 04:24 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Callier]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Callier
Why not just have the person enroll in some drug program where they can get help to kick the habit? That would be the first thing I'd do.


Indeed it would be an option, but not something that would work for me as my view on a person taking drugs may differ from yours, but that is not to say you are wrong. I appreciate you saying that is what YOU would do and not telling me what I should do.

Originally Posted By: Callier
I would only report them to the police if the person stole something very valuable or caused major harm to me or him/herself.


Unfortunately I cannot seem to find it, but I have a feeling it is against the law not to report a witnessed crime. If anyone with a sound knowledge of law could back up or prove this wrong it would be most welcome. If I am wrong I apologise, but in my scenario I had written it on the assumption not to report it would be illegal.

Originally Posted By: Callier
But on the other hand, you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. If the person doesn't want to change then fuck em' and move on.


Indeed, but if the person is so close then there is a strong chance it will linger in your mind, in which case a ritual to rid yourself of over-thinking would be in order.


Edited by Skjalandir (01/05/10 04:26 PM)
Edit Reason: Error
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#407725 - 01/05/10 04:42 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: ]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Spelled Moon
There are usually more possibilities, how to proceed in solving problem, and I think it's always better to start with the ones which can solve things in more peaceful and effective way, if it still has sense (here for you, and for her).


The last part of this sentence is the point I think I had come to in my original thinking, in that things were beyond repair. Please excuse me for not being clear in the original post. Making a detailed thread and discussing it is a jump in the deep end for me.

Everything you have said is quite right though. Your final sentence reflects the other responses and leaves the whole thing open ended, which is the lesson I have taken from this thread...

Originally Posted By: Spelled Moon
Consider, if after years you spent together, you feel it's right to help her, or it's right to kick her.


The way I take this is although the first option may feel natural to one who has a strong sense of compassion, it may feel unnatural to another, thus rendering the approach ineffective.
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#407729 - 01/05/10 04:54 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: verszou]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Originally Posted By: Versouz
As the son of a long dead alcoholic mother I've some idea where you may be coming from - but I'm not you, and I don't have the particulars of your situations.

I would say that it is probably quite healthy for you to have strong emotions in regard to this. Trying to repress them is in my experience not a good way to go.

But be aware that strong emotions and lashing out in anger may also cause some damage and unwanted emotional issues.


I agree wholeheartedly. I now see the answer is not an out-and-out destruction ritual but one designed for the situation that allows the Satanist complete freedom from the situation. It would have to be specially crafted and extremely personalised.

I think Magister Phineas hit a hole in one on this.

Originally Posted By: Phineas
... a ritual could also be one designed to assist you in handling this.
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#407732 - 01/05/10 05:12 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: fire_vixen]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
I had to reply to your response last as I had a bit of a job working it all out until I realised it was an out-and-out discredit to my thread.

Originally Posted By: fire_vixen
It is exactly the same thing- the deer that is in pain and has seconds to live and a drug abuser. If there were clinics to help drug abusers then it would be different, but everyone knows there is no such thing.


The point you missed here was me explaining from a personal standpoint that I see drug-addiction as a death sentence to the person. That is not to say another person cannot see rehab as a possible solution. I am of the opinion that neither are wrong, but there are a thousand factors that bring me to how I think and what someone else thinks. It is not black and white.

Originally Posted By: fire_vixen
Of course it's not worth saving a drug abuser. They really are the lowest of the scum, ranking below child molesters, and animal killers.
And it doesn't matter if they are close to you or not. Forget your relationship with the person, forget whatever good they have done to you, forget whatever brought them to the point of drug abuse, forget all the context. All drug abusers should die, it's as simple as that.


I am pretty sure this is sarcasm, as you are ranking things worse than drug abuse above it, etc. Or are you saying you would not react as negatively to someone close to you being a paedophile or a person who kills animals for fun?

Please can you respond to my thread with your opinions written in a polite debating mannor instead of it being a wall of sarcasm?


Edited by Skjalandir (01/05/10 05:13 PM)
Edit Reason: Error
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#407733 - 01/05/10 05:29 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
Lust Offline


Registered: 11/02/05
Posts: 4214
This post reminds me of a scene from the movie Chopper.

Just after Chopper stabs another inmate several times ensuring death as a result, he then becomes emotional; offering a smoke and showing a mischievous remorse for his action.
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�Love is one of the most intense feelings felt by man; another is hate. Forcing yourself to feel indiscriminate love is very unnatural. If you try to love everyone you only lessen your feelings for those who deserve your love. Repressed hatred can lead to many physical and emotional aliments. By learning to release your hatred towards those who deserve it, you cleanse yourself of these malignant emotions and need not take your pent-up hatred out on your loved ones.�
Anton Szandor LaVey, The Satanic Bible

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#407739 - 01/05/10 05:41 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Callier]
ArtAche86 Offline


Registered: 10/24/08
Posts: 380
Loc: Cthulhu's Bowels,Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Callier

But on the other hand, you can't help people who don't want to help themselves. If the person doesn't want to change then fuck em' and move on.


Speaking from experience in this field,this is exactly correct.

ANY type of addiction (I don't care if it is licking bicycle seats)that will be ended,will only be done so if the addict WANTS to quit.Smoking cigarettes is a basic example.
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#407745 - 01/05/10 06:21 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
Callier Offline

CoS Warlock

Registered: 08/30/06
Posts: 2210
Originally Posted By: Skjalandir

but in my scenario I had written it on the assumption not to report it would be illegal.


If I was actually living with the person doing the drugs then I'd report it for the prevention of every adult in the household being accountable. Either that or I'd move out asap, depending on who the person is, the importance of the relationship and living situation.
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#407747 - 01/05/10 06:34 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
fire_vixen Offline


Registered: 08/31/07
Posts: 90
I didn't mean to offend you in any way. I was just somewhat surprised that you would look at this issue in this way- that you would even consider destroying your relative for their drug abuse. I am not telling you that you are wrong, because I obviously don't know the details of your situation. If in your mind you are fully justified in destroying them, then do it. If you are fine with doing away with them, then it's all that matters.

As for me though, the way I would look at it is I wouldn't judge the person's actions while they are on hard drugs too harshly. They have made a bad decision, yes, and it is that initial bad decision, and whatever had led to it that can be blamed. Their behavior afterwards is a direct result of the drug habit, and I wouldn't take anything they say to me under the influence too seriously. I know that drugs can make people do and say crazy things! The bottom line is if the person had previously been worthy of my love and respect, then I would probably help them.
I don't know about your case, if the person you loved could have done something so horrible that they would warrant destruction. I imagine that that is indeed possible.
It is you who would make the decision.

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#407769 - 01/05/10 08:40 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
TrojZyr Offline
CoS Witch

Registered: 07/25/01
Posts: 12990
Loc: The Solid State
Originally Posted By: Skjalandir
After this you are left with a lot of emotions and you need to exorcise these out of your system, and I have come to the conclusion that the proper action here is a destruction ritual. But how many people would do this towards their mother?


I'm not sure how common this is, but have you possibly considered a hybrid compassion/destruction ritual? It seems to me that complex emotions possibly require a more complex ritual to deal with them. Such a ritual would allow you to express your rage, hatred, and disdain, as well as your sadness, love, and regret.
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"Gentlemen, the verdict is guilty, on all ten counts of first-degree stupidity. The penalty phase will now begin."--Divine, "Pink Flamingos."

"The strong rule the weak, and the cunning rule over all." HS!

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#407770 - 01/05/10 09:00 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
Diwanna Offline


Registered: 01/19/09
Posts: 128
Loc: Upland
It's kind of been said above, but I don't think that your ritual has to be one of the big 3 mentioned in TSB. In my opinion, the ritual's purpose is to focus your physical and emotional energy to achieve a goal not otherwise achievable through normal means. Now I'm not or hopefully will ever be in the difficult position you're in, but this is how I'd approach it.

Write down what is going on, what your feelings are, and what your desired end result is. Then design your own ritual expressing those emotions and feeling and what you are trying to attain. Before you even begin the ritual, I think that you will have already jumped some tough emotional hurdles.

To me, a personal/solo ritual is always more rewarding when it is something that I've come up with myself, as opposed to "point your sword here, say this, shout 5 demonic names, do this, etc." I see how the big 3 have their place especially in group settings, but I can't really focus when I am worried about what I'm doing.

Anyways, best of luck with your situation.
_________________________
The Absence of God will bring you comfort. - Jenny Lewis

There is a point in which empirical evidence outweighs your faith. It is then when you must chose to open your eyes, or close them. - Diwanna

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#407825 - 01/06/10 01:30 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Lust]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
It's a bit early in the morning for Kung Fu innit Jim?


Edited by Skjalandir (01/06/10 02:26 PM)
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#407826 - 01/06/10 01:38 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: TrojZyr]
Skjalandir Offline


Registered: 12/07/09
Posts: 92
Loc: England
Indeed. I think that has wrapped the thread up. Either a hybrid-ritual or a series of rituals is the course of action, but not restricted too as there are hundreds of different choices. Obviously not my course of action, as the discussion was hypothetical and I do not find myself in this position. I just think it is good to hear wiser opinions on rituals, and I have gained some real gems of advice on here.

Hail Satan and thank you all for your thoughts.
_________________________
Einstein can't be classed as witless
He claimed atoms were the littlest
When you did a bit of splittingen-ness
Frighten everybody shitless
- Ian Dury

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#408685 - 01/13/10 11:27 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Skjalandir]
LordofDarkness Offline
CoS Member

Registered: 12/23/06
Posts: 760
Loc: Tennessee, U.S.
Reply has been sent to PM
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"Any group or collective, large or small, is only a number of individuals. A group can have no rights other than the rights of its individual members." - Ayn Rand

"Laws are there for a reason. You may not agree with them but you gotta obey them. Nobody wants to be in court." - Sonic the Hedgehog

"Satanism is not a white light religion; it is a religion of the flesh, the mundane, the carnal - all of which are ruled by Satan, the personification of the Left Hand Path." - Magus LaVey

"Test Everything, Believe Nothing." -

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#409654 - 01/21/10 07:30 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: LordofDarkness]
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
Skjalandir...honestly what you've said in this thread disgusts me. You would report a friend or family member, that you've known and been close to for years, to the authorities for something as harmless (to you) as smoking a joint? I understand that the CoS doesn't endorse illegal activity, but if you honestly believe and act this way...I don't see how you even have any friends. 0_o

Yes drugs are obviously really bad for your health, and though possible to be used in moderation as an indulgence, are overral quite bad and I don't use any, except for occasional alcohol socially. Throwing your "friend" in jail just for them having a substance that the state declares illegal, is pathetic...are you a total automaton?
Honestly, you're one of the sorts of people that are contributing to the in so many ways worsening conditions in developed countries; arbitrarily arresting, locking up, and brutalizing people just because they make the "wrong choice" that offends the theocrats that run the state. No, not because they commited an ACTUAL crime, like say, you know, physically harming you in some way, but because they owned something that a bunch of bearucrats and nannies (you being one of the nannies clearly) don't think they should have.

If you don't wanna use drugs yourself, fine, they are often a stupid and self-destructive desicision. If you want to forbid your children from using them, and advise your friends and family not to use them, good. Even using greater magic to get them to stop is great. But being a friggin' informant for the state and throwing them in prison...? I have no respect for you.

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#409655 - 01/21/10 07:31 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Liberterius]
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
Seriously, make your own decisions...no one is forcing you to call the cops, you act like a gun is to your head. Why betray your spouse like that?!

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#409665 - 01/21/10 08:08 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: Liberterius]
TheAbysmal Offline


Registered: 09/22/06
Posts: 1024
It would be self indulgence.

In my estimation, it could be rational self indulgence or not.

It just depends on circumstances that may not be apparent to you or I. I think Magister Phineas' reply--the first one--says just about that.

For all you know, Skjalandir may very well be withholding information. Maybe Skjalandir's spouse invited a living hell into the marriage with drug addiction and all it entails. It can. It can even be painful enough to want to seek revenge.

On the other hand, it can be concerning enough to want to seek compassion.

Skjalandir invited the opinions of others. In that respect, yours is no worse than any others'. But, if anyone would give the opinion of another any credence, it might make sense to more carefully consider the opinions of those who demonstrably got it together.

Your remarks amount nearly to an attack, not itself a necessarily bad thing.

Magister Phineas' remarks amount to a wise scrutiny of the situation. He did not have enough information from Skjalandir, his own experience, or both to say either way for sure.

It is okay to judge. It is sometimes necessary to judge.

It is okay to have not* all the information.

It is necessary to admit it, though, to avoid incorrect judgement, when it happens or the next time it could. wink

-------
*Almost split that one!
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Refuse to die.

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#409667 - 01/21/10 08:19 PM Re: Using rituals in regards to drug-abuses [Re: TheAbysmal]
Liberterius Offline


Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 241
With all due respect, Magister Phineas seemed to be giving his opinion only the ritual itself, not on Skjalandir's persecution of his friends and family. (which is what I was talking about)
Regarding ritual, I would say it'd probably be a compassion ritual, to help someone break an addiction, and I'm not doubting that doing something like that could the right action.

And I think I do have enough information to judge his hypothetical action; he's punishing his friends and/or family for something that isn't aggression against him.

NOW, if his friend had stabbed him in the back, and this was some sort of revenge, that MAY be different, and that would be a situation in which my judgement may be different.
But he didn't say it was anything of the sort, and in general throwing you friend in prison just because nosy bureaucrats tell you to is a horrible decision, and one worthy of attack.

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#409668 - 01/21/10 08:44 PM Curious? [Re: Liberterius]
Unknown Offline
Unknown

Registered: 03/31/05
Posts: 1649
Have you ever had to deal with a family member or friend who was using illegal substances around you?
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#409670 - 01/21/10 08:47 PM Re: Curious? [Re: Unknown]
Quaark Offline

CoS Reverend

Registered: 08/22/03
Posts: 8898
This thread has gone on long enough and is no longer serving a useful purpose. Locked.

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